Damar Hamlin - Now (1/11/2023) discharged from Buf Gen & “recovering at home”

[Big Turk]

 

 

[Jeffbigalls]

4 minutes is the crucial timeframe.

After 4 minutes without oxygen rich blood flowing to the brain, cells begin to die and anoxic brain Injury occurs.

 He received immediate medical attention,  and all you can do is pray that he will be ok.

[Reed83HOF]

15 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

It's her. She is a retired reporter, not a doctor and IMO incredibly misguided in posting some study with conditions completely unlike what happened to Hamlin. 

it was a retweet from a reporter from the Athletic, who everyone basically involved in the NFL (Eisen, Banner, Trask, Rappaport, Breer, Pro Football Doc, etc.  also follows. So this "misguided" "some study" is tied to him, she simply retweeted it with one stat. 

 

 

[Demongyz]

6 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I just went to go get one myself and the smallest size they have left is a 2XL. Incredible levels of Support being shown

Great news!

 

I'm 2XL. Ordered.

[pennstate10]

52 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

How do you know that in the other 90% of the cases there was a delay of medical attention and AED in those cases?

 

 

 

 

Reading comprehension my friend.

34 (half) of the cases were informal at a private home.

 

You know anyone who has an AED at home?

 

Didnt think so.

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, BruceVilanch said:

And unless you've been in a situation where you've witnessed active CPR and the use of an AED there's no way to prepare for seeing it the first time. It's violent and scary, I feel really bad for those guys having to watch it happen to their brother, thank God they started compressions quickly. If you have an opportunity, learn CPR and how to use an AED. Love to all my bills family, still feeling pretty numb. Praying for damar

 

This This This.

 

And if you don't have the opportunity, please try to create the opportunity.  The Red Cross and many hospitals have classes; some will come to your business or club and teach a class for a minimum number of people.  Workplaces that have AEDs usually have an emergency squad, find out and ask to join.

[Reed83HOF]

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Yea, I think mixed news today, but any progress is huge… hopefully the oxygen numbers are a step towards life, and figuring the rest out from there. Also felt good to read cautious optimism shared with the team.

 

I hope the progress continues. The real progress is over the next day or 2 as they begin to wake him up and it is up to his body to control and maintain the vitals. THis is a small step forward so far....here's to hoping that it continues over the next couple days 🍺🍻

[Joe Ferguson forever]

36 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Ages ranged from 1 to 38 (mean 12) with 70% < 16 years old

 

not all were kids...

 

She retweeted it from Dan Kaplan who is a writer for The Athletic, who is followed by every Farrar, Rappaport, Jim Nagy, Dr. Chao, Amy Trask, Joe Banner, Breer, Pete Prisco, Shcefter, Peter King, Rich Eisen etc... and added the part of the study that showed the mortality rate of the 69 people included in the study

The major problem with this study is that it's extremely small.  69 is a tiny number to make conclusions on but it's by necessity as it's rare.   No drug would ever be approved on a trial of 69 subjects. 30% of 69 is about 20 so there were only 20 patients over 16yo.  Those over 20, especially an NFL player have more "armor" around their heart than the average 16 yo, armor meaning chest muscles.  Damar has much more armor than the average 20 yo. Finally, it's a retrospective study (by necessity also) means looking backward at results , not getting results from a designed study.  These studies are low powered.  For all these reasons, I wouldn't put much stock in the numbers for Damar Hamlin's case.  And what the mechanism was, is still unknown (at least to the public).

Edited January 4, 2023 by redtail hawk

[aceman_16]

14 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

 

 

Reading comprehension my friend.

34 (half) of the cases were informal at a private home.

 

You know anyone who has an AED at home?

 

Didnt think so.

I do...but I am a doctor who had an elderly relative living with me.

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, redtail hawk said:

The major problem with this study is that it's extremely small.  69 is a tiny number to make conclusions on but it's by necessity as it's rare.   No drug would ever be approved on a trial of 69 subjects. 30% of 69 is about 20 so there were only 20 patients over 16yo.  Those over 20, especially an NFL player have more "armor" around their heart than the average 16 yo, armor meaning chest muscles.  Damar has much more armor than the average 20 yo.  For all these reasons, I wouldn't put much stock in the numbers for Damar Hamlin's case.  And what the mechanism was, is still unknown (at least to the public).

 

The population size is small and that makes it really difficult to gleam much insight from. Working in the manufacturing and R&D of medical device field for 20+ years - you are correct in regards to that trial size. The force of the collisions you will experience in today's NFL (Bigger, faster, stronger than ever before) from people who also have "armor" also has to factor into it. He may have more armor to absorb, but tHiggins also has more armor than your average 20yr old as well.

 

I'm not a physicist, to be able to accurately calculate the force, nor am I a physician or A&P professor who may have the information as to how much force is necessary during a blunt trama event to the chest to distrupt his T wave at that exact moment either. I would expect that this would be a more violent collision than 16 or 20 yr olds who are not playing NFL Football. For all we know, the force of the collision could have been the same as a line drive to an unprotected chest. 

 

CC is most likely what occured - IIRC, he was hit in the chest...

 

In any event, this is just awful and I hope for a good chance of recovery for him

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

Oh, Lori, No No Girlfriend, Don't do that, don't go there.

 

First of all, as several have commented or linked tweets by doctors commenting, we don't yet know that it was Commotio Cordis.  It's one possibility, but there are others.

 

Second, These are two manuscripts from 1997 and 1998.  A lot has changed since then in emergency medicine and in competitive sports.

 

This is the more recent study we want

https://www.heartrhythmjournal.com/article/S1547-5271(12)01254-4/fulltext

 

Quote

For the initial years (1970-1993), 6 of 59 cases survived (10%), while during 1994-2012, 54 of 157 (34%) survived (P = .001). The most recent 6 years, survival from commotio cordis was 31 of 53 (58%), with survivor and nonsurvivor curves ultimately crossing. Higher survival rates were associated with more prompt resuscitation (40%<3 minutes vs 5%>3 minutes; P<.001) and participation in competitive sports (39%; P<.001)

 

Quote

Conclusions:  Survival from commotio cordis has increased, likely owing to more rapid response times and access to defibrillation, as well as greater public awareness of this condition.

 

Damar Hamlin had everything that leads to a better outcome going for him: Immediate CPR, immediate oxygen administration, immediate use of an AED (automated external defibrillator. 

 

His odds are likely to be even better than the 58% given for more recent 6 years.

 

No, no. Don't toss around statistics from the land of "Someone Did My Own Research and came up with a Thing"  God Bless Us Every One who try to educate ourselves, but the flaw is when you're not in that field, you don't necessarily see all the publications, you aren't able to put the results in context and critically evaluate the big picture.

[ghostwriter]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Damar Hamlin had everything that leads to a better outcome going for him: Immediate CPR, immediate oxygen administration, immediate use of an AED (automated external defibrillator. 

 

His odds are likely to be even better than the 58% given for more recent 6 years.

 

No, no. Don't toss around statistics from the land of "Someone Did My Own Research and came up with a Thing"  God Bless Us Every One who try to educate ourselves, but the flaw is when you're not in that field, you don't necessarily see all the publications, you aren't able to put the results in context and critically evaluate the big picture.

Thing that scares me is that he’s been in a medically induced coma for almost a full day now.. Anything beyond that point worries me even further.

[CorkScrewHill]

Can we have a separate thread for arm chair and even actual doctors who are not treating Damar where they can post their studies / opinions that may or may not have anything to do with Damar's case. The doctor's treating him haven't even stated the cause yet.

 

It can be called "Damar Hamlin and my random analysis of his condition". We could then have this one be updates that come from people that are actually close to his case as well as the good stories about who he is and how he has impacted people. It would prevent wading through 16 new pages made up of 50% people puking on others best guesses as to what is wrong with Damar.

[DrPJax]

5 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

This is an extremely comprehensive group , collection of medical personnel, even including an anesthesiologist for intubation ( every dr on this team can intubate but some airways in large people with thick necks are difficult to intubate so having an anesthesiologist who does difficult airways all day is just great,next level preparation!)   I do think , and have posted my thoughts on this, the independent neuro guys are possibly understaffed as the game moves too quickly for these limited numbers to adequately see the field areas where concussions will likely happen, but this shows really great preparation for almost any on field incident!  Only thing I see missing is an ob/gyn in case a female ref or sideline person goes into labor and has a history of quick deliveries!  Lol!  Seriously , this is prep I never knew about and its why Damar is alive and has a chance to recover   Really great preplanning for a violent , collision sport  NFL has done this well 

 

[SCBills]

Not going to lie … I’ve never once, in my entire life, worried that a hard hit to the chest could kill me. 
 

Id venture to guess that 99% of these players never have either ..  that mental hurdle of hitting someone & getting hit, is going to take a minute to move past. 

[TheBrownBear]

3 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Thing that scares me is that he’s been in a medically induced coma for almost a full day now.. Anything beyond that point worries me even further.

It's a standard procedure after any cardiac arrest.  They did the same thing to my Dad who was pulseless for 12 minutes.  He's still with us and surprisingly no worse for wear.

[Beck Water]

26 minutes ago, redtail hawk said:

The major problem with this study is that it's extremely small.  69 is a tiny number to make conclusions on but it's by necessity as it's rare.   No drug would ever be approved on a trial of 69 subjects. 30% of 69 is about 20 so there were only 20 patients over 16yo.  Those over 20, especially an NFL player have more "armor" around their heart than the average 16 yo, armor meaning chest muscles.  Damar has much more armor than the average 20 yo. Finally, it's a retrospective study (by necessity also) means looking backward at results , not getting results from a designed study.  These studies are low powered.  For all these reasons, I wouldn't put much stock in the numbers for Damar Hamlin's case.  And what the mechanism was, is still unknown (at least to the public).

 

As far as recognized cases of Commotio Cordis, never going to get a large number because it is rare. 

 

The problem I have is that the study referenced from 1998 appears to be superceded by a more recent study showing much improved survival rates of recent years.  It's sort of like citing 1998 HIV survival rates in the face of much improved available treatments. 

 

6 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Can we have a separate thread for arm chair and even actual doctors who are not treating Damar where they can post their studies / opinions that may or may not have anything to do with Damar's case. The doctor's treating him haven't even stated the cause yet.

 

It can be called "Damar Hamlin and my random analysis of his condition". We could then have this one be updates that come from people that are actually close to his case as well as the good stories about who he is and how he has impacted people. It would prevent wading through 16 new pages made up of 50% people puking on others best guesses as to what is wrong with Damar.

 

Sure, you can have that, provided you put posts regurgitating random tweets from random reporters retweeting stats and studies that elicit the vomitus reaction there too.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by Beck Water

[Saint Doug]

There’s was a very nice tribute to Damar tonight at the Caps game. 

[MasterStrategist]

3 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Can we have a separate thread for arm chair and even actual doctors who are not treating Damar where they can post their studies / opinions that may or may not have anything to do with Damar's case. The doctor's treating him haven't even stated the cause yet.

 

It can be called "Damar Hamlin and my random analysis of his condition". We could then have this one be updates that come from people that are actually close to his case as well as the good stories about who he is and how he has impacted people. It would prevent wading through 16 new pages made up of 50% people puking on others best guesses as to what is wrong with Damar.

Agree, and I mentioned up thread that speculation is not desirable. 

 

However, it is helpful to understand what to expect (timing of more info) and what next steps could be / possible causes.

 

Living in Pittsburgh area, Allegheny Health Network (along with UPMC - Steeler team provider group) are the top hospital systems.  Below are two articles, which provide key information without trying to speculate/specifically diagnose Hamlin:

https://triblive.com/sports/next-24-hours-critical-to-hamlin-recovery-experts-say/

 

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/health/2023/01/03/damar-hamlin-cardiac-arrest-causes-heart-rhythm/stories/202301030101

 

 

 

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

10 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

The population size is small and that makes it really difficult to gleam much insight from. Working in the manufacturing and R&D of medical device field for 20+ years - you are correct in regards to that trial size. The force of the collisions you will experience in today's NFL (Bigger, faster, stronger than ever before) from people who also have "armor" also has to factor into it. He may have more armor to absorb, but tHiggins also has more armor than your average 20yr old as well.

 

I'm not a physicist, to be able to accurately calculate the force, nor am I a physician or A&P professor who may have the information as to how much force is necessary during a blunt trama event to the chest to distrupt his T wave at that exact moment either. I would expect that this would be a more violent collision than 16 or 20 yr olds who are not playing NFL Football. For all we know, the force of the collision could have been the same as a line drive to an unprotected chest. 

 

CC is most likely what occured - IIRC, he was hit in the chest...

 

In any event, this is just awful and I hope for a good chance of recovery for him

I found an article this morning that actually estimated the forces necessary to provoke the arrhythmia (I'm retired now so lots of time and interest, especially in this young man).  They did work on animal models as well.  Other variables included hardness of the object, position of contact (over the left ventricle was worst), age and I forget the other.  But again, 69 is an extremely low number on which to draw conclusions.  One reason I'm skeptical of the diagnosis was that at autopsy, these patients had no or little damage to the heart muscle.  Why would Damar arrest again without another blow to the chest if that were the mechanism?  There are possible explanations but it begs the question.  Finally, it looks like newer studies show closer to a 60% survival but it's not as simple as averaging the various studies.