Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

[Talleywhacker]

6 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

6 hours ago, balln said:

 

If we can live in hindsight we would have HOF level players at every position.  You make the decision with the information you have at the time.

This

 

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

The 2020 draft was excellent. We came away with:

 

-A top 5 at his position #1 WR

-A strong #3 WR with vertical traits

-One of the best and most clutch kickers in the league

-An adequate #2 CB

-A rotational/situational pass rusher

 

If you don't think that's a great haul you're not being realistic.

 

Each position has its ramp up time.  Knox didn’t start to break out until year3 which is not uncommon for TE’s.

 

The D Linemen for every role player like AJE, and Basham, you have a GROOT, Von, Settle, D Jones, Shaq (our 3rd best DE this year), Oliver coming out, and Jordan Phillips.  That is one hellova talented line!  They’ve covered up for some injured D Backs.  We are now outside of Hyde getting healthy.

 

The draft isn’t Madden.  Look at Cook on offense now vs the beginning of the year.  Gabe is a solid 3rd, but objectively we need a true #2.  This is why I hoped for a healthy OBJ.  We need to rely on 21, and 11 personnel.

[BBills_88]

Allow him to continue to develope. 

Let him, battle it out in the off-season & training camp with other D Ends.

[ArtVandalay]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I also wish Beane would pull the trigger on trades more. Wish we got Von in the trade that LA pulled off last year. I think we have a trophy if he did that.

Could you imagine if we had CMC? Good lord.  But instead we get to pick another Boogie Basham next year. 

6 hours ago, Matt_In_NH said:

If we can live in hindsight we would have HOF level players at every position.  You make the decision with the information you have at the time.

And at the time Oliver was an undersized "high motor" guy, the exact opposite of what you are looking for at the top of the draft when you have an assembly line of protptype size and physical ability to pick from. 

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

I want him to be good, but he isn’t…

 

….just like when we picked Tony Hunter before Jim Kelly…

 

[ProcessTruster]

7 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

but boy did they hit on that one....

[QCity]

Considering Creed Humphrey was there? Yes.

[cba fan]

Yes. Also, the Epenesa pick.

[ganesh]

7 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

As of this time yes he’s not living up to a second round draft pick
 

I mean for chrissake Kingsley, who I didn’t even know who it was came in and made an immediate impact

against the Bears !

5 minutes ago, cba fan said:

Yes. Also, the Epenesa pick.

Epenesa has 6.5 sacks for this season.  With the Bills rotating their DL very aggressively, we are never likely to have 10-15 sack season from your backup DE.

 

I think AJ has filled in well for Miller.

 

Did the Bills whifff on getting a Blue chip player - Yes 

Did the Bills whiff on getting a solid player - No

[John from Riverside]

21 minutes ago, ganesh said:

against the Bears !

Epenesa has 6.5 sacks for this season.  With the Bills rotating their DL very aggressively, we are never likely to have 10-15 sack season from your backup DE.

 

I think AJ has filled in well for Miller.

 

Did the Bills whifff on getting a Blue chip player - Yes 

Did the Bills whiff on getting a solid player - No

I really don’t even think that they wiffed on getting the blue chip player because they did get Russo. I just would like to see more out of Basham.

[wppete]

For a second round pick he is definitely a disappointment so far. Hopefully he turns it around. 

[davefan66]

7 hours ago, CountDorkula said:

Just because one player turns out doesn’t mean the other player shouldn’t feel pressure to.  
 

It was and has always been a bad pick in terms of positional need, player, resources used on the position etc. 

 

My point was Groot, good or bad, takes the pressure off of Basham to perform.

 

Basham does what he’s asked to do.  In the rotation with other guys as part of our scheme. Dline play doesn’t drop off when he’s in.  He’s played well.

 

Now if AJ and Boogie played more downs, one could perceive they’d have better stats. That’s not this Dline. Rotation is.

[mjt328]

4 hours ago, HappyDays said:

The 2020 draft was excellent. We came away with:

 

-A top 5 at his position #1 WR

-A strong #3 WR with vertical traits

-One of the best and most clutch kickers in the league

-An adequate #2 CB

-A rotational/situational pass rusher

 

If you don't think that's a great haul you're not being realistic.

 

My standard for a "good" draft is emerging with three NFL starters (meaning players who would be in the starting lineup on MOST of the 32 teams).

- Any draft where the 1st Rounder doesn't eventually start is a massive failure.  No exceptions.

- A GM should be able to find success with either his 2nd or 3rd Rounder.

- That leaves one additional starter in either the final 4 rounds or undrafted free agency.

 

This regime succeeded in doing this in 2017 (White, Dawkins, Milano), 2018 (Allen, Edmunds, Phillips, Johnson, Teller) and 2019 (Oliver, Singletary, Knox).  They are the foundation for why this team has become one of the NFL's top franchises. 

 

Unfortunately, the 2020 draft does not measure up to those standards.  Stefon Diggs was obviously a huge hit.  But he's really the only solid starter we got.  Gabe Davis showed promise, but has disappointed in what was supposed to be his big breakout season.  Everyone is calling for Dane Jackson to be replaced, and I don't think he starts on most teams.  AJ Epenesa is also a backup.  Tyler Bass was a nice grab, but I don't like to count kickers.

 

2021 is looking iffy so far.  Greg Rousseau looks like a hit.  Spencer Brown has been inconsistent.  Damar Hamlin has been up and down with his big opportunity.  Boogie Basham will be lucky to reach the Epenesa's level at this point.  But like I said, I'll give them until Year 3.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, cba fan said:

Yes. Also, the Epenesa pick.

Actually, Epenesa starting to come on 6 1/2 sacks in a heavy line rotation is not bad

[Nitro]

Context is important in assessing a draft pick and his performance.  Bills needed to build up the pass rush.  That draft the talent at DE was lean and dropped off after the second round.  He is performing as well as I thought he would.  The plan pre-Von Miller was to rotate DE to rush the passer.  Look at those guys drafted after him and there are very few standouts.

[cDAVIS]

11 hours ago, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

They've had a top 2-5 defense every year but one. Without Allen they even went to the playoffs. What are you even talking about?

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

 

My standard for a "good" draft is emerging with three NFL starters (meaning players who would be in the starting lineup on MOST of the 32 teams).

- Any draft where the 1st Rounder doesn't eventually start is a massive failure.  No exceptions.

- A GM should be able to find success with either his 2nd or 3rd Rounder.

- That leaves one additional starter in either the final 4 rounds or undrafted free agency.

 

This regime succeeded in doing this in 2017 (White, Dawkins, Milano), 2018 (Allen, Edmunds, Phillips, Johnson, Teller) and 2019 (Oliver, Singletary, Knox).  They are the foundation for why this team has become one of the NFL's top franchises. 

 

Unfortunately, the 2020 draft does not measure up to those standards.  Stefon Diggs was obviously a huge hit.  But he's really the only solid starter we got.  Gabe Davis showed promise, but has disappointed in what was supposed to be his big breakout season.  Everyone is calling for Dane Jackson to be replaced, and I don't think he starts on most teams.  AJ Epenesa is also a backup.  Tyler Bass was a nice grab, but I don't like to count kickers.

 

2021 is looking iffy so far.  Greg Rousseau looks like a hit.  Spencer Brown has been inconsistent.  Damar Hamlin has been up and down with his big opportunity.  Boogie Basham will be lucky to reach the Epenesa's level at this point.  But like I said, I'll give them until Year 3.

 

 

I mostly agree but I think junky need to take into account draft position.  So while Dane Jackson might not be a starting caliber CB, a solid depth player is pretty good value for a 7th round pick.   You can say the same thing about Hamlin as a 5th rounder.  
 

Conversely that’s what makes Boogie kind of a disappointing pick as a 2nd rounder.
 

 

[Richard Noggin]

Skipped ahead from page 2 to wonder aloud if the Bills have taken yet another power-based college edge rusher who projected more naturally as a DE/DT flex guy (and in Epenesa's case, a solid 3-4 5-tech DE)...and asked him to dramatically redesign his body and his game to fit as a svelte DE in our 4-3, 1-gapping defense. 

 

Basham's ceiling appears to be Shaq Lawson, which is funny. But also valuable.  

[JohnBonhamRocks]

Dudes got an 86 speed in Madden so that’s cool.

[Thurman#1]

12 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

 

 

No, for me the disappointment is that some people simply refuse to get it.

 

"It" being that evaluating picks too early is a ridiculous mistake.

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Thurman#1