Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

[NastyNateSoldiers]

34 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

I will just remind a few of you so-called draft-niks that one Bill Belichick is a lousy drafter. I honestly cannot think of a single draft that he nailed, yet they have what? Six freakin’ Super Bowl rings. Eleven AFC Championships.

 

Thus far, I do not believe McDermott and Beane have screwed the pooch drafting as badly as Belichick routinely has. They clearly have missed on second rounders, though. That said, I’ll take a championship run like the Pats had every day and twice on Sundays coupled with mediocre drafts if that’s what it takes.

Call that the Brady affect! 

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I have, and he’s not playing like a guy we should invest a ton of money into long term.   Especially given the position he plays.  
 

Go terrorize Burrow and we can start having that conversation.   Im not terribly impressed when he bullies backup interior linemen. 
 

Not my money, but it’s the team I root for.. and they have to operate under a somewhat malleable salary cap. 

This is kind of where I’m at with Oliver. He had really good games against the Lions and Bears. The Lions were without both starting guards and the Bears oline is just horrific. I’m happy about the performances, but it hardly inspires a ton of sustained confidence  

[uticaclub]

11 hours ago, cDAVIS said:

They've had a top 2-5 defense every year but one. Without Allen they even went to the playoffs. What are you even talking about?

We had a #1 defense with Marrone. Where did that take us?

[SCBills]

4 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I think they would like to keep Oliver, but if we pay edmunds, we are starting to really deep dive into some big extensions on both sides of the ball. We can’t pay everyone. Someone is going to get left out. 
 

My guess is Oliver and Davis aren’t in the long-term plans. Take Cinci…DJ Reader is totally disruptive and he was taken in the fifth round. I think you can find someone like that to replace Oliver later on. Heck…I think DaQuan Jones was a 4th rounder. 
 

As for Davis…I’m fine with trading him, but I can also see value in keeping him. I don’t think a first round rookie WR would be completely ready to be handed the job, and competing with Davis for a year could make for a great situation for us. 

Yea, Davis I’m more torn on.  
 

Oliver actually has to start doing something in big games before I want him back.. even on a 5th year option. 
 

Davis, while he’s been pretty frustrating, always has the potential to go off, and while he could probably get us back some nice draft capital (2 and change?), that’s putting a lot on what may end up

being Diggs, who knows at slot and some rookies. 

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Yea, Davis I’m more torn on.  
 

Oliver actually has to start doing something in big games before I want him back.. even on a 5th year option. 
 

Davis, while he’s been pretty frustrating, always has the potential to go off, and while he could probably get us back some nice draft capital (2 and change?), that’s putting a lot on what may end up

being Diggs, who knows at slot and some rookies. 

Yeah I definitely see value in bringing Davis back. I think their hand is somewhat forced after largely ignoring the WR position for a few years. If they had a viable option behind Davis I’d say get something for him, because I don’t think they will pay both him and Diggs. I just really hope they go all out in fortifying the WR room this off-season. 

[Einstein's Dog]

4 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Yeah…and knowing Beane, he’d flip that pick into another DT selection. He just can’t help himself. Hopefully, if that’s the case, it’s after we spend a first on an offensive weapon for our franchise qb. 

You continually devalue the worth of an excellent Defensive Line.  The FO has done a stellar job, and just like this OP, you try to find a negative aspect.  You fail to see the forest from the trees.  This particular DL when healthy was in the discussion of all time Bills best.

 

On Monday one of the biggest advantages in this game is the Bills defensive line winning the battle in the trenches.  It seems reasonable that Cincy will have to adjust their game plan to account for the mismatch with Groot.  And that forced adjustment alone is worth a lot.

 

And while it seems understandable people can bemoan the Boogie over Creed pick.  I don't think very many would be willing to trade Groot for Creed.

[uticaclub]

21 hours ago, Rigotz said:

 

This statement is disappointing, but it's even worse that 7 people liked it. New fans, I guess.

 

Tyler Bass drafted in the 6th ... bad kicker?

Matt Milano drafted in the 5th ... bad linebacker?

Gabriel Davis drafted in the 4th ... zero value?

Dawson Knox drafted in the 3rd ... bad Tight End?

Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde brought in as cheap free agents ... bad players?

You might not like Ed Oliver, Devin Singletary, Tremaine Edmunds, and Greg Rousseau, but NONE were busts.

Trading a 1st round pick for Stefon Diggs ... bad move? He's nothing special?

Playoff drought streak broken WITHOUT Josh Allen .... coincidence?

 

This type of ungrateful BS and throwing all the love in the world at Josh Allen and saying he's the only reason we're good needs to stop. Does Josh Allen play defense? Because we're a top 5 defense almost every year with McDermott and Beane.

 

GTFO...

 

 

Gabe Davis is awful and holds the offense back. Knox is nothing special and not worth his contract. Poyer & Hyde were signed by Whaley. We missed the playoffs with a #1 defense with Marrone. This team is good but not great, i know no one bats 1.000 but no one also missed every move. Our 2nd & 3rd round drafting has been terrible with way too many misses in Free Agency

[whorlnut]

7 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You continually devalue the worth of an excellent Defensive Line.  The FO has done a stellar job, and just like this OP, you try to find a negative aspect.  You fail to see the forest from the trees.  This particular DL when healthy was in the discussion of all time Bills best.

 

On Monday one of the biggest advantages in this game is the Bills defensive line winning the battle in the trenches.  It seems reasonable that Cincy will have to adjust their game plan to account for the mismatch with Groot.  And that forced adjustment alone is worth a lot.

 

And while it seems understandable people can bemoan the Boogie over Creed pick.  I don't think very many would be willing to trade Groot for Creed.

How is Creed over Rousseau relevant to anything?

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Gabe Davis is awful and holds the offense back. Knox is nothing special and not worth his contract. Poyer & Hyde were signed by Whaley. We missed the playoffs with a #1 defense with Marrone. This team is good but not great, i know no one bats 1.000 but no one also missed every move. Our 2nd & 3rd round drafting has been terrible with way too many misses in Free Agency

Davis isn’t awful. Not even close. Is he a little disappointing?  Perhaps. But he’s not awful. I will say that I think many got a little greedy after the game he had against the chiefs last year, but that hasn’t been sustained this year. But he’s nowhere near awful like you say. 
 

Knox has been asked to block more this year to help mask a disappointing oline. That’s on Beane IMO. He definitively misjudged the line and I expect him to make it right this off-season and allow knox to be more of a playmaker like he was last year. 

[uticaclub]

3 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

How is Creed over Rousseau relevant to anything?

Davis isn’t awful. Not even close. Is he a little disappointing?  Perhaps. But he’s not awful. I will say that I think many got a little greedy after the game he had against the chiefs last year, but that hasn’t been sustained this year. But he’s nowhere near awful like you say. 
 

Knox has been asked to block more this year to help mask a disappointing oline. That’s on Beane IMO. He definitively misjudged the line and I expect him to make it right this off-season and allow knox to be more of a playmaker like he was last year. 

Davis catches the ball like an alligator and has no awareness. I agree with Knox he has the potential and does what he is asked but you dont pay a TE that contract to play that role

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You continually devalue the worth of an excellent Defensive Line.  The FO has done a stellar job, and just like this OP, you try to find a negative aspect.  You fail to see the forest from the trees.  This particular DL when healthy was in the discussion of all time Bills best.

 

On Monday one of the biggest advantages in this game is the Bills defensive line winning the battle in the trenches.  It seems reasonable that Cincy will have to adjust their game plan to account for the mismatch with Groot.  And that forced adjustment alone is worth a lot.

 

And while it seems understandable people can bemoan the Boogie over Creed pick.  I don't think very many would be willing to trade Groot for Creed.

Beane has some blind spots, but I’d agree that it should be noted that Buffalo (even without Von) likely has the advantage in the trenches against Cinci.  
 

I’d take Rousseau, Oliver, Jones, Shaq and our rotational guys against their OL over Hendrickson, Hubbard, Reader and co. against our OL. 
 

Some people here think our OL is terrible .. and it’s really not.   When healthy, and we’re healthy this week, Morse & Dawkins are above average, Bates is probably playing at an above average level since mid-season as well.  Saffold and Brown are the weak spots, but we can run the ball and provide adequate protection for Allen.  Not great.. but it’s adequate. 
 

Cinci invested in their OL, and they’ve gotten better as the season has gone on, but is still somewhat suspect and while Collins isn’t great.. this is the first week they won’t have their starting five together. 
 

These are the games we expect our investment and depth on the DL to show up.   
 

Hopefully Frazier doesn’t play soft, because we’ll never know if we can rattle Burrow if we allow him quick, easy throws all game. 

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Davis catches the ball like an alligator and has no awareness. I agree with Knox he has the potential and does what he is asked but you dont pay a TE that contract to play that role

Yeah it’s maddening watching Davis catch the ball. His hand placement is terrible. It wasn’t an issue before this year though. 
 

As for knox…I don’t think it was planned for him to be used like this. I think the short-comings of the oline have forced them to use him this way. Beane will make it right this off-season and knox will be used the way they envisioned next season. 

[Roundybout]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:46 AM, uticaclub said:

If Allen is a bust, McDermott & Beane aren't here in 2022. This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

We are 12-3 and currently the top AFC seed.

18 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Gabe Davis is awful and holds the offense back. Knox is nothing special and not worth his contract. Poyer & Hyde were signed by Whaley. We missed the playoffs with a #1 defense with Marrone. This team is good but not great, i know no one bats 1.000 but no one also missed every move. Our 2nd & 3rd round drafting has been terrible with way too many misses in Free Agency

Knox is fantastic if our moron OC would use him in a role beyond blocking every play. And I wouldn’t call Davis awful by any means. He’s a WR3 with WR2 upside.

[Solomon Grundy]

YES!!

 

[IndyMark]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

There are some guys in your defense of tackle list that I would not take over Oliver

That is intriguing.  Yet, I simply cannot imagine that being a common thought, at least for those that watch each Bills game.

 

In retrospect we passed on 2 DL studs to land Oliver and, yes, hindsight is 20/20. So, I truly hope he lives up to his billing, but his body of work just does not lend itself to that thinking. I wonder how many more seasons (or how much money we spend) in crossing our fingers that he evolves into a disruptive force?

 

 

1 hour ago, Turbo44 said:

Oliver for a 2nd?  I think you'd have 31 teams jump at that.

I would take that in a millisecond; it would be great if 31 teams would take that and I would then target those top 10 drafting teams next year and put Ed out there.  However, likely it would be, maybe 5-6 teams considering and likely only 1-2 whom would literally pull the trigger on that trade; if that.

 

[Da webster guy]

On 12/30/2022 at 11:46 AM, balln said:

Ed Oliver pick was bad. Go look at that draft and see what they passed up DL/D wise 

 

I'm assuming this is a joke.  Ed is playing great ball for us right now.

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

His picks have been terrible. He's a terrible drafter. That's why your comment is so strange.

 

The Pats won because BB is a GOAT coach and Brady is a GOAT QB.  They didn't win because they sucked at drafting.  The Pats winning formula wasn't:

 

Suck at drafting

????

Win Superbowls

 

So I'm not sure what you're trying to say about it being a good thing.

The 2 of the first 3 SB was from good drafting.. (Ty Law, Wilfolk, McGinest, etc)  They stayed competitive from both drafting and using draft capital to get good players (like Moss  for a 4th and Welker for a 2nd and a 7th). Bad drafting/ unwilling to trade picks could make your team stagnant or keep you just short of the promise land of a SB. 

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

The 2 of the first 3 SB was from good drafting.. (Ty Law, Wilfolk, McGinest, etc)  They stayed competitive from both drafting and using draft capital to get good players (like Moss  for a 4th and Welker for a 2nd and a 7th). Bad drafting/ unwilling to trade picks could make your team stagnant or keep you just short of the promise land of a SB. 

???

 

Ty Law was drafted in 1995. Milloy/Bruschi in 1996. Parcells picks.

 

Falk and Woody were from the Carroll era.

Vrabel was drafted by the Steelers.

 

Wilfork was drafted in 2004 (after the first two SuperBowls).

 

Guys like Seymour, Matt Light, Asante were all BB picks.

 

BB was the best at drafting OL and DB/LB.  A pretty good combo when you have the GOAT QB who can make any bum look good and can always play with a lead.

 

Wanna hear some fun stats?

 

Since 2005, these are BB's offensive skill players who were drafted and made 1x ProBowl

 

Gronk (TE)

Mac Jones (QB)

 

WITH THE BEST QB IN FOOTBALL!

 

 

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

On 12/30/2022 at 2:35 PM, Rigotz said:

 

This statement is disappointing, but it's even worse that 7 people liked it. New fans, I guess.

 

Tyler Bass drafted in the 6th ... bad kicker?

Matt Milano drafted in the 5th ... bad linebacker?

Gabriel Davis drafted in the 4th ... zero value?

Dawson Knox drafted in the 3rd ... bad Tight End?

Jordan Poyer and Micah Hyde brought in as cheap free agents ... bad players?

You might not like Ed Oliver, Devin Singletary, Tremaine Edmunds, and Greg Rousseau, but NONE were busts.

Trading a 1st round pick for Stefon Diggs ... bad move? He's nothing special?

Playoff drought streak broken WITHOUT Josh Allen .... coincidence?

 

This type of ungrateful BS and throwing all the love in the world at Josh Allen and saying he's the only reason we're good needs to stop. Does Josh Allen play defense? Because we're a top 5 defense almost every year with McDermott and Beane.

 

GTFO...

 

 

Ha Did you really just list a kicker?  Knox is an average starter.  Who knows what the hell Davis is at this point.  You mention Oliver, Singletary and Edmunds and say, “ well at they ain’t busts!” like that’s a badge of honor.  I would say, it’s not like any of them are impact starters although i’m more bullish Edmunds than most.  The truth is if McBeane hit on more high draft picks we’d be a much better team and not so reliant on a generational talent at QB.  As we’re constructed right now, Josh has to routinely put this team on his back.  

[97bills]

16 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

That would've been fun.

Philosophical question: you're a life-long (in my case, 50 years) Bills fan. Would it bring you more happiness to watch your team go all-in for a 1-2 year time frame and win a Super Bowl (think Rams), and then return to mediocrity and rebuilding for another half dozen years? Or would you prefer to have a team that's in the SB hunt year after year thanks to a great QB and consistent replenishment of the talent base (think Roethlisberger's Steelers), even if you may never be a SB favorite in any given year?

Honestly, I don't know my own mind here. I kind of like following a really good team these last few years, so I'm not (yet) to the point where I want to mortgage the future. But still ...

I agree… and also a long time fan not 50 years but 35 , and while I understand your point about not mortgaging the future. When is it time !!! Look at all the stud QB in the AFC , and will it take a certain player to get over the hump and finally win one. And I really think they thought von was that guy. I guess time will tell , and that’s something me and you are running short on lol time. Let’s just win it this year and be done with these kinds  of conversation. GO Bills 

[3rdand12]

so about this Basham fellow  ....