Would you consider the Boogie Basham pick to be a disappointment?

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, T master said:

 

I went there because that's what most every one in Bills mafia says about players that aren't killing it despite where the Bills came from to where they are .

 

The Bills like every other team will have players that they miss on but i don't believe Boogie is one of them .

 

Sure he's not Von Miller but he's no Arron Maybin either if nothing else he could be a very dependable depth player so although he may not be living up to his draft status & what they thought he could be (which may be to soon to determine) but the jury is still out IMHO .

 

He is productive & isn't getting blown up every play and has some good plays he helps on so i'm good . 

Has he really been that productive though?  Out of all the DE’s on the team, he’s probably the weakest DE defending the edge and he isn’t much better as an edge rusher than any other DE on the team.  

 

 He’s also been beat out by street free agents like Shaq Lawson and a fellow second-round pick in AJ Epinesa.  
 

I think that Boogie is a clear miss as a second round pick.  Anytime your 2nd rounder can’t produce better than a street free agent or a UFA off the practice squad, the returns aren’t good.  

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

Has he really been that productive though?  Out of all the DE’s on the team, he’s probably the weakest DE defending the edge and he isn’t much better as an edge rusher than any other DE on the team.  

 

 He’s also been beat out by street free agents like Shaq Lawson and a fellow second-round pick in AJ Epinesa.  
 

I think that Boogie is a clear miss as a second round pick.  Anytime your 2nd rounder can’t produce better than a street free agent or a UFA off the practice squad, the returns aren’t good.  

What is a street free agent? 😂

[CountDorkula]

20 minutes ago, Seoulofstone said:

Can somebody please tell me what my expectations should be for a DE picked 61? Are we expecting Max Crosby? Or is this just a boo-hoo we didn’t get Creed thread?

 

 

How about starter making an impact every couple games. That’s the bar. 
 

currently we are well below that. 
 

 

he’s Shaq Lawson 2.0 minus the run defense. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by CountDorkula

[whorlnut]

Hated the Basham pick then and hate it now. Beanes philosophy about “always adding to the defensive line” has come at a cost to other positions and it’s starting  to catch up. 

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

What is a street free agent? 😂

You’ve never heard the term “street free agent?”

[Albany,n.y.]

15 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

When was this?  A trade for Basham?  Or an opportunity to trade down?

 

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/beane-reveals-bills-backed-out-of-trade-to-draft-basham-jr

 

Buffalo Bills general manager Brandon beane made two selection on Day 2 of the 2021 NFL Draft, one in the second and third round.

Wake Forest defensive end Carlos Basham Jr. was selected by the Bills in the second round, while offensive tackle Spencer Brown was selected by the Bills out of Northern Iowa.

Beane revealed that Basham Jr. was a player that the Bills held in high regard. The Bills thought so highly of Basham Jr. that if he was still on the board when the 61st overall pick rolled around, the Bills would not go through with a trade down the draft board in order to select the edge rusher.

“I kept thinking he was going to get picked,” Beane said following Day 2 of the NFL Draft. “We had a deal agreed to with an NFC club. We told them if one player was there, which was Basham Jr, that we weren’t going to do the deal. ... It would’ve moved us back into the third round and added some other picks. We felt like we were in a good spot.”

 

[JGMcD2]

Just now, JohnNord said:

You’ve never heard the term “street free agent?”

No. That’s why I’m asking… 

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

Hated the Basham pick then and hate it now. Beanes philosophy about “always adding to the defensive line” has come at a cost to other positions and it’s starting  to catch up. 

Is that a Beane thing or a McDermott thing?

 

id probably lean towards the 2nd guy. 

[whorlnut]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

Is that a Beane thing or a McDermott thing?

 

id probably lean towards the 2nd guy. 

Beane. He’s on record saying that he will always look at adding the defensive line. It’s a troubling stance cause I really don’t have a lot of faith they will look to add to the offense much this year. 

[HappyDays]

End of the 2nd round DE, I will give him his 3rd year before passing judgment.

 

I'm also so sick of the Creed Humphrey talk. The way people talk around here you'd think we missed out on a game changer. He's just a center. Taking a shot at a pass rusher in the 2nd round and missing out on a center is a defensible move. Ryan Bates could step in at center next year and we wouldn't miss a beat. If Basham can even get to AJ Epenesa's production next year that would arguably be MORE valuable than anything a top tier center offers.

[JohnNord]

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

No. That’s why I’m asking… 

 

formal definition:

 

”A street free agent is any unsigned player, who is not on a practice squad, 53-man roster, nor otherwise employed by a football team. These players are available to teams after the main Unrestricted Free Agency, Restricted Free Agency, and Undrafted Free Agency periods are complete.

 

This term is typically reserved for those who are “on the street” during the course of the season and those who have been under contract with an NFL team at some point in their career.”

 

So John Brown or Cole Beasley are street free agents, as was Shaq Lawson who was cut in Week 17 of the 2021 season

 

 

 

[Seoulofstone]

2 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I didn’t mention Creed Humphrey at all.  I just said that when there’s not much drop off between a UFA and a 2nd round DE which leads me to believe it was a bad draft pick.  
 

So let me restate the original question - do you think Boogie Basham was a disappointing draft pick?

 That’s fair, despite you being OP you didn’t mention Creed. For me, invoking the non-pick of Creed is an unfair metric in Boogies evaluation IMO.

 

 So Boogie has played over 20 games in the best part of two years. He’s on a rookie contract. He’s flashed occasionally but underwhelmed lacking consistency in play and production albeit as DE3. Like AJE last year -who now has 7.5 sacks. 
 

As Joe Marino says his problem is that he stayed at Wake Forest a long time and as an older prospect we should expect a more immediate development. 
 

 I would love to be MORE impressed by his development.
 

But he hadn’t washed out of the league, done anything weird. shown a lack of effort, injury issues. Personally, I’m not hating the pick, just hoping for more.

 

But it’s not an egregious misuse of pick 61.

 

 

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

End of the 2nd round DE, I will give him his 3rd year before passing judgment.

 

I'm also so sick of the Creed Humphrey talk. The way people talk around here you'd think we missed out on a game changer. He's just a center. Taking a shot at a pass rusher in the 2nd round and missing out on a center is a defensible move. Ryan Bates could step in at center next year and we wouldn't miss a beat. If Basham can even get to AJ Epenesa's production next year that would arguably be MORE valuable than anything a top tier center offers.

Humphrey is a pro bowl center. You really wanna say this?  Who is the best and most important piece on our line? Morse. Humphrey could have been a very good guard for a few years and then stepped in and have been our pro bowl center instead of our biggest super bowl obstacle. I’d take that over Basham 100 times out of 100. 

[Freddie's Dead]

So far, yes.  I have Boogie at a C cup.

[Epstein's Mother]

54 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

This team is nothing special outside of Allen.

 

Couldn't disagree with you more.  The Bills defense is ranked 7th in yards per game and 2nd in points allowed.

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

formal definition:

 

”A street free agent is any unsigned player, who is not on a practice squad, 53-man roster, nor otherwise employed by a football team. These players are available to teams after the main Unrestricted Free Agency, Restricted Free Agency, and Undrafted Free Agency periods are complete.

 

This term is typically reserved for those who are “on the street” during the course of the season and those who have been under contract with an NFL team at some point in their career.”

 

So John Brown or Cole Beasley are street free agents, as was Shaq Lawson who was cut in Week 17 of the 2021 season

 

 

 

Could’ve sworn we signed him during UFA? 
 

Didn’t Phillips say “sign the contract Shaq” during his press conference? 

[SCBills]

14 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Someone else gets it here.

 

He's made some plays this season (about time) but WAY over-drafted.

 

A game like Monday Night is when he needs to step up and bring interior pressure against good teams.  
 

I loved the Oliver pick when we took him, but I’ve been meh on him ever since.  
 

If you draft a guy in the Top 10 on the DL, he should be someone you can depend on rushing the passer in big games.  
 

Anyone here have faith Ed shows up Monday Night?

 

As for Basham … the pick looks awful at the moment.   He screamed rotational DE coming out of college and I’m not sure why you draft that in RD2. 

[Seoulofstone]

10 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

How about starter making an impact every couple games. That’s the bar. 
 

currently we are well below that. 
 

 

he’s Shaq Lawson 2.0 minus the run defense. 

 Yes I would like to see more. Has his run defense been bad? Genuine question. 

[BuffaloBill]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

 

The returns of the 2nd draft pick is a rotational player who gives you the same production as a replacement level player.  

I guess there’s a chance he can improve a little bit like AJ Epinesa, but when you have street free agents like Shaq Lawson or undrafted practice squad players like Jonathan outplaying you, it’s hard to feel optimistic that a jump is coming in year 3.

 

 

You forget that Lawson was once a 1st round pick and considered a disappointment.  The Bills rotate their D-linemen so they need solid rotational guys.

 

With that said, both Basham and Epenesa have been underwhelming as second round picks.  Had they gone in the fourth o fifth to the Bills you might say they were good value, rotational picks.  

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

I re-watched the Bills/Bears game the other day and noticed a few nice reps from Kingsley Jonathan against a bad OL.  It was impressive to see a guy off the PS flash a bit in his limited opportunities.  He was activated because Boogie Basham was injured and there was basically no drop off between an undrafted DE who bounced between PS’s and a 2nd round draft pick.

 

I don't think you can make that conclusion.  As you point out, the Bears OL is not good.  We've been watching Basham all season against some very good OL.  So how can you look at a few reps against a bad OL and reach a justified conclusion that there's "basically no drop off"?

 

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

In my opinion, the selection of Boogie Basham pick is looking very underwhelming.

 

I agree with this.  Part of it is, as you say, that the Bills in AJE and Basham drafted guys they asked to re-model themselves physically, which is always a bit of a crapshoot. 

 

I will add that part of my disappointment with Basham is the fact that Creed Humphrey was on the board when they drafted Basham.

 

On the other hand, you can't make much of a case that they signed Von Miller because Basham was a disappointment.  They weren't expecting Basham to become Von Miller.  They were expecting him to be a rotational DE. 

 

The Bills recruited and signed Von Miller because they wanted an elite, game changing DE, and they didn't want to expend the draft resources to trade up as high as they would have had to go to pick one.