Continuing yards after catch (YAC) mystery

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

If there was a negative YAC stat we'd probably lead the league. So tired of watching our wrs (especially Diggs) run backwards. 

Yeah he had a really really bad example of that last week, I think he lost about 5 yards.

[PromoTheRobot]

29 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

I agree with you that Allen covers up a lot of deficiencies on this offense like the shaky run game, poor YAC, and hit and miss O-Line play.

 

The point is that if poor YAC is a scheme issue then we are depriving this offense of some easy yards by not adjusting the scheme to address it.  I think Josh has more on his plate than any other QB in the league.  Anything Dorsey can do to lighten that load is a good thing.  The question comes back to, is it a scheme issue, the QB, or the pass catchers?   If it's a combo of issues, which it likely is, is there something they can do to fix it?

 

🍻

 

YAC is just a number. 10 yards is 10 yards whether you run the ball 10, throw it one yard and run 9, or throw it 10.

[Big Blitz]

Because we don’t have Austin Ekeler.  
 

Or Hill.  
 

Or Waddle. 
 

 

Singletary is 60th.  There’s the answer.  And McKenzie hasn’t had enough catches.  
 

Our QB runs more then almost all the others.  
 

Last year was worse because we got almost nothing after the catch from Cole.  And RB 2 was Moss.  

YAC isn’t just about the QB hitting guys in stride to be able to keep them running. 
 

It’s also about elite agility guys making people miss or running by everyone.  

 

Since using Cook more - say around week 10 - I wonder where we rank.  
 

 

This stat is an easy eye test.  Does this team have speed?   
 

Overall on offense not really.  Cook and McKenzie.  That’s it.  Davis and Diggs game isn’t really a speed/make you miss game

[Inigo Montoya]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

YAC is just a number. 10 yards is 10 yards whether you run the ball 10, throw it one yard and run 9, or throw it 10.

 

No argument from me on that point.  Like I said in the OP, I don't care how the Bills offense scores points as long as they keep winning.   If it's possible to take some of the burden off of Josh where he doesn't have to rocket the ball all over the field and get him some easy completions that move the sticks instead, I think that would be a good thing.  

[Seventeen]

42 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This whole YAC thing is dumb. Who cares about YAC when you have a QB who can throw a ball 15-20 yards or more every play? If you're noodle arm Mac Jones then YAC starts to matter. Not if your Josh Allen.

 

Disagree - KC and Cinci are in the top 5 YAC and Mahomes/Burrow are perfectly capable of throwing a ball 15-20 downfield. So why do they rank so high in YAC ? 

[Gugny]

44 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This whole YAC thing is dumb. Who cares about YAC when you have a QB who can throw a ball 15-20 yards or more every play? If you're noodle arm Mac Jones then YAC starts to matter. Not if your Josh Allen.

 

Agreed.  

 

The Bills are scoring 28 points/game, which is 2nd in the AFC (KC - 29.2).

 

Bills are also averaging 260 passing yards/game.  KC (#1) averages 304 passing yards/game.

 

Chiefs average just 19 more total offense yards/game than the Bills (#1 and #2 in the NFL, respectively).

 

Who cares how the yards come?

 

They're scoring a lot of points and that's what wins games.

 

[Roundybout]

Playcalling doesn't ask for a lot of plays like drags and shallow crossers that provide a lot of YAC potential. It's mostly posts and corner routes. Plus, our screen game STINKS. 

[Solomon Grundy]

58 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This whole YAC thing is dumb. Who cares about YAC when you have a QB who can throw a ball 15-20 yards or more every play? If you're noodle arm Mac Jones then YAC starts to matter. Not if your Josh Allen.

Josh and the Bills cares. It was supposed to be an emphasis in the offseason to be better with YAC yardage. The reason they signed Jameson Crowder. A poster mentioned it earlier that Josh prefers laser shots than checkdowns. The reason Mahomes has been more efficient this year is because he's been more prone to check the ball down to his RB. 

[loyal2dagame]

1 hour ago, DaggersEOD said:

Eyeball/gut answer is that JAs arm allows him to get balls through very tight windows leaving the ball carrier with little to no space to work with once they make the catch. 
 

It’s almost like all the YAC is sucked up in the “air yards” the ball travels. 
 

Im not a stats ninja but perhaps there’s a statistical relationship between air yards and YAC. Meaning more air yards tend to result in less YAC while less air yards tend to result in more YAC. 

 

It would be interesting to see where our pass catchers rank in “air yards/catch”. 
 

I guess what I’m saying is shorter routes equal more YAC and that’s not our game. 

These right here are a great points that i really haven't given enough thought to. 

[JaCrispy]

Easy way to explain it is we have a QB, who, while extremely gifted, is not a precision passer who throws guys open- even when there’s not a tight window, and plenty of open field…

 

Hate all you want, but it’s the truth…

Edited December 28, 2022 by JaCrispy

[Roundybout]

8 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Easy way to explain it is we have a QB, who, while extremely gifted, is not a precision passer who throws guys open- even when there’s not a tight window, and plenty of open field…

 

Hate all you want, but it’s the truth…

 

He can absolutely do it, though. That long pass to Knox against Miami was perfect! I feel that he just chooses not to take the underneath stuff too much. 

[HOUSE]

Quicker pass and proper location

It's not rocket science 

[skibum]

I don't think YAC yards are Diggs' strong suit. His tendency is to dink and dunk to juke his defender after the catch, rather than pick an angle, turn upfield, and hit the afterburners. Too much hesitation. Easy for me to say, though!

[Boatdrinks]

46 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Disagree - KC and Cinci are in the top 5 YAC and Mahomes/Burrow are perfectly capable of throwing a ball 15-20 downfield. So why do they rank so high in YAC ? 

I see it as a scheme / design thing. Watching the Chiefs in particular, Mahomes is often throwing to college-open WRs. There’s no a defender within 4-5 yards pretty regularly. They have space to create. The route concepts in the Daboll/ Dorsey offense don’t seem to have the WRs in these open spaces. Josh often chooses to zip the ball into a tight space further downfield than to throw underneath to a guy with more room to roam. Haven’t looked in depth at this but that’s my impression just watching casually. 

[MJS]

1) Our receivers are mostly possession and route running receivers, not speed guys who can turn up field.

 

2) Defenses always have their eyes in the backfield against us because of the threat of Josh running. This hurts the screen and short passing game.

 

3) Josh Allen extends plays and waits for routes to develop. YAC usually comes from quick hitters.

 

4) Josh Allen takes fewer check downs than most QB's. Check downs usually get more YAC.

 

5) The receivers have more freedom to run routes in this offense. This means many times Josh has to wait and find them open, instead of throwing the ball to a precise spot every time. The freedom to run routes helps some things, hurts some others, such as YAC.

[PrimeTime101]

So, let's work this from the bottom up. 

 

Things that help get WR's more Yac.

 

1. Play design- Play design has everything to do with Yac, If your running routs in layers and the throws are meant to be in the first or second layer... then DB's will catch you.

2. Ball Positioning- Another huge part, while I see JA putting it right there, I also see WR's having to reach at weird angles.

3. Offensive Line. You all know how much of a rush JA has had to get that ball out at times. 5 plays he has all day, then the next 5 times they on him in 1.5 seconds.

4. WR Speed. There has to be a reason why we got a dude named smoke.

5. WR Rout Running skill/quickness. I think Diggs is a top 3 WR in this league. THAT BEING SAID!!! <(my fav. saying  ) he is nor ever be a big yak running WR.

6. The Running Game. This is getting better BUT, if teams do not have respect for your running game 7 DB's/LBS will be floating all over the place. This obviously is getting better.

[The Firebaugh Kid]

WR screens. Likely a big part of why KC ranks so high. Not sure why we aren't using them more but....

[DapperCam]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

YAC is just a number. 10 yards is 10 yards whether you run the ball 10, throw it one yard and run 9, or throw it 10.

True, but a 1 yard pass has a higher chance of being completed and a lower chance of being a turnover than a 10 yard pass. That is the allure. Same yards gained, less risk.

[Brand J]

43 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Easy way to explain it is we have a QB, who, while extremely gifted, is not a precision passer who throws guys open- even when there’s not a tight window, and plenty of open field…

 

Hate all you want, but it’s the truth…

No hate, it’s true. I’d even go so far to say that he’s a streaky passer. Some games he’ll have all world accuracy where he does throw receivers open and just places the ball in the absolute best spot it could be, while the other 66% of his games he struggles with accuracy and placement. This year he’s been struggling with decision making too. I’m just hoping it’s more that his concentration is built for the playoffs than regular season. 

[JaCrispy]

42 minutes ago, Roundybout said:

 

He can absolutely do it, though. That long pass to Knox against Miami was perfect! I feel that he just chooses not to take the underneath stuff too much. 

Oh, he can and has shown great accuracy from time to time- no doubt…he just doesn’t do it consistently enough to where you can rely on it being done…