Continuing yards after catch (YAC) mystery

[Inigo Montoya]

It's crazy to me that the Bills pass catchers continue to rank so low on yards after catch.  It clearly isn't slowing the 12-3 offense down too much, I'm just not sure how to explain it.  We have an elite QB and solid receivers.  The Bills' offense struggled with YAC last season and I remember Josh said it was a point of emphasis for him this last off-season when he was working with Jordan Palmer, working on ball placement to allow his pass catchers to increase their YAC.  

 

To provide some context, the Chiefs are 1st in YAC, the Bills are 24th.  Austin Ekeler is 1st in YAC, Kelce is 2nd, Jefferson is 3rd.  Hill and Waddle are 7th and 8t.  Diggs is 23rd, Singletary is 60th, Knox is 99th, and Gabe Davis is 133rd in YAC.  Is it just the style of the offense we've been running, the types of routes being run, or how Josh is getting the ball in there?   Do the Bills have more sideline / out cutting routes than is typical?   Has anyone noticed some tendencies of the Bills' offense that can explain it?   For whatever reason, improved YAC hasn't happened this year.

 

The offense is still getting the job done and this isn't a post to be critical of the Bills offense.  As long as Josh and Co. keep stacking wins I don't care how they do it.  It's more of a technical question about how the Bills 7th ranked passing offense can also be 24th in YAC?  It seems a bit of an anomaly.

[LABILLBACKER]

If there was a negative YAC stat we'd probably lead the league. So tired of watching our wrs (especially Diggs) run backwards. 

[JohnNord]

Part of the problem is that the Bills haven’t really have much of a screen game.  I’m not exactly sure why as it should favor their offensive line but the few screens they have called usually result in little yardage.  I can’t remember the exact number but I believe Mahomes led the league in shorter passes yet also led the league in passing yards.  

 

I also think part is Josh as a passer.  He’s more of an off-schedule thrower at QB rather than a timing passer. Also I think ball placement has been an issue at times.
 

Then you have WR’s like Diggs who is a great route runner but not a burner, Davis who can get open deep but doesn’t have a great route tree, and the rest of the WR’s

Edited December 28, 2022 by JohnNord

[Brand J]

1) We don’t have a timing based offense designed to get YAC yards.

 

2) Our screen game is terrible. At least under Daboll the WR screens were somewhat effective. Under Dorsey, yards from the RB/TE/WR screens are virtually non-existent. 
 

3) Ball placement still seems to rear its ugly head for Josh, thus eliminating some YAC opportunities. 

[DaggersEOD]

Eyeball/gut answer is that JAs arm allows him to get balls through very tight windows leaving the ball carrier with little to no space to work with once they make the catch. 
 

It’s almost like all the YAC is sucked up in the “air yards” the ball travels. 
 

Im not a stats ninja but perhaps there’s a statistical relationship between air yards and YAC. Meaning more air yards tend to result in less YAC while less air yards tend to result in more YAC. 

 

It would be interesting to see where our pass catchers rank in “air yards/catch”. 
 

I guess what I’m saying is shorter routes equal more YAC and that’s not our game. 

[Dr.Sack]

Allen would rather throw a laser than check the ball down. It’s the way he plays. Also the weather sucks the past 8 or so games, meaning the conditions make it difficult to secure the ball let alone get YAC.

[BillsBy50]

It’s all about the screen game, Mahomes is checking down big YAC plays to McKinnon almost every drive. Misleading stat yawn 

[DCbillsfan]

Made me think of Davis' 98 yard TD against the Steelers.  Allen throws the ball from the end zone, with a guy bearing down on him, to the 50 where Davis catches it and runs it in.  About 48 air yards and 50 yards after the catch.  Bills offense just isn't geared towards YAC.  Mostly air yards.

[Inigo Montoya]

8 minutes ago, BillsBy50 said:

It’s all about the screen game, Mahomes is checking down big YAC plays to McKinnon almost every drive. Misleading stat yawn 

 

McKinnon is ranked 5th in YAC.  I'm not sure what's misleading about the stat.  If anything it points to Allen being much more responsible for the Bills' passing game success than Mahomes is for the Chiefs.  Mahomes has two of the top five YAC pass catchers in the league.  Josh doesn't have that luxury.  

 

It's just one more ingredient to throw into the MVP discussion soup.

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Inigo Montoya said:

It's crazy to me that the Bills pass catchers continue to rank so low on yards after catch.  It clearly isn't slowing the 12-3 offense down too much, I'm just not sure how to explain it.  We have an elite QB and solid receivers.  The Bills' offense struggled with YAC last season and I remember Josh said it was a point of emphasis for him this last off-season when he was working with Jordan Palmer, working on ball placement to allow his pass catchers to increase their YAC.  

 

To provide some context, the Chiefs are 1st in YAC, the Bills are 24th.  Austin Ekeler is 1st in YAC, Kelce is 2nd, Jefferson is 3rd.  Hill and Waddle are 7th and 8t.  Diggs is 23rd, Singletary is 60th, Knox is 99th, and Gabe Davis is 133rd in YAC.  Is it just the style of the offense we've been running, the types of routes being run, or how Josh is getting the ball in there?   Do the Bills have more sideline / out cutting routes than is typical?   Has anyone noticed some tendencies of the Bills' offense that can explain it?   For whatever reason, improved YAC hasn't happened this year.

 

The offense is still getting the job done and this isn't a post to be critical of the Bills offense.  As long as Josh and Co. keep stacking wins I don't care how they do it.  It's more of a technical question about how the Bills 7th ranked passing offense can also be 24th in YAC?  It seems a bit of an anomaly.

 

 

It's a combination of factors........most already mentioned in the thread.

 

But the receiving corps is definitely part of the issue..........Diggs is great before the catch but just good after he's received the ball............and Knox and Davis both struggle to catch the football......so as with all receivers with poor ball skills do they often have to stop or leave their feet in order to concentrate on the catch.......which leaves them dead for YAC.

 

I've mentioned it before but when you build your receiving corps with middle round talents you generally don't get targets with the whole package.  

[NoSaint]

Not a lot of screens

 

not elite speed

 

frankly outside diggs not great talent on the perimeter 

 

Knox isn’t much of a tackle breaker

 

refusal to get the ball in cooks hands 

 

This team isn’t built well for that

[PromoTheRobot]

This whole YAC thing is dumb. Who cares about YAC when you have a QB who can throw a ball 15-20 yards or more every play? If you're noodle arm Mac Jones then YAC starts to matter. Not if your Josh Allen.

[BearNorth]

Our O-line play is mediocre, that takes away a lot of screen and tight end plays that can generate big YAC.  McKenzie [when he can catch the ball] isn't exactly a huge YAC machine.

[Fleezoid]

I think there are 2 reasons for this. For some reason, there's a lot of passes to the sidelines. Not much room after the catch. Also, most of the passes to the middle of the field seem to be come-back routes. Those are actually good 1st down plays and it works with a QB with a strong arm.

 

Or, maybe it's that every play is off-script. 

 

[RunTheBall]

It's the routes Dorsey calls. A ton of hitches, outs, deep crossers and few screens. Thrown in a bit of poor ball placement by Josh and there goes your YAC. I couldn't care less about this stat especially if it's made up for in air yards and passes that end in the EZ

[costrovs]

It's a mix of all of it...

Plays, Players, Oline. 

[Inigo Montoya]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

This whole YAC thing is dumb. Who cares about YAC when you have a QB who can throw a ball 15-20 yards or more every play? If you're noodle arm Mac Jones then YAC starts to matter. Not if your Josh Allen.

 

I agree with you that Allen covers up a lot of deficiencies on this offense like the shaky run game, poor YAC, and hit and miss O-Line play.

 

The point is that if poor YAC is a scheme issue then we are depriving this offense of some easy yards by not adjusting the scheme to address it.  I think Josh has more on his plate than any other QB in the league.  Anything Dorsey can do to lighten that load is a good thing.  The question comes back to, is it a scheme issue, the QB, or the pass catchers?   If it's a combo of issues, which it likely is, is there something they can do to fix it?

 

🍻

[Big Turk]

At one point, they were in the top 5 in YAC

[Process]

I think the offense we run is a big part of it. Not designed for guys to get yards after catch.

 

Allen's ball placement is also pretty poor. He is nowhere near as precise as Mahomes and some other guys. He doesn't lead guys so they can catch on the go and guys are often having to make adjustments to the ball. That's not really a knock on him, all QBs have flaws and that's one of his.

 

How are the Giants this year in YAC? Curious bc of Daboll. There offense is also made up of a bunch of practice squad players so not sure we can take much from that .

[Inigo Montoya]

6 minutes ago, Process said:

How are the Giants this year in YAC? Curious bc of Daboll. There offense is also made up of a bunch of practice squad players so not sure we can take much from that .

 

Giants are ranked 19th.

 

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/tmleaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=231