MVP; Hurts / Allen / Mahomes by the numbers...

[LABILLBACKER]

43 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

This is true and it’s stupid haha if josh had mahomes’ offensive line he’d win mvp easily.  It’s honestly pretty crazy he has been 95% as effective as mahomes with an exponentially worse offensive line. 

You give Josh the Philly or KC OL, he'd be way ahead of Hurts or Patty on those numbers. Aside from Dawkins, Morse & maybe Bates, our OL (including depth) is awful. And it has been since 2019.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

20 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

If I were given a vote to cast, it would go to Hurts.  Aside from his outstanding play, a large part of the reason the Eagles only have 1 loss is because he takes care of the football.  

Not sure this holds a ton of water for me. His passing attack seems to be much more QB friendly with a strong running game, great Oline and schemed receivers running open. Whereas Allen has none of that. He does only have 5 INT to Mahomes and Allen with 11, but his schedule played isn't made up of great defenses faced. He's not even that much ahead of Allen in fumbles 9 to 11, and behind Mahomes who has 5! I think the team friendly context accounts for his numbers ALOT! JMHO

Edited December 21, 2022 by D. L. Hot-Flamethrower

[Scott7975]

I was told great qbs don’t throw double digit ints. Guess Mahomes sucks too then. 

[Billsfan1972]

59 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I think that is only the case if the Bills don't secure the #1 seed. Which seems likely since it will be tough beating the Bengals on the road and the Chiefs probably don't have another loss on the schedule.

 

But...Why should Mahomes win it if the Chiefs don't secure the #1 seed due to his failures against the Bills and Bengals?

Because those would have been considered "team" losses, vs. 3 very bad mistakes that will be pinned on Allen. 

 

Plus the narrative that he has done it with a new receiving core and loss of Hill.

 

Not saying it is right, but the National Media doesn't like to throw Mahomes under the bus.  

[3rdnlng]

5 hours ago, Utah John said:

You could make a good argument the MVP is Justin Jefferson or Tyreek Hill.  Both of them would make a huge difference for any team they played for.

I pick Mahomes, due to the gopher holes.  I'd hate to see Allen injured.

Your bear traps weren't enough?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

20 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because those would have been considered "team" losses, vs. 3 very bad mistakes that will be pinned on Allen. 

 

Plus the narrative that he has done it with a new receiving core and loss of Hill.

 

Not saying it is right, but the National Media doesn't like to throw Mahomes under the bus.  

I don’t think the mvp voters get too into individual game performances like that but if they did josh did blow that Vikings second half sure,  but he also pulled off quite a few impressive comebacks against good teams where he put the team on his back.  KC has kind of been bumbling along just edging out bad teams

 

If buffalo and kc both win out, I’d expect mvp to go to josh assuming he plays well.  He will have a win over just about every team in the afc playoff picture and he will be likely leading his team in rushing. Not sure how much this effects things but hurts might miss a couple games down the stretch here; I’d expect him to sit week 18 with the 1 seed locked up and he could miss the Dallas game due to injury 

Edited December 21, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[BearNorth]

I just took a look, and not only does Mahomes play behind a better O-Line, [Dawkins is the only player on our O-Line better than any of their 5], but because of the injury bug, we haven't been very consistent with our O-line.  The Chiefs starters as a unit have played 94% of their snaps.  The Bills starters as a unit have played 84% of the snaps.  KC has only one reserve [Allegretti] with any significant number of snaps, we have three, Quessenberry, VanRoten, and [shudder] Hart.

[HappyDays]

42 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

If I were given a vote to cast, it would go to Hurts.  Aside from his outstanding play, a large part of the reason the Eagles only have 1 loss is because he takes care of the football.  

 

He has the luxury of taking care of the ball because he doesn't have to be the team's entire offense. Allen and Mahomes don't have the luxury of the best run offense in football, the best OL in football, and two #1 WRs. If they don't put it all on the line every week their teams will lose most games, and yes that leads to turnovers but it also leads to unbelievable plays that are necessary to win the game. Case in point the Texans and Dolphins arguably outplayed the Chiefs and Bills in their respective matches last weekend, the only reason their teams won is because of the QB play. I'll be surprised if the Eagles offense drops off that far with Gardner Minshew but we'll see.

[BullBuchanan]

Allen isn't in the race. It's Hurts and Mahomes unless they both get hurt and Allen goes off the remaining games. Even then I'm not sure. Allen;s shot to win was last year.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

27 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Because those would have been considered "team" losses, vs. 3 very bad mistakes that will be pinned on Allen. 

 

Plus the narrative that he has done it with a new receiving core and loss of Hill.

 

Not saying it is right, but the National Media doesn't like to throw Mahomes under the bus.  

 

Mahomes literally threw a game ending INT against the Bills when they had plenty of time to drive for the win. He had two turnovers for the game. Allen only had one fumble that shouldn't even count against him since it was McKenzie's mistake.

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Allen isn't in the race. It's Hurts and Mahomes unless they both get hurt and Allen goes off the remaining games. Even then I'm not sure. Allen;s shot to win was last year.

And all things, especially health considered, the next 5-7 years too.  

 

Look voters won't consider the weather, the OL, Drops (lack of bigtime catches) or the things us fans see every week from Allen.

 

They will see the lull in weeks 8-10, two spotty performances vs. NYJ and the Viking second half/OT.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

20 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Not sure how much this effects things but hurts might miss a couple games down the stretch here; I’d expect him to sit week 18 with the 1 seed locked up and he could miss the Dallas game due to injury 

 

He might sit out the next two games and come back for the week 18 game so he has some playing time before the Divisional game two weeks later. That is how I would handle the Hurts injury. 

 

Best case for Hurts is that Minshew looks terrible this week in a Cowboys blow out. Looks meh the following week. And Hurts has a big week 18 game.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Mahomes literally threw a game ending INT against the Bills when they had plenty of time to drive for the win. He had two turnovers for the game. Allen only had one fumble that shouldn't even count against him since it was McKenzie's mistake.

Yes but compared to the Viking second half/ot, doesn't compare.  The Int at the end of the KC game was a great defensive play and pressure. Josh's ints vs. Minny were just outright bad (and then there was the fumble). 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And all things, especially health considered, the next 5-7 years too.  

 

Look voters won't consider the weather, the OL, Drops (lack of bigtime catches) or the things us fans see every week from Allen.

 

They will see the lull in weeks 8-10, two spotty performances vs. NYJ and the Viking second half/OT.  

 

I'm not sure that is entirely the case. It's only 50 voters. Guys like Peter King. If it were open to 200 media guys I could see that being the case. I'd like to think guys like King actually dig much deeper than just the raw stats. It will be interesting how changing it to a rank system changes the voting process.

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes but compared to the Viking second half/ot, doesn't compare.  The Int at the end of the KC game was a great defensive play and pressure. Josh's ints vs. Minny were just outright bad (and then there was the fumble). 

 

Minny game won't matter come end of season if the Bills win out and get the #1 seed. Meanwhile Mahomes failures will have cost his team the #1 seed. 

 

I keep repeating it but the Bengals game is huge. That's two top dogs both at the QB position and team level going at it. Whoever wins that game moves up a lot in the MVP rankings.

[947]

Nobody ever considers weather conditions when judging the MVP race, just raw stats. Allen has already had multiple bad weather games, and has at least 1 more on tap. Mahomes almost never has to deal with rain, snow, or ridiculous winds. He has that advantage every year.

 

It's gonna be hard for Josh to ever win an MVP because of his home city weather, but nobody can argue that he's not the player most important to his team in the entire league. We'd be in the running for a top-5 pick without him.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I'm not sure that is entirely the case. It's only 50 voters. Guys like Peter King. If it were open to 200 media guys I could see that being the case. I'd like to think guys like King actually dig much deeper than just the raw stats. It will be interesting how changing it to a rank system changes the voting process.

 

Minny game won't matter come end of season if the Bills win out and get the #1 seed. Meanwhile Mahomes failures will have cost his team the #1 seed. 

 

I keep repeating it but the Bengals game is huge. That's two top dogs both at the QB position and team level going at it. Whoever wins that game moves up a lot in the MVP rankings.

Cincy game if he lights them up for 375 and a mistake free 38-35 victory may do it.

 

And Peter King too seems to miss a lot of the little things Allen does from his most recent article.  

 

I'm not at all worried about the MVP, just responding here to some points.

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

I don't believe mvp is anything allen is thinking or worrying about receiving that honor. he cares about nothing more than hoisting a lombardi trophy.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

35 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes but compared to the Viking second half/ot, doesn't compare.  The Int at the end of the KC game was a great defensive play and pressure. Josh's ints vs. Minny were just outright bad (and then there was the fumble). 

I don’t think the mahomes game ending int against buffalo was any better...honestly I think it was worse.    Davis was open on a post on that ot pick vs Minnesota and Allen just missed the throw badly.  It really wasn’t a bad read he just threw the ball like sh*t and it was way behind Davis.  I’m sure it was at least partly due to his banged up elbow.  An overwhelming majority of the time that’s an incompletion or a td. 
 

mahomes’ pick he held the ball way too long to make that throw…it wasn’t a good decision and if you’re gonna double clutch a throw like that there’s a good chance the defense is gonna jump the route.  Once he pumped you’ve gotta eat that sack or try to throw it away.  

Edited December 21, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[frostbitmic]

I'd vote for Josh but I'm biased.

 

Mahomes has the best stats and most TDs, but Allen is close AND Allen beat Mahomes and the Chiefs.

 

Hurts is having a great season BUT he isn't on Allen or Mahomes level.

[BearNorth]

Josh is focused on the prolate spheroid on a pyramid called the Lombardi Trophy.  All this other stuff is noise.

Edited December 21, 2022 by BearNorth