Kurt Warner Breakdown of Josh Allen in the Miami Game

[JohnRVA]

I didn't see this anywhere else in the forums. This is a breakdown by Kurt Warner of the Miami game. It's pretty in depth on what Josh should be looking at first, second, third. Pretty good breakdown IMHO for those of us who are not film experts.

 

[HappyDays]

Thanks for posting but I only got through 9 minutes before giving up. Kurt Warner clearly doesn't like Allen's style and it colors his evaluation. So on the 1st drive he talks about the miss to McKenzie on 3rd down. He says a throw to Davis at the sticks is the easier throw. But the read to McKenzie is fine, he's open Allen just sails the pass. The play was bad but not for the reason Kurt Warner says. Then on the TD to Morris he criticizes Allen for immediately running out of the pocket. I guess Kurt Warner hasn't watched a lot of Allen film, because Allen runs to the right all the time to set up an easier throw. He isn't bailing the pocket, he immediately sees that Morris is in single man coverage with the safety in trail so he runs to the right to set up a good angle and then throws a dime. That is the kind of throwing platform Allen prefers. This play in particular was unbelievably poor analysis so that was the end of the video for me.

[Richard Noggin]

11 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Thanks for posting but I only got through 9 minutes before giving up. Kurt Warner clearly doesn't like Allen's style and it colors his evaluation. So on the 1st drive he talks about the miss to McKenzie on 3rd down. He says a throw to Davis at the sticks is the easier throw. But the read to McKenzie is fine, he's open Allen just sails the pass. The play was bad but not for the reason Kurt Warner says. Then on the TD to Morris he criticizes Allen for immediately running out of the pocket. I guess Kurt Warner hasn't watched a lot of Allen film, because Allen runs to the right all the time to set up an easier throw. He isn't bailing the pocket, he immediately sees that Morris is in single man coverage with the safety in trail so he runs to the right to set up a good angle and then throws a dime. That is the kind of throwing platform Allen prefers. This play in particular was unbelievably poor analysis so that was the end of the video for me.

 

Without yet watching this video, we know Warner's MO has been critiquing Allen's play based on a very conventional, rote interpretation of pocket passing and progressions. He's not going to appreciate the off-schedule and scramble stuff because he'll instead point out the play that could have been made in rhythm from the pocket (instead of holding onto the ball longer and/or breaking the pocket). 

 

It's the traditional, pedantic way to analyze QB play. He's not exactly wrong, but he's also not necessarily right. 

[StHustle]

1 hour ago, JohnRVA said:

I didn't see this anywhere else in the forums. This is a breakdown by Kurt Warner of the Miami game. It's pretty in depth on what Josh should be looking at first, second, third. Pretty good breakdown IMHO for those of us who are not film experts.

 

I’ll pass. I get annoyed watching Warner break down Josh. Give me Baldy all day tho!

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, JohnRVA said:

I didn't see this anywhere else in the forums. This is a breakdown by Kurt Warner of the Miami game. It's pretty in depth on what Josh should be looking at first, second, third. Pretty good breakdown IMHO for those of us who are not film experts.

 

 

A perfectly fine analysis.

 

Not sure what others are complaining about. There are times Allen bails early and misses the layup or misses the easy throw looking for the home run. This is not news.

 

Warner did not spend a lot of time on those either, if folks had a bit more patience he was pretty balanced in his analysis. What I found enlightening were the many times he said he loved the designs of the plays, but often our receivers were just a little off running their routes, or off in their techniques or leverage getting off the press man coverage Miami prefers, and missing those small execution details limited the windows of opportunity the plays were designed to open for Allen.

 

That made me feel better about some of Dorsey's play design, but also shows that there needs to be more focus on execution detail and ensuring players are running the right routes, with the right timing, to the right depths... success is in the details.

 

I think Allen does need to get set and get rid of the ball more on schedule in the RZ. That comes from him both recognizing what the defense is doing, and trusting his reads and protection. I think that string of games with the RZ turnovers has made him a bit more hesitant to pull the trigger than he was last season. It is understandable and I think he is gradually working through it.

 

Fortunately Allen is supremely gifted and can usually make something positive happen off schedule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Protocal69]

I was going to post this as a separate post but decided not to but my question is.

 

Is it time for the Bills to get a big body receiver who can make contested catches?

 

I know that one key to Josh Allen development was getting away from big bodied receivers to receivers that can run precise routes. This was probably the right approach because of Josh Allen accuracy issues in his 1st couple of seasons in the league.

 

Now that Allen ball placement and accuracy is better now I think we can revisit the need of a WR that can make contested catches

 

Here is an example of what Im talking about from the 1st Dolphins game in the second clip for the pass into the endzone. Now imagine a receiver like Mike Williams or out of last draft class George Pickens that plays for the Steelers. Gabe would be a excellent player but for his size he drops too many contested catches. If he could fix that issue along with his weak ankles that would be ideal but if not I think we should invest either through the draft or free agency for a Mike Williams/ Mike Evans type of receiver.

 

One last case to support my case is the fact that we play are most important games in Dec/Jan/Feb:) I think it helps to have size at the receiver stop to help in the redzone/run game WR blocking and for footing purposes. I might do some research on this certain aspect to see if it really does help in that regard.

 

 

[DrPJax]

Warner was a prototypical pocket passer who was immobile. Qb play has changed. Kurt is consistent in his pointing out flaws he always sees with Josh’s style of play. Even Rex Ryan said do not coach Josh “ down” !   Warner does not want to acknowledge his time has passed and I think he only believes his way is the correct way to play qb.  I like Kurt , but his analysis of Josh is always the same , critical analysis and it’s tiresome.   When did Kurt leap for a drive sustaining first down or run 50:yards?  He also had three other hof guys playing with him, including Faulk. 
He is always critical of the Bills ; one must have critiqued his wife’s “ unique” hair styles at some point, as most women from the mafia at least look very feminine while having good football knowledge!  Lol!  Kurt needs to get rid of that dam Michelin coat he wears and accept Josh is the type of qb / athlete who will surpass Warner’s passing stats while also being a complete “ football “ player , not just a pocket passer.
Some guys can’t accept someone being a superior athlete at their  position, Kurt strikes me as that guy. It’s time for guys like him and Bradshaw to move on. The game has given them life changing wealth so like all careers , it’s time for new generational talent. Let’s see them succeed in other fields or just go enjoy your families.  These networks hold on to stale talent and wonder why these pregame shows are criticized.   There should be term limits for these old athletes who played in a different era , just like term limits are needed for politicians like the senate and congress as it has lead to the same ineffective bottom line. 😊🎄

[Shortchaz]

As well as Allen played, he did put the ball on the ground late. That fumble could’ve cost the bills the game (along with the defense playing poorly). It didn’t, thankfully, but that’s how it is with Allen. He’s a slinger. 

[Buddo]

Tbh, I think it's the kind of film study that Allen will do with Dorsey.

 

Warner, from what I can see, doesn't want Allen to stop being Allen, he just wants him to take more of the easier throws that are available, and make life a little easier for himself, and everyone else.

 

Over time, I'm sure Allen will gradually do that, as it's not risk averse, it's simply taking what the opposing D is giving him - and he knows he should be doing that better at times.

 

I consider it to be constructive criticism, and to be fair to Warner, he was pretty much in awe of Allen on the Sunday Morning show.

[H2o]

Warner is a tool. He's always been highly critical of Josh and you can tell even now that it makes him cringe inside to give him praise. We can all see that Josh misses some things at times because he still can get locked in on the chunk plays. Other times he is going after the quick hitters and flat passes to get what he can. Other times he's scrambling around in the backfield and making off script throws that only 1 or 2 other guys in the league can make. Other times he will see a lane, say eff the progressions, and go get 20-40 yards with his legs. This is our Franchise QB. This is what he does. Thanks for posting OP, but I surely can't take an hour's worth of KW assessing Josh or anyone else for that matter. 

[hemma]

I think that choosing the ‘easy throw’ is relatively simple if you can rewind the above ground level tape 4 or 5 times.

[GunnerBill]

Kurt Warner breaks down what Quarterbacks are reading and should be reading as well as anyone in the business. I think if people watch this looking for criticisms of Josh they will find them. Because Josh doesn't really play by the rules. But Kurt acknowledges that right up top, and says he was a guy who because of more limited athletic ability had to play by the rules. 

 

The more interesting thing in this breakdown for me is actually watching the Bills route concepts and how they are trying to attack Miami. There are some lay ups there that Josh will wish he'd have taken when he watches the film. But there is overwhelmingly more good than bad. 

[GoBills808]

End zone angle of that first throw to McKenzie is a better view tbh

 

Allen needs to layer that one high to get over robber LB

 

McKenzie doesn't go up for it

[Charles Romes]

I think Warner is being a little too humble when he said he did not have next level ability.  I see a lot of Warner in Allen.  Warner was the best of his era in terms of looking deep down field every play, keeping defenses terrorized. Allen is the best of his era. 

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

I think Warner is being a little too humble when he said he did not have next level ability.  I see a lot of Warner in Allen.  Warner was the best of his era in terms of looking deep down field every play, keeping defenses terrorized. Allen is the best of his era. 

 

Kurt was definitely an aggressive thrower, but for a different reason that Allen I think. Josh is an aggressive thrower because there is no throw on the football field that he doesn't think he can make. Kurt was an aggressive thrower because he had exceptional processing speed and so could see that window open down the field before anyone else and if it wasn't there he had realised that quickly enough that his underneath throw hadn't closed off in the meantime. 

 

But they both wanted to make the big play before they settled for the completion. They have that in common.

[bigduke6]

i have zero problem with Warners critques of Josh.   i watched this before it was posted here,  and ive watched Warner previously break down Josh in other vids.    he's fair imo.   i agree with Warner in that eventually Josh is going to have to make those easy mental throws and not rely on the amazing play when things break down.  i understand thats Allens game as of right now,  but,  as time progresses,   and injuries or just age catch up with Josh,  he's  going to start having to take those "layup" passes and play a more mental game.    Josh is fine now,  he'll continue to grow hopefully and become just as deadly with his field reading as he is with his feet/school yard run around make a unicorn play.  Go Bills!!!.

[jletha]

Funny enough the preferred QB style for Kurt is Tua. A cerebral QB that has great anticipation and great accuracy. I think its fine to have multiple opinions out there breaking down the same tape. Kurt is consistent in that he always criticizes Allen using his athleticism when it wasnt 100% necessary. Kurt wants Allen to play like Drew Brees when its available and then only utilize his physical talents when there isnt a good play to make within the pocket. It is his personal rubric but I think it will just never happen. Of course if you cant escape the pocket and throw on the run like Allen you will be forced to read the field a bit better or get benched. Guys like Tua and Drew Brees and Kurt were able to do so. They are definitely more cerebral than Josh. But Josh is (more) successful because he can do 75% of that and also make plays happen out of structure. But sometimes he prefers out of structure. The TD to Morris is a perfect example.

 

Yes he could have stayed in the pocket but he imiediately say that Morris beat his man and so ran right to get the throw he wants. Was it "Ideal QB play"? No, Brady would have stayed in the pocket and made the throw. But Josh doesnt have to and thats fine by me.

[SDS]

2 hours ago, Protocal69 said:

I was going to post this as a separate post but decided not to but my question is.

 

Is it time for the Bills to get a big body receiver who can make contested catches?

 

I know that one key to Josh Allen development was getting away from big bodied receivers to receivers that can run precise routes. This was probably the right approach because of Josh Allen accuracy issues in his 1st couple of seasons in the league.

 

Now that Allen ball placement and accuracy is better now I think we can revisit the need of a WR that can make contested catches

 

Here is an example of what Im talking about from the 1st Dolphins game in the second clip for the pass into the endzone. Now imagine a receiver like Mike Williams or out of last draft class George Pickens that plays for the Steelers. Gabe would be a excellent player but for his size he drops too many contested catches. If he could fix that issue along with his weak ankles that would be ideal but if not I think we should invest either through the draft or free agency for a Mike Williams/ Mike Evans type of receiver.

 

One last case to support my case is the fact that we play are most important games in Dec/Jan/Feb:) I think it helps to have size at the receiver stop to help in the redzone/run game WR blocking and for footing purposes. I might do some research on this certain aspect to see if it really does help in that regard.

 

 

since this has nothing to do with Kurt Warner’s analysis, it is by definition a separate topic.

[BlazinBill]

I really don't mind Kurt's take but they are definitely 2 different QB's on how they play and see the field - I attempted to watch it. I just couldn't. I really enjoy breakdowns Chris Simms did alot of last year(unsure if he still does them) Its probably for his straight love for Josh, but felt like he had better takes and was just more enjoyable. And of course Baldy

5 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

A perfectly fine analysis.

 

Not sure what others are complaining about. There are times Allen bails early and misses the layup or misses the easy throw looking for the home run. This is not news.

 

Warner did not spend a lot of time on those either, if folks had a bit more patience he was pretty balanced in his analysis. What I found enlightening were the many times he said he loved the designs of the plays, but often our receivers were just a little off running their routes, or off in their techniques or leverage getting off the press man coverage Miami prefers, and missing those small execution details limited the windows of opportunity the plays were designed to open for Allen.

 

That made me feel better about some of Dorsey's play design, but also shows that there needs to be more focus on execution detail and ensuring players are running the right routes, with the right timing, to the right depths... success is in the details.

 

I think Allen does need to get set and get rid of the ball more on schedule in the RZ. That comes from him both recognizing what the defense is doing, and trusting his reads and protection. I think that string of games with the RZ turnovers has made him a bit more hesitant to pull the trigger than he was last season. It is understandable and I think he is gradually working through it.

 

Fortunately Allen is supremely gifted and can usually make something positive happen off schedule.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm with ya here- I do feel like the responsibility of the offensive coordinator is to design red zone plays that suite your QB- but watching JA extend is amazing but also leaving my defibrillator drained 

Some quick reads would be nice from time to time

Edited December 20, 2022 by BlazinBill

[Don Otreply]

Kurt’s does have his own perspective, and that’s valid enough, he comes across as grudgingly accepting Joshes style of play. He is good at break downs, but Baldy is imo better at it, and far more fun to watch.