Spencer Brown Dolphins Game

[BADOLBILZ]

48 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

I think a lot of Brown's struggles this year have been because he wasn't 100% recovered from his back surgery. For a guy who's 6'8" being able to bend is crutial to handle edge rushers. I think next season he takes a big leap forward.

 

I think he does a good job getting low on his run blocks versus DE's,  on the move and blocking down inside.   His biggest issue are the slow feet, IMO.   And that wasn't anticipated.    On paper(RAS) he looks like a very good LT prospect and I think he showed more athleticism early in 2021 before the back injury caused him to miss time.   

[Beck Water]

On 12/19/2022 at 4:00 PM, Philo said:

I don't watch closely enough or know enough to comment on his blocking though I have to say the fumble recovery certainly was huge. The Bills have had abysmal luck on bounces when it comes to fumbles this season, so him securing that one to preserve the TD drive was extremely clutch. I still have hope he'll develop further and improve his blocking...likely a more noticeable jump next season, but maybe we'll see it start here for the playoff push? That would be sweet.

 

Just a little point that Josh has 16 fumbles and has lost 6 of them, which is a bit ahead of the 50/50 odds these things are supposed to have, and supports maybe "average" luck?

 

[Philo]

13 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just a little point that Josh has 16 fumbles and has lost 6 of them, which is a bit ahead of the 50/50 odds these things are supposed to have, and supports maybe "average" luck?

 

 

I see your point, however my thought was broader than just Josh's fumbling. In my recollection there have been several instances of balls hitting the deck when the Bills have been on defense and they bounce right back to the only opposing player in the vicinity.

 

I don't have a stat to back it up, but I do remember someone posting some advanced stat several weeks ago showing that the Bills were, I think, the second unluckiest team in the league at the time when it came to "bad luck" bounces. Which I believe included fumble bounces as I just described as well as whose hands a tipped pass ends up in and other odd ball movements of that nature. Maybe someone else can remember what that stat was called and who came up with it. It may have been posted around midseason so perhaps the Bills luck has evened out since then.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 12/19/2022 at 5:02 PM, Big Turk said:

 

He had a pretty nice pull/trap block on one of Cook's runs 

Seems like he’s good at run blocking but rough in pass protection 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Seems like he’s good at run blocking but rough in pass protection 

Yeah he is a mauler in the run game but he can be had on speed rushes.

1 hour ago, Philo said:

 

I see your point, however my thought was broader than just Josh's fumbling. In my recollection there have been several instances of balls hitting the deck when the Bills have been on defense and they bounce right back to the only opposing player in the vicinity.

 

I don't have a stat to back it up, but I do remember someone posting some advanced stat several weeks ago showing that the Bills were, I think, the second unluckiest team in the league at the time when it came to "bad luck" bounces. Which I believe included fumble bounces as I just described as well as whose hands a tipped pass ends up in and other odd ball movements of that nature. Maybe someone else can remember what that stat was called and who came up with it. It may have been posted around midseason so perhaps the Bills luck has evened out since then.

 

Bills have been terrible in recovering opponent fumbles this year

[AlfaBill]

5 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

Very disappointing that a 3rd round rookie wasn't all pro, then no training camp, pre-season, or off season in 2nd year due to injury.  And still not all pro!

When did I say he should be an all pro? I was simply agreeing that he has been inconsistent that isn’t to say he will not improve just that he’s been struggling and that he may not be a very good OL man. Is that better?

[Mr. WEO]

"Chronic whipping boy"???

 

wtf,  this place was all OVER this dude's pole last year.  Is OP changing the definition of whipping boy?  Is it now more like "whipped cream"?

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Philo said:

 

I see your point, however my thought was broader than just Josh's fumbling. In my recollection there have been several instances of balls hitting the deck when the Bills have been on defense and they bounce right back to the only opposing player in the vicinity.

 

I don't have a stat to back it up, but I do remember someone posting some advanced stat several weeks ago showing that the Bills were, I think, the second unluckiest team in the league at the time when it came to "bad luck" bounces. Which I believe included fumble bounces as I just described as well as whose hands a tipped pass ends up in and other odd ball movements of that nature. Maybe someone else can remember what that stat was called and who came up with it. It may have been posted around midseason so perhaps the Bills luck has evened out since then.

 

Ah, OK, thanks for clarifying!  That seems like a stat which ought to be available, but, I’m not sure where.

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

Yeah he is a mauler in the run game but he can be had on speed rushes.

 

Bills have been terrible in recovering opponent fumbles this year

 

Do you know a source for these stats?

[Sierra Foothills]

On 12/19/2022 at 1:47 PM, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I thought a chronic whipping boy deserved his own thread.  I just re-watched the entire game and I thought Brown played one of his best all around games. I count 3 negative plays. He looked quite good run blocking. I saw 3 times he was beaten in the pass rush.  I'm not counting the Allen strip sack.  It was his man that got the sack but Brown rode him 10 yards past the LOS and far out of the play.  You can say he should have been with him longer but I think that sack is more on Allen.  I saw three times where he was beaten fairly cleanly with outside speed rushes but none of them resulted in negative plays.  In fact one was on the Knox TD catch.  Early on he seemed to give a bit too much ground on bull rushes but ultimately held his ground after giving up a couple steps.  

Two highlights I will mention.  First was the Allen fumble recovery.  But perhaps his finest moment was 1:1 blocking on the Cook TD catch.  He stayed with his guy and as Allen rolled past him to the right he didn't hold his opponent. He just kept his feet moving and stayed in front of him.  So often as the QB rolls and the defender starts to chase, the O-line will grab and hold.  Really solid play that as we all know took a full 8 seconds.  

Look forward to what the board thinks.

 

Thanks Ethan. I'll take your word for it.

 

On 12/19/2022 at 2:39 PM, Goin Breakdown said:

Sal was saying that his issues come from blocking shorter defenders. Makes sense I guess. 

 

It does make sense. Bending knees and dropping hips are the challenge of tall O-linemen. They say "low man wins" which is tough when you're 6'8."

 

On 12/20/2022 at 3:01 AM, GreggTX said:

His athletic ability is not in question. Size, strength, speed, agility -- He has it all. If he ever puts it all together, look out. But will he?

 

 

Yes, Spencer has a high floor and a very high ceiling but he's still not reached that level of consistency that we know what level of player he is.

 

I feel like he's still improving and avoiding injuries would be really helpful to his development.

 

[Dan in Owego]

On 1/5/2023 at 9:21 PM, Warcodered said:

 

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I think he does a good job getting low on his run blocks versus DE's,  on the move and blocking down inside.   His biggest issue are the slow feet, IMO.   And that wasn't anticipated.    On paper(RAS) he looks like a very good LT prospect and I think he showed more athleticism early in 2021 before the back injury caused him to miss time.   

Dude could benefit from some dance lessons or boxing, gotta keep those feet light and moving on pass sets. He has it in him just got to unlock it.

[NORWOODS FOOT]

I like when he slammed the guy's head into the turf, the dude who fondles other players. Not right, but felt right. I was glad he didn't get his ass suspended. Thank you, Spencer!

 

(But don't you dare do it again, okay?)

[Mark Vader]

17 minutes ago, NORWOODS FOOT said:

I like when he slammed the guy's head into the turf, the dude who fondles other players. Not right, but felt right. I was glad he didn't get his ass suspended. Thank you, Spencer!

 

(But don't you dare do it again, okay?)

Yes, his impersonation of Macho Man Randy Savage on Christian Wilkens was the only thing I remember about Brown in that game.

 

I was shocked that he didn't get flagged for that. Still loved seeing him stand up for Josh.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Matches with what PFF thought.

 

69.0 overall.

 

74 snaps.

 

0 sacks allowed, 0 penalties.

 

I know there was another thread going around that had him with 6 pressures allowed, most of the OLine.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

On 12/19/2022 at 5:25 PM, mannc said:

I did not pay particular attention to Brown, but I thought the O-line as a whole had a very good game, especially in pass pro.  As you point out, the strip sack by Phillips was really because Josh held the ball too long. 

 

I could not help noticing that Bradley Chubb was a complete non-factor.  He lined up mostly on the Dolphins' right edge (against Dawkins) and he never even got a whiff of Josh.  I could not be more delighted that the Dolphins traded a first round pick for this guy (and gave him a ton of money).  He looks like a JAG. 

 

  

This is not true; Chubb had a strip sack late that nearly changed the game. From Jim KubiK’s Buffalo News analysis:

 

’On third-and-10, Bradley Chubb nearly changed the outcome with this great pass rush to Allen’s left.

This view gives you a taste of how disruptive and smothering the Dolphins’ man-to-man defense was as Allen had nowhere to go with the football. The press-man coverage took away quick, easy throws, which forced Allen to hold the football. Press-man is feast or famine: If a defense can disrupt timing and create incompletions while simultaneously forcing the quarterback to wait longer than he wants to, that is a good formulal for winning. The trouble is that most teams don’t possess the high-quality defensive backs the Dolphins have. The combination of great cover players and a potent and physical pass rush is what made the Dolphins such a dangerous team. They were highly coordinated, physical and great in space covering down the field.

The Bills were fortunate that Spencer Brown recovered this fumble. Dion Dawkins was clearly beaten around the outside by Chubb on what initially appeared to be a five-man rush, but what was actually only a four-man rush.

Allen had a drag route by Knox immediately to his right, but also had no reason to get rid of the ball as everyone had been accounted for in his protection. He couldn’t see Chubb as he was trying to attack the man-press coverage over the top. This fumble was not Allen’s fault. It was great defensive execution, squeezing the Bills receivers with press coverage, making Allen wait, and rushing the passer with abandon. This was the Dolphins' formula, and it nearly worked.’

[mannc]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

This is not true; Chubb had a strip sack late that nearly changed the game. From Jim KubiK’s Buffalo News analysis:

 

’On third-and-10, Bradley Chubb nearly changed the outcome with this great pass rush to Allen’s left.

This view gives you a taste of how disruptive and smothering the Dolphins’ man-to-man defense was as Allen had nowhere to go with the football. The press-man coverage took away quick, easy throws, which forced Allen to hold the football. Press-man is feast or famine: If a defense can disrupt timing and create incompletions while simultaneously forcing the quarterback to wait longer than he wants to, that is a good formulal for winning. The trouble is that most teams don’t possess the high-quality defensive backs the Dolphins have. The combination of great cover players and a potent and physical pass rush is what made the Dolphins such a dangerous team. They were highly coordinated, physical and great in space covering down the field.

The Bills were fortunate that Spencer Brown recovered this fumble. Dion Dawkins was clearly beaten around the outside by Chubb on what initially appeared to be a five-man rush, but what was actually only a four-man rush.

Allen had a drag route by Knox immediately to his right, but also had no reason to get rid of the ball as everyone had been accounted for in his protection. He couldn’t see Chubb as he was trying to attack the man-press coverage over the top. This fumble was not Allen’s fault. It was great defensive execution, squeezing the Bills receivers with press coverage, making Allen wait, and rushing the passer with abandon. This was the Dolphins' formula, and it nearly worked.’

Look at the date.  My comment was from the Phins game in December, not the playoff game.  I still don’t think Chubb is more than a JAG, though.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, mannc said:

Look at the date.  My comment was from the Phins game in December, not the playoff game.  I still don’t think Chubb is more than a JAG, though.

Aha! Apologies.