I’m starting to get extremely frustrated with Dorsey.

[OldTimer1960]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Here we are, survivors of an offense-challenged 17 year playoff drought complaining about a division win in which 32 points were scored. What a time to be alive 

Point is, the success is all on Allen and Diggs.  Any success the rest have is due to defenses being focused on stopping Allen and Diggs.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, OldTimer1960 said:

Point is, the success is all on Allen and Diggs.  Any success the rest have is due to defenses being focused on stopping Allen and Diggs.

That's kind of how football works. Force them to stop your stars, let the role players pick up their game 

[UKBillFan]

Just watching the game back. On the first drive, where Josh overthrew twice to go 3-and-out, on both  he had Singletary in space with room to run from a short pass. I'm not sure if it's Dorsey's play calling or he's getting people free but they're not being used enough by Josh.

[nkreed]

9 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:

Ken ‘it’s shotgun or nothing’ Dorsey 

Morse and Bates out...your down to your last center....yeah, they'll be in shotgun the entire time to prevent mishandled snaps under center.

9 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Once Morse went out it would have been a big mistake to go under center.

 

Josh has large sure hands and even so, he was challenged on a couple of those plays.

You get it!

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

We already have had multiple bobbled snaps between Allen and VanRotten.  I would never go under center with them together.

 

8 hours ago, Old Coot said:

Some of the offense's troubles lie with our makeshift OL. Last year Josh had noticeably more time to throw when he was in the pocket and that allowed our receivers more time to get open.

 

Maybe it's Dorsey's playcalling but in his after game interview when asked about the 3r quarter performance he put it down to execution.

 

I agree that on the two deep pass plays with two receivers in the same area, that should not happen.  The play wasn't drawn up that way. One of the receivers didn't run the correct route.

 

6 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Honestly what are you supposed to do when you’ve got van roten and Bobby Hart on the offensive line.  They might be the two worst offensive linemen in the league and I don’t even think that’s hyperbole 😂. We’re missing our two mediocre depth linemen so we’ve gotta jump right to the bottom of the barrel guys when we lose a starter 

 

3 hours ago, Max Fischer said:

Maybe, just maybe, the Bills would be better if their outstanding center didn't get hurt, the starting right guard wasn't out, that their left guard wasn't terrible and the right tackle was at least consistently average. 

 

Context dude. 

I will give a small amount of leeway for HotTakes from the OP, but after a day it needs to be looked at from the critical lens. The Bills lost half their Offensive playbook when VanRoten went in. There were not going to be under center snaps, so that led to shotgun only plays. Heck they lost 5 yards on a kneel because of the snap issues. 

 

I get the need to harp on Dorsey, but maybe their Offensive plan from the first half would have continued I'm the second if Morse wasn't hurt. We'll never know.

 

[Thurman#1]

9 hours ago, FireChans said:

That’s fine. I admit, it’s not like the Bills are bad.

 

Do you think the offense is operating to its full potential?

 

 

No.

 

But neither is KC. Or anyone else. 

 

Everyone - absolutely every single team or unit in history - has ups and downs and leaves meat on the bone. That's the way complicated team endeavors work. Particularly endeavors manned by human beings, who are imperfect.

 

But more, your question here is dumb.

 

Assuming that if the offense is operating poorly it must be the OC's fault is just bad thinking.

 

Does he need to get better? Sure. But we heard for the last four years from plenty on here how awful Daboll was when the offense was having problems. Now the same folks wish they had him back. And if he were back, you'd be attacking him again.

 

The OC is the traditional scapegoat. 

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No.

 

But neither is KC. Or anyone else. 

 

Everyone - absolutely every single team or unit in history - has ups and downs and leaves meat on the bone. That's the way complicated team endeavors work. Particularly endeavors manned by human beings, who are imperfect.

 

But more, your question here is dumb.

 

Assuming that if the offense is operating poorly it must be the OC's fault is just bad thinking.

 

Does he need to get better? Sure. But we heard for the last four years from plenty on here how awful Daboll was when the offense was having problems. Now the same folks wish they had him back. And if he were back, you'd be attacking him again.

 

The OC is the traditional scapegoat. 

lol i literally said this in my OP.

 

I also loved Daboll, so be wronger.

Edited December 18, 2022 by FireChans

[Doc]

21 minutes ago, nkreed said:

Morse and Bates out...your down to your last center....yeah, they'll be in shotgun the entire time to prevent mishandled snaps under center.

You get it!

 

 

 

I will give a small amount of leeway for HotTakes from the OP, but after a day it needs to be looked at from the critical lens. The Bills lost half their Offensive playbook when VanRoten went in. There were not going to be under center snaps, so that led to shotgun only plays. Heck they lost 5 yards on a kneel because of the snap issues. 

 

I get the need to harp on Dorsey, but maybe their Offensive plan from the first half would have continued I'm the second if Morse wasn't hurt. We'll never know.

 

Yeah, I noticed that and wondered if it was to give Bass more room to kick or a center-QB exchange issue.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

8 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

No.

 

But neither is KC. Or anyone else. 

 

Everyone - absolutely every single team or unit in history - has ups and downs and leaves meat on the bone. That's the way complicated team endeavors work. Particularly endeavors manned by human beings, who are imperfect.

 

But more, your question here is dumb.

 

Assuming that if the offense is operating poorly it must be the OC's fault is just bad thinking.

 

Does he need to get better? Sure. But we heard for the last four years from plenty on here how awful Daboll was when the offense was having problems. Now the same folks wish they had him back. And if he were back, you'd be attacking him again.

 

The OC is the traditional scapegoat. 

It’s kind of funny to me because this is honestly the most consistent the bills have ever looked on a game to game basis 😂. 2020 might amount to a better win percentage but we got absolutely spanked by the titans and chiefs back to back.  We also looked absolutely dreadful quite a few times last season.  
 

Some of the criticism is valid but I think a lot of the issue is some of our fans can’t handle close games and also they’re just not used to the jets and dolphins actually being good teams now lol 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[Paup 1995MVP]

58 minutes ago, peterpan said:

To me it was super evident last night that the Dolphins were the more complete and better coached team.  
 

But the Bills have Josh Allen.

 

Josh is at his worst when he thinks he has to do it all himself and plays hero ball.  With this coaching staff, they basically call the game like “Josh we got nothing you’re gonna have to do it all yourself”

Your first sentence.  Seriously??  The Bills were down 29-21 early in the 4th qtr.  They then marched on two long drives in the 4th qtr to take the victory.  What am I missing?  In crunch time we took over.  Dorsey is fine.  We don't need a dink and dunk offense with Josh Allen.  That's stupid.  The construction of the roster is not nearly as strong as many wanted to believe at the start of the season.  O line is mediocre at best when healthy.  And we need more weapons on offense. ( Keeping Kumerow over Hudgins at WR was an awful move.)  The defense has had lots of injuries.  And without Von there is not a lot rushing the passer.

 

That being said, this is the 2022 version of the Buffalo Bills.  We have a special player at the most important position.  And another special player at WR.  Is that enough to beat Cinci and/or KC in the AFC playoffs, and then either San Fran or Philly in the Super Bowl, we shall see.  But don't say that Mike McDaniel outcoached Sean McDermott.  That's just stupid.  The Bills did not fold when down a score in the 4th qtr.  They have lost 3 games by 8 points this year.  They are a tough gritty team.  If anything our deficiencies are on Beane and not the coaching staff.

[Malazan]

1 hour ago, Epstein's Mother said:

I'm pretty sure Dorsey doesn't have a play called "everybody go deep".  There are multiple options available on every called passing play.  I have seen very little commentary on the fact that execution could be a contributing factor to what people are perceiving as offensive struggles.

 

We know that there are multiple options on every single play. Could you let us know what color the sky is too?

[nemhoff]

JUST F'IN RUN IT ON 3 and 1

[T master]

Extremely frustrated at 11 & 3 boy i bet you were a barrel of laughs in the time between 99 till McD & company got here how many times did someone have to talk you off the ledge in those 17 yrs ?? 😆

[billsfan_34]

9 hours ago, billsfan_34 said:

Dorsey calls the plays within Allens skillset and lets him improvise- no problem with Dorsey here.

Funny- 2 vomits when we have won 5 in a row 😂🤣😂

[TN Bills Fan]

One of the ways I like to evaluate coaches is to see if young players develop and see if they use veterans correctly.  Dorsey, Kromer, and Hall get failing grades in that department.  Gabe Davis has regressed even from where he was 2 years ago.  Mackenzie either was never good enough or has regressed.  Shakir is invisible.  Hodgins was poorly evaluated.  Instead they end up grasping at 2 limited veterans at the end of the season.  Dawkins seems to get run around in the passing game more than he has in the past.  That has to be sloppy technique (coaching).  Saffold and Bates are a mess.  Spencer Brown was dominate the second half last year and has regressed.  Morse has been excellent in the run game but has always gotten run over by the pass rush-no regression there.  Knox has leveled off even though he is paid as if they thought he would take a jump.  Diggs is excellent but he suddenly can't get the ball.  If Josh is Superman they will score 30.  Does that beat the Chiefs, Bengals,   Chargers in the playoffs or Eagle/49ers in the Super Dowl?  Maybe, but unlikely to beat 2 or 3 of them.  

Edited December 18, 2022 by TN Bills Fan

[BillsFanSD]

I'm not qualified to evaluate how good a job Dorsey is doing, but a) everything seems noticeably harder on offense than it was before the bye; (2) the offense really does seem to rely on Josh Allen being superman with comparatively little bright play design; (3) I don't understand the obsession with called handoffs on 2nd and 10. 

 

If the Bills do their normal end-of-year evaluations and bring Dorsey back next season, I'm fine with that.  If they decide to move on from Dorsey, I'm fine with that too.  I'm not sure that he's doing a bad job, but I also haven't seen anything to make me think that he's doing a good job either.  

[Epstein's Mother]

56 minutes ago, Malazan said:

 

We know that there are multiple options on every single play. Could you let us know what color the sky is too?

 

I know that people are aware of that.  I just wasn't sure you were.  Thanks for clearing that up.  

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

11 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Once Morse went out it would have been a big mistake to go under center.

 

Josh has large sure hands and even so, he was challenged on a couple of those plays.

the first three picks in the 2023 draft better be offensive linemen.

[Comebackkid]

Thinking about this, this morning..heres what i found interesting.    The Bills said they had two game plans, one for no snow and one for snow.   

So we seen the first game plan, boom or bust plays, abandon the run for the most part.   Then the snow starts and we see game plan number 2.  

A mix of quick shorter throws and decent mixture of running and the bills go right down  the field pretty effortlessly.   Not to mention that this makes 

miami defenders nervous enough to get holding calls.  

So this got me wondering if the whole idea the bills being an explosive, big play offense is in both Dorsey and Allens head and its like they are trying to 

force that outcome.   

When the bills are able to methodically move the chains and get the ball out quick then it opens up the big plays and the offense is quite dangerous.  

Take away the short stuff and you become very boom or bust and are much more predictable.   

 

1 hour ago, TN Bills Fan said:

One of the ways I like to evaluate coaches is to see if young players develop and see if they use veterans correctly.  Dorsey, Kromer, and Hall get failing grades in that department.  Gabe Davis has regressed even from where he was 2 years ago.  Mackenzie either was never good enough or has regressed.  Shakir is invisible.  Hodgins was poorly evaluated.  Instead they end up grasping at 2 limited veterans at the end of the season.  Dawkins seems to get run around in the passing game more than he has in the past.  That has to be sloppy technique (coaching).  Saffold and Bates are a mess.  Spencer Brown was dominate the second half last year and has regressed.  Morse has been excellent in the run game but has always gotten run over by the pass rush-no regression there.  Knox has leveled off even though he is paid as if they thought he would take a jump.  Diggs is excellent but he suddenly can't get the ball.  If Josh is Superman they will score 30.  Does that beat the Chiefs, Bengals,   Chargers in the playoffs or Eagle/49ers in the Super Dowl?  Maybe, but unlikely to beat 2 or 3 of them.  

the strangest thing to me is they arent happy with the player production they are getting so they bring in free agents left and right at times..but then they maybe game plan or or two plays for them and they disapear.  I think that the game planing and player utilization is done through collective tunnel vision.   

not to mention the game plays are about as vanilla as you can get.   

[Comebackkid]

1 hour ago, BillsFanSD said:

I'm not qualified to evaluate how good a job Dorsey is doing, but a) everything seems noticeably harder on offense than it was before the bye; (2) the offense really does seem to rely on Josh Allen being superman with comparatively little bright play design; (3) I don't understand the obsession with called handoffs on 2nd and 10. 

 

If the Bills do their normal end-of-year evaluations and bring Dorsey back next season, I'm fine with that.  If they decide to move on from Dorsey, I'm fine with that too.  I'm not sure that he's doing a bad job, but I also haven't seen anything to make me think that he's doing a good job either.  

i dont understand the obsession with shotgun handoffs in short yardage situations.   ( we have one yard to go...lets toss the ball back to the 5 yard line with a 

horrible o-line and pray for the best)   

[GolfandBills]

2 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Point is, the success is all on Allen and Diggs.  Any success the rest have is due to defenses being focused on stopping Allen and Diggs.

And yet teams for the most part can’t stop it 

Edited December 18, 2022 by GolfandBills