WR Position and my thoughts

[Warriorspikes51]

34 minutes ago, Charles Romes said:

Shakir’s lack of production is shocking, after all the reports on how advanced his route running is.  He must be getting zero separation from CB3 every play. I did not see much burst on his college tape (he looked like Sills to me) but bought into all the hype coming out of camp, now I’m depressed.  I can easily see him off the roster next year given the disaster that has taken place this year. 

He has produced when thrown the ball......  I think it's a matter of blocking assignments not going well? 


 

If Michael Thomas is released by the Saints I suspect he'd be interested in coming here.  Commented on twitter before giving props to our medical staff

Edited December 15, 2022 by Warriorspikes51

[Solomon Grundy]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

He has produced when thrown the ball......  I think it's a matter of blocking assignments not going well? 

If Michael Thomas is released by the Saints I suspect he'd be interested in coming here.  Commented on twitter before giving props to our medical staff

Michael Thomas comes with the 3 Ps.... Price, Price and Price

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Well…McD is gonna have to ask himself…”do I want to win or do I want the best defense ever”?  His defense is really good to great. It’s the offense that needs work now. People will argue our offensive ranking, but imo it’s very misleading. This team has holes on offense and Allen is used to covering them up. We need to build around him. 

I really like Shakir a lot, but we really need to stop getting so excited about 4th and 5th round receiver picks. For the most part, there are reasons they were passed over so many times. Sure…you will catch lightning in a bottle sometimes, but these guys drop due to a lack of something. Some overcome it, but others do not. We need to start drafting studs in the early part of the draft. 

Diggs was a fifth round draft pick. 

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

Diggs was a fifth round draft pick. 

Ahh yes…classic retort. This is why I said “sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle”. Read the whole thing. Diggs was one of the ones that has worked out but he wasn’t developed here, so it doesn’t matter as much.

 

The bottom line is that the elite talents are largely found at the top of the draft. There are anomalies, but for the most part this is how it is. 

[Solomon Grundy]

56 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

My dream pick in 1 would be Jalin Hyatt from Tennessee. Go watch a highlight video of him and tell me he wouldn’t go well with Diggs on the outside. 

He'll be LONG GONE before the Bills pick. I still want Bijan Robinson 1st if he's available at their pick. A sleeper choice maybe in rd 2 I like is Jonathan Mingo from Ole Miss. He has some big mitts and decent YAC receiver. I read an analysis that compares him to Deebo Samuel. They also compared Hyatt to Jameson Williams

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Ahh yes…classic retort. This is why I said “sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle”. Read the whole thing. Diggs was one of the ones that has worked out but he wasn’t developed here, so it doesn’t matter as much.

 

The bottom line is that the elite talents are largely found at the top of the draft. There are anomalies, but for the most part this is how it is. 

Keep your sense of humor whorl. We’re all Bills fans here. 

[Nextmanup]

My short response is I would love to see us expend heavy assets this off-season on a true "1a" receiver to be a double deadly threat with Diggs.

 

Buy a stud free agent or use first round pick on stud with size and speed in the draft.

 

QB, receiving group, and OL should be top 3 priorities for the team at all times.

 

McD being who he is, I bet we take a DT with our first pick.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Nextmanup

[TheBeaneBandit]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Recently I started a top7 wr thread. Trying to get a feel for who's our WR2?  As I expected after Diggs no one could come up with a definitive #2.  Gabe unfortunately has been inconsistent and I'm afraid he'll be that way his whole career. Knox has been open but Josh isn't looking his way as often or he's asked to block because our RT's all blow. After Gabe & Dawson the drop off is extreme. This organization has to decide to either build around Josh or keep dicking around on defensive picks.  And with a defensive HC this probably won't end the way we want.

Well said and exactly what I'm afraid of. We need to prioritize keeping the current D together for at least 2 more years and draft heavy offensive players 2 drafts in a row to preserve Josh's health.

Edited December 15, 2022 by TheBeaneBandit

[whorlnut]

11 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

He'll be LONG GONE before the Bills pick. I still want Bijan Robinson 1st if he's available at their pick. A sleeper choice maybe in rd 2 I like is Jonathan Mingo from Ole Miss. He has some big mitts and decent YAC receiver. I read an analysis that compares him to Deebo Samuel. They also compared Hyatt to Jameson Williams

I know…he’s still my dream pick though. Haha. No way a guy with hands like that and elite speed lasts until we pick. Williams was long gone last year and he had an acl. 

[Codyny13]

2 hours ago, wagne591 said:

I don't post on here much and i can't say i am a football guru when it comes to play calling and formations but I have some thoughts and concerns from an average football knowledge fan and die Hard Bills Fan so please hear me out.

 

The WR position is a concern for me as it is improving all over the lease and that is where the money is.  Our draft classes do not reflect that in recent years.  I know we have Diggs but lets be honest that is it.  When our offense started humming the past two years we also had a vet receiver as the number 2 or backup using Smoke for that roll and Sanders last year as a solid number two.  That to me is what made Gabe Davis great as a solid 3.  Gabe to me has those games where he either catches everything thrown at him or he drops everything thrown at him, you never know what you are going to get.  At least with a veteran #2 we always had another option.  This is one of the reasons i would sign OBJ now...not for this year its too late but for next year and draft a WR either in RD 1 or 2.  That is would replenish our WR corps real fast just need to find that reliable slot guy then.  Imagine

Diggs

OBJ 

Davis

Shak (who seems to catch everything under the sun just needs to learn the slot position in this offense so Beasley coming back will be big just for that)

and a round 1 or 2 pick 

 

Our receiver corps would go from a weak point this year to a strong point next year.  With just signing OBJ and hopefully you hit on that draft pick but with OBJ here if we miss on the pick next year there is always 2024 and our receiver corps doesn't drop off.  That is me.

 

I am also glad and mad we signed Beasley.  Glad for our young guys who need a savvy vet and mentor...but mad that Beasley hasn't been on our team all year long.  He was kind of the glue that kept the offense going especially on third and short always knew where the soft spot was and Josh trusted him.  

 

It makes me wonder how the heck they are using I Mac in the slot.  To me (and this is from an average fan who doesn't know how to watch film) it seems like they are always trying to get I Mac the ball while in motion for YAC yards instead of just having him use the speed as a threat and then sitting in the zone knowing that he will probably not get any YAC yards but picking up first downs.  That is what Beasley did and we miss.  I think if they used I Mac in that form his crossing patterns would be even more dynamic and unpredictable which looks to me like that is what they are now predictable always catching the ball going towards the sideline instead of in the middle of the field.  

 

I know this is long and I usually don't break it up into semi paragraphs but i am trying to do better.  Thoughts...

The issue w/ McKenzie is he doesn’t do well against zone defense, he’s a man beater. Think when the Pats played him last year, he was able to get over the top of the lb’s time and time again. Defenses typically play the bills in a 2 man shell, meaning 2 safeties over the top that can help on Diggs and Davis. That leaves McKenzie underneath to find that soft spot in between, something he’s not great at, which is exactly what Cole Beasley is great at.  Further more, these longer developing routes take too much time, time the offensive line isn’t giving Allen.  The built in ancillary routes from Cook, Hines, and McKenzie aren’t finding those spaces, allowing Josh to have trust there.

Cole will give him that safety blanket underneath, where he can read the defenders and sit down where JA can see him, which will force defenses to account for. This will allow Isaiah to move back into more of a motion, move player that can shift defenses, moving one defender from one side of the defense to the other, which in turn can open things up for the opposite side player.

[whorlnut]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

My short response is I would love to see us expend heavy assets this off-season on a true "1a" receiver to be a double deadly threat with Diggs.

 

Buy a stud free agent or use first round pick on stud with size and speed in the draft.

 

QB, receiving group, and OL should be top 3 priorities for the team at all times.

 

McD being who he is, I bet we take a DT with our first pick.

 

 

Well said. I agree about McD. I’m afraid that he will push for a safety or DL in the first. It’s just how it is with him.
 

However…I think he might have his hands full convincing Beane this year. You can’t tell me that Beane isnt fully aware where our weaknesses are right now. I’m sure he’s pissed about the e line and WR depth. That’s on him and I’m sure he’s gonna be hellbent on fixing it. 

1 minute ago, Codyny13 said:

The issue w/ McKenzie is he doesn’t do well against zone defense, he’s a man beater. Think when the Pats played him last year, he was able to get over the top of the lb’s time and time again. Defenses typically play the bills in a 2 man shell, meaning 2 safeties over the top that can help on Diggs and Davis. That leaves McKenzie underneath to find that soft spot in between, something he’s not great at, which is exactly what Cole Beasley is great at.  Further more, these longer developing routes take too much time, time the offensive line isn’t giving Allen.  The built in ancillary routes from Cook, Hines, and McKenzie aren’t finding those spaces, allowing Josh to have trust there.

Cole will give him that safety blanket underneath, where he can read the defenders and sit down where JA can see him, which will force defenses to account for. This will allow Isaiah to move back into more of a motion, move player that can shift defenses, moving one defender from one side of the defense to the other, which in turn can open things up for the opposite side player.

The issue with McKenzie is he’s a gadget guy and not a full time slot. 

[Simon Says]

I don't know why I'm wasting my time...but you seem to ignore the fact Davis is among leaders in YPC...and that Bills just brought back 2 vets who were productive here. Also,looks like they are trying to improve the running game. So...

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Herb Nightly said:

I don't know why I'm wasting my time...but you seem to ignore the fact Davis is among leaders in YPC...and that Bills just brought back 2 vets who were productive here. Also,looks like they are trying to improve the running game. So...

Sometimes the simplest answers are the best. The Bills have clearly recognized a deficiency in their passing game production so they’re looking anywhere they can to improve it at this late point in the season. But unlike the bolstering they did earlier in the secondary, this clearly perceived lack of production isn’t from recent injuries. The guys they brought to the dance aren’t getting it done. 

[whorlnut]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sometimes the simplest answers are the best. The Bills have clearly recognized a deficiency in their passing game production so they’re looking anywhere they can to improve it at this late point in the season. But unlike the bolstering they did earlier in the secondary, this clearly perceived lack of production isn’t from recent injuries. The guys they brought to the dance aren’t getting it done. 

Exactly right. Beasley and Brown were brought on due to availability and need. The Davis hype has died down and McKenzie is just not good. I still think Davis can be ok but he’s not what we expected and he’s not signed past next year. We already have a lot invested in Allen, Diggs, and knox and I expect them to let him walk. 

[nosejob]

I get tired of all the griping about the WRs. With no Brown/ Sanders/ Beasley/ Crowder thus far, teams can throw extra coverage at Davis, who at times has had ankle issues.

As far as  Shakir, putting him and Dirty out there to run the same routes/occupy the same area probably doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of game day numbers, hence the vet gets the reps.

 

Isaiah has saved our ass a few times this year. Davis hasn't had a 4td 200 yd game yet so he sucks, right? I'm smart enough not to hold my breath on that.

As far as drops, yeah they suck, but every team has them and at times ( like last week), Josh's accuracy has left a bit to be desired. We do not have Stretch Armstrong on this team.

 

Knox has had to pass protect way too much. Our Oline sucks out loud. Did I forget anything?

[Gunsgoodtime]

4 hours ago, Charles Romes said:

Shakir’s lack of production is shocking, after all the reports on how advanced his route running is.  He must be getting zero separation from CB3 every play. I did not see much burst on his college tape (he looked like Sills to me) but bought into all the hype coming out of camp, now I’m depressed.  I can easily see him off the roster next year given the disaster that has taken place this year. 

He was a late 5th round draft pick, im not sure why anyone had high hopes for him.  If McDermott goes into the next draft and uses most our capital on defense, and spends league leading type money on defense, I will hop aboard the train a few others are on now, his seat will be getting hot imo, because he puts so little emphasis on the offense.  Did nothing to upgrade line this year, let Beasley go, let Sanders go, addresses with an uninspiring Crowder, 5th rd pick and boost McKenzie and Davis up the deptht chart, all being downgrades

Edited December 15, 2022 by Gunsgoodtime

[Gunsgoodtime]

3 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

I'd like to see us draft a really fast WR with proven hands to stretch the field. He can be taller and win the jump balls or just be fast and tough like DeSean Jackson but he has to have a proven history of catching. Much like the "you can't teach accuracy" argument (which is not 100% true but more often than not it does apply), it seems like many receivers still have drop issues many years into the pros (Knox, Davis, McKenzie)...

 

And invest a top pick on this. Then O-line.

Wr, Oline, Wr Oline, S, then whatever next years draft.  Enough with the uninspiring defensive high round draft picks.  They might not have a job now if they didn't strike gold with Allen with the same draft, fa strategy they have used to this point

[ticketssince61]

4 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

My question is will they address this problem in the offseason with the attention it needs? Is there a receiver in the draft that can come in and produce immediately like Wilson, Olave?

 

Those type of receiver generally aren't around at the end of the 1st round.  Wilson and Olave were picked #10 and #11

 

[whorlnut]

3 minutes ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

Those type of receiver generally aren't around at the end of the 1st round.  Wilson and Olave were picked #10 and #11

 

True, but if Beane can jump up a few spots to get a corner that doesn’t fit our scheme, then I would hope he’d do the same for a WR for our franchise qb. 

[billykay]

13 minutes ago, ticketssince61 said:

 

Those type of receiver generally aren't around at the end of the 1st round.  Wilson and Olave were picked #10 and #11

 

Wasn't Jefferson a late 1st pick ?