DaQuan Jones: Best Beane free agent signing in years

[Logic]

18 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

He's been a really good player on a defense that has underwhelmed compared to years past

The Bills defense is ranked:

2nd in the league in DVOA
2nd in the league in PPG allowed

9th in the league in YPG allowed

The Bills have the second best point differential in the league and are the AFC's current 1-seed at 10-3, in large part because of the defense.

This, despite an absolutely ridiculous rash of injuries, including Tre'Davious White missing half the season, Micah Hyde on IR, and now Von Miller on IR.

I mean I GUESS you can say they have underwhelmed, but I would disagree.
 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Logic

[GoBills808]

Just now, Logic said:

The Bills defense is ranked:

2nd in the league in DVOA
2nd in the league in PPG allowed

9th in the league in YPG allowed

This, despite an absolutely ridiculous rash of injuries, including Tre'Davious White missing half the season, and now Micah Hyde and Von Miller on IR.

I mean I GUESS you can say they have underwhelmed, but I would disagree.
 

9th in yards is underwhelming

 

19th vs the pass is concerning

 

Injuries have certainly played a factor

[wppete]

What an improvement over Star. Great signing and a local guy. 

[Logic]

9 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

9th in yards is underwhelming

 

19th vs the pass is concerning

 

Injuries have certainly played a factor

Fair enough.

They were also 13th against the rush last year, but are 4th this year.

I think that being better against the run necessarily leads to giving up more passing yards, and the injuries and turnover at CB and S have certainly not helped.

[dorquemada]

25 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

 

But Star clogged up the middle!

 

only thing that guy clogged up was the toilet at 1bd

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Logic said:

DaQuan Jones has been an absolute beast this year, and I just wanted to take a moment to recognize it.

Against the run. Against the pass. Taking on double teams. Shedding blocks. 

He has been the one consistently healthy Bills defensive tackle this year, and he's also been the best DT on the team.

The ripple effect of Jones' great play has also helped the defensive ends have greater success, and has allowed Edmunds and Milano to flow to the ball more freely.

An absolute homerun signing. Unlike in the case of Star Lotulelei, who was controversial for all of his years here, I think every Bills fan can agree that DaQuan Jones has been a home run signing by Brandon Beane. Arguably his best free agent signing of the past few years.

Very, very glad this man is a Buffalo Bill.

Probably between him or Jordan Phillips. He’s spent a lot of money on DTs and missed as well. Lotulelei, Jefferson, and Butler. A lot of wasted money spent at DT.

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

9th in yards is underwhelming

 

19th vs the pass is concerning

 

Injuries have certainly played a factor

Injuries have been the factor. We’ve had every top player on defense out multiple games.

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

I'm not sure who Bowers is.

DaQuan Jones has been excellent, though. Worth every penny. Definitely NOT a luxury. A crucial piece of the defense. 

 

DaQuan Bowers was a TB DE some years ago.

 

Sure, Jones has played well and was a good signing, but he has a 3.6M cap hit this year and is down for 8.6 next.  2022 is manageable, but if they cut him, it's 7M in dead cap next year so they're limited by what they can do then...at that price.  Which means they'll have a 1T at that cap hit while being 7-9M over cap on an expected 229-231M cap next year.   

 

This team cannot afford Jones at his position at 8.6M for 2023.  Not when they need another WR, probably 1-2 OL, and both starting safeties aren't signed for 2023.  Not to mention no MLB either.   

 

There's a macro level there that needs to be talked about.  I know people want to revel in feeling good, but this off-season is gonna be something Bills fans haven't seen since 2000.  

[GreggTX]

I don't know that he's better than Oliver, but the difference in our run defense has been huge.

 

[vtnatefootball11]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

DaQuan Bowers was a TB DE some years ago.

 

Sure, Jones has played well and was a good signing, but he has a 3.6M cap hit this year and is down for 8.6 next.  2022 is manageable, but if they cut him, it's 7M in dead cap next year so they're limited by what they can do then...at that price.  Which means they'll have a 1T at that cap hit while being 7-9M over cap on an expected 229-231M cap next year.   

 

This team cannot afford Jones at his position at 8.6M for 2023.  Not when they need another WR, probably 1-2 OL, and both starting safeties aren't signed for 2023.  Not to mention no MLB either.   

 

There's a macro level there that needs to be talked about.  I know people want to revel in feeling good, but this off-season is gonna be something Bills fans haven't seen since 2000.  

 

Just gonna gloss over the fact that you confused Bowers with Jones haha?   

Regardless, before the season I would have agreed with you that he was a luxury signing, similar to Star.  But you cannot possibly say that now with the way he has played.  For 2023, Phillips and Settle are maybe luxuries, but not Jones.  He's a must keep.  Plus, as you pointed out, cutting him would create $7m in dead cap, so in fact, they actually can afford him at $8.6m.  What they can't afford is to cut him. 

Edited December 15, 2022 by vtnatefootball11

[machine gun kelly]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Bowers has been excellent this year and leads DLinmen this season(with 60%) in snap count.      

 

But it's guys like Bowers who are a luxury on this team and, as a 1T, the question is he worth it at 8.5M for a cap hit next season?  Especially when you consider they have upgrades across the offense to make for 2023 and less cap room to work with now that Josh's contract is kicking in.   The cap will change, but they are almost 9M over in 2023 if the cap is 231M and have 2023 contracts of 107M in defensive players.  

 

The best teams in the NFL do not maintain an 8-9 man DL and Buffalo has 8 under contract for next season at almost 47M.  At some point they'll need to consider how much spending on defense in total inhibits their ability to surround Josh with better talent.       

Bowers?

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

DaQuan Bowers was a TB DE some years ago.

 

Sure, Jones has played well and was a good signing, but he has a 3.6M cap hit this year and is down for 8.6 next.  2022 is manageable, but if they cut him, it's 7M in dead cap next year so they're limited by what they can do then...at that price.  Which means they'll have a 1T at that cap hit while being 7-9M over cap on an expected 229-231M cap next year.   

 

This team cannot afford Jones at his position at 8.6M for 2023.  Not when they need another WR, probably 1-2 OL, and both starting safeties aren't signed for 2023.  Not to mention no MLB either.   

 

There's a macro level there that needs to be talked about.  I know people want to revel in feeling good, but this off-season is gonna be something Bills fans haven't seen since 2000.  

 

Hyde IS signed for 2023. Poyer isn't. If they re-sign Edmunds it will be on a pretty reasonable 2023 hit. Equally extending Ed Oliver would lower his 2023 hit. 

 

I absolutely agree that they need to prioritise offensive upgrades in 2023 and the cap situation is getting tighter but I don't think they are in a desperate spot yet. There is some straightforward cut / restructure work. 

 

I want them to bring in at least one offensive line upgrade in FA and a baseline starting vet at safety. Then use the draft for receiver and oline early and safety mid rounds.

[nosejob]

4 hours ago, dorquemada said:

 

only thing that guy clogged up was the toilet at 1bd

But he took up 2 of them.....

[BillsVet]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hyde IS signed for 2023. Poyer isn't. If they re-sign Edmunds it will be on a pretty reasonable 2023 hit. Equally extending Ed Oliver would lower his 2023 hit. 

 

I absolutely agree that they need to prioritise offensive upgrades in 2023 and the cap situation is getting tighter but I don't think they are in a desperate spot yet. There is some straightforward cut / restructure work. 

 

I want them to bring in at least one offensive line upgrade in FA and a baseline starting vet at safety. Then use the draft for receiver and oline early and safety mid rounds.

 

He is signed for '23...at a 10M cap hit...one of 7 on the defense next year with hits over 9M.  That's why I laugh when people talk about re-signing Poyer, Edmunds, and Phillips while extending Oliver to keep the band back together.  They can't afford it without making big changes elsewhere.

 

I always ask, what's the benefit of having the league's best defense and stocking it every year only to have Josh take hits?  Because it's guys like Jones that people laud and rightly so, but at some point the McD's defensive shopping list has to be changed.  

 

It's why I see Beane merely as the guy who gets the ingredients to what the cook wants.  Argue all you want, but when the draft board and UFAs invariably trend toward defense something is amiss.  5 1st rounders used on defense versus 2 on offense makes that case, not to mention the underwhelming offensive UFAs signed this last off-season.  They always have money for defense, but when there's little left it gives some posters here the fall-back excuse of saying they didn't have any money.  

[nosejob]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Hyde IS signed for 2023. Poyer isn't. If they re-sign Edmunds it will be on a pretty reasonable 2023 hit. Equally extending Ed Oliver would lower his 2023 hit. 

 

I absolutely agree that they need to prioritise offensive upgrades in 2023 and the cap situation is getting tighter but I don't think they are in a desperate spot yet. There is some straightforward cut / restructure work. 

 

I want them to bring in at least one offensive line upgrade in FA and a baseline starting vet at safety. Then use the draft for receiver and oline early and safety mid rounds.

I'm excited to see how Beane builds this Oline and you can bet ur ass this is his next step. I know it's early but a thread exploring the 2023 draft would be interesting. There are some mock drafts already out there. On another note, I'm all for giving Poyer a 1 yr. deal for next year. I believe we have one more year to build a future safety tandem.

Edited December 15, 2022 by nosejob

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I am with you! He has been great. LAMP!
 

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by EmotionallyUnstable

[BullBuchanan]

He's been excellent. Admittedly I thought they paid him a bit too much at the time, but he's been one of our most consistent players on the DL and I'm glad he's here.

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

He is signed for '23...at a 10M cap hit...one of 7 on the defense next year with hits over 9M.  That's why I laugh when people talk about re-signing Poyer, Edmunds, and Phillips while extending Oliver to keep the band back together.  They can't afford it without making big changes elsewhere.

 

I always ask, what's the benefit of having the league's best defense and stocking it every year only to have Josh take hits?  Because it's guys like Jones that people laud and rightly so, but at some point the McD's defensive shopping list has to be changed.  

 

It's why I see Beane merely as the guy who gets the ingredients to what the cook wants.  Argue all you want, but when the draft board and UFAs invariably trend toward defense something is amiss.  5 1st rounders used on defense versus 2 on offense makes that case, not to mention the underwhelming offensive UFAs signed this last off-season.  They always have money for defense, but when there's little left it gives some posters here the fall-back excuse of saying they didn't have any money.  

 

I have never used the excuse of them not having the money. Not once. And they need to focus more on offense. I agree with that. They have 6, not 7, on defense at a 2023 cap of over $9m, and Ed will almost certainly not play on the option. They will extend him and lower the hit. 

 

The top end of their roster is balanced. Four big O hits and four big D hits. I agree the mid roster is defense heavy. 

 

Where I disagree is the implication that their investment on D prevents them from doing what they need to do on O. It doesn't. Von as a big swing reduces their flexibility. That's true. But they can absolutely still make the moves they need to make. The cap is plenty malleable enough for them still.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by GunnerBill

[1st&ten]

7 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Needs to change his first name to

DEACON

If I recall right Deacon played most or all of his career before sacks were recorded as a stat. According to him he had more sacks than Reggie White & Bruce Smith combined. He was a great player though. I miss the old head\helmet slap which he used to use & then the league banned it.

Edited December 15, 2022 by 1st&ten

[First Round Bust]

7 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

I just thought about him last night when I was thinking about our 2023 salary cap.

 

I was wondering if it was possible that Beane extends him thus offseason to lower his 2023 cap hit and secure him a little longer - e.g. 2 years extension, which would essentially be 1 year extension with possible out after 2024.

 

I think it is fairly likely.

right...his cap number jumps 5M to 8.5M next season - he is going to be 31 soon as well- good news is that on top of quality of play he has a history of durability - but of course a lot of mileage on that body...his 2024 year automatically voids 23 days before the 2024 league year and already has a 1.8M dead cap 

[BillsVet]

29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have never used the excuse of them not having the money. Not once. And they need to focus more on offense. I agree with that. They have 6, not 7, on defense at a 2023 cap of over $9m, and Ed will almost certainly not play on the option. They will extend him and lower the hit. 

 

The top end of their roster is balanced. Four big O hits and four big D hits. I agree the mid roster is defense heavy. 

 

Where I disagree is the implication that their investment on D prevents them from doing what they need to do on O. It doesn't. Von as a big swing reduces their flexibility. That's true. But they can absolutely still make the moves they need to make. The cap is plenty malleable enough for them still.

 

 

I'm not pointing at you with that reasoning, but it's popular here with some.    

 

The 7 I referenced are: Miller, White, Hyde, T. Johnson, MIlano, Oliver, and Jones (he of 8.6M).  If you assume they'll re-sign Oliver, then your wish to see offensive upgrades just took a hit.  What do you think Oliver gets?  I wouldn't be surprised if he clocks in with Jonathan Allen type extension of 18M AAV.

 

I'm not implying their spending on defense inhibits offensive spending, I'm saying it's reality.  Most Bills fans wish away problems by saying the cap will go up...but they've never paid a QB in the cap era 1/6th of their cap either.    

 

That consideration means something has to give.  The defensive scheme needs to become lower cost while retaining the same or similar value.  Buffalo can't go out and sign UFA's on defense like they have these past few years, improve the offense, and pay Josh.  They ain't got the money nor have the players to re-structure to free the amount necessary to do all these things.  They've already re-done Dawkins and Tre's deals in the last few months.