Josh Allen's Elbow

[Beck Water]

39 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

My own insular, purely amateur, but also kind-of-observant thinking was ALSO that Allen could have been dealing with an injury suffered in the GB game prior to the sudden onset of his red zone yips. So many oddly unpropelled throws while moving to his right. Throws that just had NO thrust.

 

I actually thought he'd hit his hand on a helmet. Didn't he? Of course he publicly denied his hand was actually hurt (supporting at least that this hand-to-helmet thing happened, IF Allen addressed it), but we all know that something changed, and changed quickly. I might be conflating a play from near the end of the Miami game with something else, mind you. But it DID seem like something happened against GB. 

 

It doesn't HAVE to be injury-related. It could be a simple dip in his play from absolutely ELITE, BEST-EVER level (including last season's playoffs) to something less godlike. I mean wow, what a run he had there. Time to adjust now. Looks like it's working. Let's go.

 

Yeah, it just seemed like all of a sudden (starting in the 2nd half of the GB game) the ball just wasn't going where he wanted it to go. 

 

I don't think that's a "simple dip in his play".  What it reminded me of, was when Allen hurt his L shoulder and went to the locker room just before halftime in the 2020 Raiders game.  The Bills were leading 17-13 and won 30-23, but Allen was 16/20 (80%) in the first half, and 8/14 (57%) in the 2nd half.

 

Allen had been rocking like 71% completion, 332 ypg in the first 4 games

Next 4 games, 61.5%, 212 ypg.  Allen was visibly wearing a linebacker brace on his L shoulder and was on the injury report.

 

Pundits were having a field day about how he was "regressing".  Terry Bradshaw sneered "a 50% completion passer, that's all he'll ever be".  The only one who "got it" was Matt Hasselbeck, who had a similar injury in his own career and said before the Seahawks game, "the good news for Josh Allen is that it will heal, and the bad news for the Seahawks is that just about now, Allen is probably starting to feel pretty good".  Allen threw for 415 yds, 82% completions against the Seahawks and basically didn't look back the rest of the year.

 

I think it's been a problem for Josh this year because a lot of his completions were about zipping the ball into a tight window, instead of about scheming a guy open and/or taking the easy throw.  So losing that precision, meant more of those tight window throws become incompletions/interceptions and struggles to move the ball.

 

I'd like to think we're having a window where the offense struggles a bit while Allen's elbow "gets right", but the "forseeable future" bit isn't encouraging.

 

28 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I think this is fear mongering at its finest (by the media; not the OP).

 

He's not 100%, but who is at week 15? 

 

It's colder than a witch's tit out there and I'm sure that makes him require more stretching/work to be done on his throwing arm. 

 

If his receivers didn't drop a billion passes last week, he'd have had a great game an no one would be batting an eye at this.  The vast majority of his passes were accurate.  He's fine.

 

I like your take.  And yeah, I guess you're correct that colder weather means more stretching is needed before he throws.

 

I dunno that Brown is "fearmongering" (I get it people think he's not really a Bills fan); I think it's legitimately something he hadn't seen before that went on for long enough that it attracted his attention, but, as you say, a change in the routine due to a change in the weather could be the explanation.

 

Edited December 15, 2022 by Beck Water

[TBBills Fan]

Side note.  Josh Allen' Elbow would make a fantastic screen name lol

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said:

It's clear to me now that the Bills are going to euthanize Josh.

The grounds crew was seen building a shed on the back 40

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I agree but why wasn't that the plan 3 years ago. Why is the obvious taking so damn long. This organization should've put priority 1 building a monster OL around Josh rather than dicking around drafting marginal DE's.

They've brought in plenty of OLs. I don't think the problem is lack of trying, I think it's a problem with their talent evaluation and/or development on the OL. There was a lot of hope that Aaron Kromer could do something with these guys.

[SydneyBillsFan]

5 hours ago, RiotAct said:

Amputate.

 

Which arm?

[CEN-CAL17]

Here’s the deal…. Whenever you have potential injuries, soreness etc…. You don’t just treat the direct area. The human body we all know is connected and functions all together. 
 

Example, if you have feet issues… you don’t just massage and stretch your feet. You stretch your Achilles, your calves, you hamstrings…. They are all connected and function together.

 

For Josh’s elbow, I would assume the work his elbow, his biceps, triceps, upper and lower arms, his shoulders, delts, lats everything has deals with throwing….

[nucci]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

I thought there was a thread on this from a week or 2 ago, but couldn't find it.

 

It was noted that Allen was getting his shoulder and elbow stretched out, ON THE FIELD, before practice today

 

Banged up Bills had this to say about it (I'm not sure what he means by "distraction observed too", Anyone?

 

 

There's another video clip where at the end, Josh can be seen lying on the ground with his shoulder/elbow being worked on.

 

I wish we could persuade our guy to stop running down the field like a human Wrecking Ball and slide more.

He got hurt getting hit in the pocket, not by running

[LeGOATski]

15 minutes ago, nucci said:

He got hurt getting hit in the pocket, not by running

Yep, where most of the bad injuries happen

[Captain Hindsight]

5 hours ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

Here’s the deal…. Whenever you have potential injuries, soreness etc…. You don’t just treat the direct area. The human body we all know is connected and functions all together. 
 

Example, if you have feet issues… you don’t just massage and stretch your feet. You stretch your Achilles, your calves, you hamstrings…. They are all connected and function together.

 

For Josh’s elbow, I would assume the work his elbow, his biceps, triceps, upper and lower arms, his shoulders, delts, lats everything has deals with throwing….

I was having back issues, went to my doctor and he gave me shoe insoles for my feet to help me walk more consistently. Basically retrained my feet how to walk. No more back problems 

[Dr. Who]

8 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Yeah, it just seemed like all of a sudden (starting in the 2nd half of the GB game) the ball just wasn't going where he wanted it to go. 

 

I don't think that's a "simple dip in his play".  What it reminded me of, was when Allen hurt his L shoulder and went to the locker room just before halftime in the 2020 Raiders game.  The Bills were leading 17-13 and won 30-23, but Allen was 16/20 (80%) in the first half, and 8/14 (57%) in the 2nd half.

 

Allen had been rocking like 71% completion, 332 ypg in the first 4 games

Next 4 games, 61.5%, 212 ypg.  Allen was visibly wearing a linebacker brace on his L shoulder and was on the injury report.

 

Pundits were having a field day about how he was "regressing".  Terry Bradshaw sneered "a 50% completion passer, that's all he'll ever be".  The only one who "got it" was Matt Hasselbeck, who had a similar injury in his own career and said before the Seahawks game, "the good news for Josh Allen is that it will heal, and the bad news for the Seahawks is that just about now, Allen is probably starting to feel pretty good".  Allen threw for 415 yds, 82% completions against the Seahawks and basically didn't look back the rest of the year.

 

I think it's been a problem for Josh this year because a lot of his completions were about zipping the ball into a tight window, instead of about scheming a guy open and/or taking the easy throw.  So losing that precision, meant more of those tight window throws become incompletions/interceptions and struggles to move the ball.

 

I'd like to think we're having a window where the offense struggles a bit while Allen's elbow "gets right", but the "forseeable future" bit isn't encouraging.

 

 

I like your take.  And yeah, I guess you're correct that colder weather means more stretching is needed before he throws.

 

I dunno that Brown is "fearmongering" (I get it people think he's not really a Bills fan); I think it's legitimately something he hadn't seen before that went on for long enough that it attracted his attention, but, as you say, a change in the routine due to a change in the weather could be the explanation.

 

I also suspect that Josh has been dealing with injury issues beyond ordinary wear and tear from the football season. I wonder now if it is a nagging problem that has more effect on short and mid-range throws. That may also be a factor in where he is choosing to look and what throws he favors. Of course, all speculative and perhaps nonsense.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Indeed.

 

When the injury occurred, it was said to be "short term - 2-4 weeks"

Now Allen is saying he'll be dealing with it for "the foreseeable future" (on the Pat McAfee show)

 

There's also a shadowy rumor around that Allen was dealing with some sort of shoulder sprain or strain dating from the GB game (when he took some big hits, running)

 

 

every player is nursing some sort of injury at this time and for the rest of the season.  I think much is being made about this. 

[Airseven]

30 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

every player is nursing some sort of injury at this time and for the rest of the season.  I think much is being made about this. 

 

True. But not every injury is the throwing elbow of the most important player on the field.

[BuffaloMatt]

11 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

He describes how they are dealing with the injury here. it takes a village (and some shots) …starts around 02:5

 

Who doesn't like shots? 

[hondo in seattle]

15 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I think Beane and company invest heavily in the O line during the off season. Once the line gets better then the running game will kick in and they won’t have to rely on Allen running as much

 

Exactly.

 

This is one reason I don't want OBJ.  With only so many cap dollars to go around, I'd rather spend on a bodyguard for Josh that can double as hole-makes for our backs.  

[ProcessTruster]

the guy is likely compromised to some extent and they are doing whatever they can to keep him on the field.   just like most NFL players after week 14

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Airseven said:

 

True. But not every injury is the throwing elbow of the most important player on the field.

 

True, but he seems to be throwing well.

[Mrbojanglezs]

Wouldn't be surprised if it's not fully healed and he will get surgery end of year

[Luka]

Carson Palmer Discusses Josh Allen's UCL Injury

 

Palmer's description of his experience with the injury seems to fit what Josh is experiencing since it happened. Josh's off angle and off platform throws have been much less effective since hurting the UCL and has played a major role in our reduced offensive output. 

[GreggTX]

It's clear that he's not 100%. All the more reason to upgrade the OL. He's getting hammered every week and the run blocking isn't much better. We need to focus on our offense in the next draft. I'm also starting to worry about Dorsey.

 

 

 

[Lenigmusx]

2 hours ago, GreggTX said:

It's clear that he's not 100%. All the more reason to upgrade the OL. He's getting hammered every week and the run blocking isn't much better. We need to focus on our offense in the next draft. I'm also starting to worry about Dorsey.

 

 

 

McDermott bring Mike Shula in as an OC/Quality Control consultant would indicate that the Bills brass is moderately concerned as well. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

7 hours ago, Luka said:

Carson Palmer Discusses Josh Allen's UCL Injury

 

Palmer's description of his experience with the injury seems to fit what Josh is experiencing since it happened. Josh's off angle and off platform throws have been much less effective since hurting the UCL and has played a major role in our reduced offensive output. 

75% Tear?!?

4 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Josh Allen's Elbow?

Sounds like a good screen name..

With reduced velocity, defenders have an additional few tenths of a second, to break up a play.

I noticed during the last few home games, that Allen's ball velocity, was 'off', (in my opinion)

It’s almost like you guys are rooting for this.