Isaiah McKenzie Show 12/12 - discusses drops, his role, and offensive malaise

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Catch the ball when thrown to you!! 

Simple as that.
From what I have seen so far this season is that more and better effort from him would have turned those incompletes and DROPS in to catches and perhaps score.

 I suspect Josh has been getting pissed about some of the basic mental mistakes that isaiah  has made all season

[Beck Water]

4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Yup. I thought he even said “we can’t even run the ball when it’s sunny”

 

4 hours ago, BufBills83 said:

That may have been it, I may have worded it a bit wrong.  But either way, not something you want to say.

 

I did a bunch of transcription where I went back a couple times and listened

 

What I wrote down (longer post up thread, linked above) was

"Dunne suggests "run the ball more, if it's bad weather, just run it, is it that simple?" 

 McKenzie says "No" 

 Dunne says "why not?" 

 McKenzie says "because we can barely run the ball when it's sunny out". 

 (Ouch.  McKenzie just opened a can called "Trouble" with his name on it)

 

I think it's throwing shade at all 3 of them (the OL, the RBs, and Dorsey/Kromer for play design)

You can see my reaction about the wisdom of that quoted above.

 

Anyway, I heard it as "we can barely run the ball when it's sunny out".

Edited December 13, 2022 by Beck Water

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

 

I did a bunch of transcription where I went back a couple times and listened

 

What I wrote down (longer post up thread) was

"Dunne suggests "run the ball more, if it's bad weather, just run it, is it that simple?" 

 McKenzie says "No" 

 Dunne says "why not?" 

 McKenzie says "because we can barely run the ball when it's sunny out". 

 (Ouch.  McKenzie just opened a can called "Trouble" with his name on it)

 

I think it's throwing shade at all 3 of them (the OL, the RBs, and Dorsey/Kromer for play design)

You can see my reaction about the wisdom of that quoted above.

Discretion often entails less candor, but he's not entirely wrong. 

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

JA does not seem to want to throw his way - possibly the same for Gabe Davis.  In a captain obvious way, it’s evident from the moves the Bills have made with Brown and now Beasley that they are not happy with McKenzie and possibly Davis.

 

To me, Davis is probably best suited as an “off the bench” change of pace player and not the full time #2.  Absolutely not a #1.  Lil Dirty is only gadget player and probably not on the roster in a Bills uni next year.

agreed about Lil' and Josh etc
Davis i feel is a different situation.

 Josh used to talk him up often. What changed ? Dorsey game calling ? Something did.

[Saxum]

7 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 I suspect Josh has been getting pissed about some of the basic mental mistakes that isaiah  has made all season

 

I suspect your suspicion is based up you being pissed and nothing to do with Josh.

[JGMcD2]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Passive aggressive is not more tactful, it's more assh*lish, in fact.

And nobody knows assh*lish better than @BADOLBILZ! TM

[Billsatlastin2018]

Dead Man Walking!

 

You’re in Buffalo, NY! 
 

Ergo, you ain’t in Sunny Cal or Florida or Arizona or a Dome.

 

The expectation, as a well paid NFL WR is that you catch the freaking ball and you especially catch it in the back half of the Season when cold, rain,snow and wind make life more difficult!

 

I no longer have that expectation of MacKenzie.

 

Nor, do the Bills anymore.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Billsatlastin2018

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Yet the Bills win almost all of these games. Why? The opponents are ven worse in such weather. I could point to 10 games off the top of my head. There’s also a reason the Bills chose the qb with arguably the strongest arm in league history.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/13/sports/josh-allen-bills-cold-weather-has-been-great-neutralizer/

 

Sorry but the numbers don't back up your argument. And this article just discusses the cold. Factor in rain (wet ball), wind like NE game and snow and the numbers for Josh fall even more. We can no longer live in the Jim Kelly snow game years. The organization dropped the ball on not insisting more on a dome. And they'll definitely regret it.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

1 minute ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

Dead Man Walking!

 

You’re in Buffalo, NY! 
 

Ergo, you ain’t in Sunny Cal or Florida or Arizona or a Dome.

 

The expectation, as a well paid NFL WR is that you catch the freaking ball and you especially catch it in the back half of the Season when cold, rain,snow and wind make life more difficult!

 

I no longer have that expectation of MacKenzie.

 

Nor, do the Bills anymore.

 

 

 

I only remember the one drop - was there another?  

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

I hate to say this but he reminds me of AJ Brown. Smooth route running, physical at the catch point, bodies DBs that get in his way. 🤮

Interesting comp.  Minus the 30 pounds, I like it.  For a sub 200 lb wr, he’s strong.  I think Wilson has more explosiveness/quickness - while brown more physical.  But that’s before and after the catch.  I really like the comparison with the ball in the air. 
 

I see Antonio Brown and Torry Holts love child.  

Looks special

 

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Yet the Bills win almost all of these games. Why? The opponents are ven worse in such weather. I could point to 10 games off the top of my head. There’s also a reason the Bills chose the qb with arguably the strongest arm in league history.

 

It's a great point that most fans miss. They focus so much on our play being sloppy in some of those games they they never stop to realize the other team is even sloppier. The Pats wind game is not a good example in favor of a dome - we got to play them in a game where their QB literally couldn't throw the ball. 99 times out of 100 that's a game we should win, it just took our coaches too long to realize we had a QB that could cut through the wind. I thought while watching the wildcard game last year that the Pats looked absolutely miserable in that temperature. Sure our guys weren't comfortable but they were used to it, they knew what it felt like to take an NFL hit in zero degree weather. The Pats weren't prepared at all. Mac Jones was on the bench marveling that he could see his own breath for the first time in his life. It's a HUGE advantage.

[Beck Water]

33 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

agreed about Lil' and Josh etc
Davis i feel is a different situation.

 Josh used to talk him up often. What changed ? Dorsey game calling ? Something did.

 

Just me, but I feel what changed is that teams decided they don't need to worry about covering McKenzie and Knox and Cook or Motor, and when McKenzie or Shakir are running deeper routes they are  basically clearing/decoy routes - so they can focus coverage on Davis.

 

Davis has had maybe a few concentration issues where he's failed to bring in a contested catch or a catchable ball where he's going to be hit right away, but I think the main issue is the focus of coverage, without viable alternatives in the passing game.

 

 

[Beck Water]

28 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said:

 

I only remember the one drop - was there another?  

 

There were 3 targets McKenzie didn't haul in.  One, he was trying to secure the ball as the defender pushed him out of bounds, it was ruled an incompletion and it was something like 3rd and 16, after several penalties had us 2nd and 20.  I don't think we get the 1st down.  Two, he drew a holding penalty, so it's "no play", but folks here are counting it as a drop.  We took the 5 yards and went on to score a TD. 

 

Three, was a drop on 3rd and 3 where we scored a FG and apparently there was a lot of animated discussion on the sideline because other WR were open as well.  Pretty sure that's the only one that was scored as a drop, but the tar-and-pitchforks crowd are up in arms about the 3 drops McKenzie had that single-handedly killed 3 different drives and forced us to punt.

[smuvtalker]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Complaining that he’s open all the time about if you watch the film because he’s so fast but doesn’t get the ball 

Wow.  

 

Let me throw my two cents in.  You know what?  He IS really fast.  I have beat the drum as loud as I can on multiple occasions, the guy is freakin FAST. And quick.  He has a gear noone else on the team really has IMO, with the exception of maybe Cook. I love seeing him in action, and especially love the few times seeing him make a great catch for a first down, or leave a defender in the dust.  

 

HOWEVER, those plays are far and few between, and I can think of more instances where he had a backbreaking drop to kill a drive than the times where he came through.  I said it yesterday night, I was really starting to think he was turning the corner, stepping up his okay these past couple weeks, and to me I felt like he was starting to re-win more of Josh's trust in him, and reinstill confidence in him from Josh and coaches alike.  Then what does he do Sunday?  Goes out and proceeds that have a multiple drop game YET AGAIN.  I'm tired of seeing him take one step forward to only take two steps back.  And can I please offer my opinion on what I think happened after the game?  I believe Allen burst into McDermott's office, and campaigned his BUNS off to bring Beas back.  And McBeane gladly obliged.    I think Allen finally realized that what you get with McKenzie is what you're gonna get, and spoke up, perhaps even in desperation.  

 

Look, I LIKE Isaiah McKenzie.  I like Isaiah McKenzie the person, I like IM the football player.   He has luscious, sexy quickness, and I get excited as soon as the ball gets into his hands.  He is a threat to take it to the house the moment the ball touches his hands.  But I just feel like, aside from the sporadic few moments the opportunities present themselves, what we see is what we get with him.  And it's simply nowhere near enough.  Josh probably had the last straw and said Sean, PLEASE get me somebody reliable in the slot.  Hell, even Diggs has  outperformed McKenzie in the slot WR when he's been placed there this year.  I'm willing to give Davis a mulligan this year due to his own slew of injuries.  Praying he continues to get healthy, and as the season continues he gets stronger and remains our best WR2 guy. Shakir, I'm really perplexed as to why he hasn't been given more opportunities.  Maybe coaches just don't trust him enough yet, and maybe he still will get his opportunities before the season is over.  Guys, there is still A LOT of football left to be played.  Whatever the situation is with regard to SLOT, I really hope this lights a four alarm fire underneath McKenzie most specifically, but also all the other WR's as well.  I love everything about this move, and to me, it's a win-win situation.  I believe Beasley still has plenty to offer from his position.    Our slot WR position has seen subpar play all year long, and God bless our boys who have given it their best efforts.  But ***** I'm ready to see Beasley sitting down perfectly in zones, Allen finding him, and the two of them connecting for 1st down, after 1st down, after 1st down.  

 

Let's go Buffalo!!

[dave mcbride]

28 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/13/sports/josh-allen-bills-cold-weather-has-been-great-neutralizer/

 

Sorry but the numbers don't back up your argument. And this article just discusses the cold. Factor in rain (wet ball), wind like NE game and snow and the numbers for Josh fall even more. We can no longer live in the Jim Kelly snow game years. The organization dropped the ball on not insisting more on a dome. And they'll definitely regret it.

You’re kinda missing my point. Of course his numbers go down. But I challenge you to look at the collective passer rating for opposing qbs playing in bad weather home games in 2021, of which there were many. Indeed, The Bills team passer rating rating was a below-average 83.9 vs the Jets on Sunday (but with zero turnovers and a TD run by Allen), but the Jets team passer rating was a godawful 72.38 with two fumbles by the QB (one of which was a turnover) and zero TDs. 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

6 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

But...home field advantage, no dome. Could it be true that our own players don't want to play in bad weather either?

This isn't a secret. Many of them have been very open about it.

[Beck Water]

47 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Simple as that.
From what I have seen so far this season is that more and better effort from him would have turned those incompletes and DROPS in to catches and perhaps score.   I suspect Josh has been getting pissed about some of the basic mental mistakes that isaiah  has made all season

 

You know, with all that....McKenzie has a decent catch %, 69.1%. Would he like to have more, would the Bills like him to have more?  Sure.  Has he had drops?  Sure. But to read what's read about him here, one might think he had a catch % of 46% or 47%....like........ Shakir and Crowder, the guys fans here keep crying for.    McKenzie says he's open on film, and a couple weeks back Dorsey launched into a rather impassioned defense of McKenzie as "doing everything we've asked him to do, running every route full speed, clearing routes, blocking".  So maybe he's making less "basic mental mistakes" than fans believe?

 

All our receivers have been having trouble hauling stuff in this season.  Davis has almost 700 yds and caught 3 out of 4 targets last Sunday, but he was scored with a drop, his 7th of the season, 10% drop rate - that gives him...a higher drop % than Isaiah McKenzie?  His overall catch % is 53.5%.  A goodly bunch of those were uncatchable throw-aways in his direction, but a number of those were makeable catches not "easy" enough to be scored as drops. 

 

On Sunday, the catching statistics from most of the WR were not great, especially in the first half.  Diggs finished 3 of 5, but was 1 of 3 in the first half.  Shakir, Brown and Davis all missed a catch. 

 

Knox was a bright light - he finished 4 of 7 which ain't great, but he was 4 for 4 in the first half I think. 

 

IMHO the one who should get more targets is Knox.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Lots of excuses so far about the weather - I’m about 15 min in. Garrett Wilson didn’t seem to have a problem catching the wet balls, just saying 

I listened and while I love Isaiah’s confidence, I’m not quite sure the self-assessment of his performance is as accurate as he depicts.  He’s claiming he’s been getting open but just hasn’t gotten the ball and needs more targets.  But he’s also had some very untimely drops this season that he hasn’t acknowledged.  So while I think it’s fair to say he needs more opportunities, it’s also fair that’s he’s been fairly inconsistent when called upon.  

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/01/13/sports/josh-allen-bills-cold-weather-has-been-great-neutralizer/

 

Sorry but the numbers don't back up your argument. And this article just discusses the cold. Factor in rain (wet ball), wind like NE game and snow and the numbers for Josh fall even more. We can no longer live in the Jim Kelly snow game years. The organization dropped the ball on not insisting more on a dome. And they'll definitely regret it.

I used to be an anti-dome guy.  But its become clear its a better product in person and on TV when the weather is not a factor in the game.  Now that the Bills are a top tier team, the randomness introduced by the weather works against them. It really does. 

[What a Tuel]

6 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

on rewatching the game, I was surprised he didn't get more out of the reverse.  Watching tyreek hill return that fumble, i wonder what he would have gotten out of that play.  maybe mckenzie is not as fast as he thinks.

 

Yeah, I said the same thing. I am like he is supposed to be our fast gadget guy but somehow always gets chased down from behind or doesn't beat the defense to turn the corner.