Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

We need help on OL and WR.

 

Which makes me believe that we have to re-sign/extend Poyer, Edmunds, and Oliver. We just can't afford to create any more holes on defense that necessitate a top 100 pick on defense. Being able to somehow retain Philips and Lawson would be a huge bonus.

 

Buffalo needs to grab a WR and 2 OL in the fist 3 rounds this offseason. 

 

This is what people don't seem to get...you're not going to be able to keep a defense together for very long.  It's a costly and ineffective strategy just like the Seahawks demonstrated about 6 years ago.  Invariably there are injuries and guys want raises.    

 

Look at their 2023 cap room and then explain to me how you're going to extend those 3 guys?  What cuts are you making to get there?  Is this franchise gonna keep doubling down on defense to keep that unit together, or is it more cost-effective to have a decent defense with an elite offense?  

 

The long-term negative effect of continuing to invest in defense is a shortening of Josh Allen's career.  That guy needs to be clean and not depended on to run the ball so often while having the time to make throws downfield.  

 

19 minutes ago, BananaB said:

McKenzie and Davis are not living up to expectations. Bills put a lot of faith in those two and both have been a big part of the Os problems. 

 

Who had expectations of McKenzie?  And Davis was someone that a deeper analytical dive showed was not as good as OBD wanted him to be this season. 

[C.Biscuit97]

28 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That was one of the reasons they they were terrible.  Using all those picks on RBs-  

1997-2010 - including 4 first rd picks

97 smith- 1st

98 linton- 5th

99 Bryson- 3rd

00 morris 5th

01 Henry 2nd

02 ferguson 7th

03 mcgahee 1st

05 Gates 7th

07 lynch 1st

10 spiller 1st

 

 

 

 

 

Try but also Fred Jackson and Kiko for McCoy. There are other ways to address this. We have used 2 3rd rounders and 1 2nd rounder (and also made a trade). That is a lot of pretty valuable resources to use on a rb in todays nfl. Definitely is one of the few weak points of Beane’s tenure. We should have a guy right now, especially playing with Allen who makes it easier to run.

[GoBills808]

Who thought the Bills were really talented offensively?

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Who thought the Bills were really talented offensively?

Allen and Diggs hide a lot of deficiencies.

 

 

 

 

[RichRiderBills]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I'm not part of the crowd who hates on Beasley because of Covid or political differences. I do think the tweets became a distraction, but mainly, I think his legs gave out. Maybe he was playing hurt, but he wasn't the same last season. If you could get the old Beasley in this offense, it would be crazy not to want that.

 

He had 82 catches in 2021 tied for a career high. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by RichRiderBills

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

We run, but as soon as we have a couple no gains, we abandon it.  It's almost as if Dorsey is getting impatient with the play calling. We turn into a 1-dimensional offense and expect Josh to carry it and it's just not a viable option when you have receivers not getting open and dropping balls when they are.

I agree with this, the Bills are up multiple scores and he's just passing constantly. 

 

He did that in Vikings game. 

 

I'm sure today we'll get "gameflow" as the reason the Bills ran Cook and Singletary a combined 12 times yesterday. 

[TheBrownBear]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not only is there too little creativity/too much predictability in scheme (even Romo knew it would be a running play when Diggs left the field), the offense has zero physicality or heart to it other than Allen and Diggs.  They are SOFT mentally and physically.  

 

Talent-wise, McKenzie should not be a starter on a supposedly good offense.  Cook has never broken a tackle in his life.  Saffold is a disgrace - he is stealing money from his employer.  Even Dawkins seems out of shape, his "always something" approach to physical maintenance has started to catch up with him.  Spencer Brown has not improved as a player.  Davis has become an afterthought.  They have zero backup tight ends.  Just a staggering lack of talent across the board stemming directly from an under-investment.

Not sure how this post got so many likes, but it's massively hyperbolic.  How are guys like Knox, Morse or Motor "soft" dudes?   I've seen Cook break tackles just last week again New England, whom, by the way, is a very good run defense, yet we were able to impose our physicality and toughness to the tune of 132 running yards.

 

Do we have issues?  Yes.  The offensive line has had their share of struggles, but we've seemingly had an endless string of injuries - Brown, Morse, Dawkins, Quessenberry, Doyle etc. at various times.  We also need to keep in mind that the NYJ have one of the best overall defenses in the NFL.  We weren't going to slice through them like Swiss cheese.  My biggest complaint, besides the occasional bad line play, is the play of the receivers behind Diggs.  I will concede that has been a problem.  McKenzie and Gabe Davis just haven't been consistently good enough to punish the defenses for doubling Diggs.

[Buffalo Boy]

29 minutes ago, hemma said:

No it was later than that I think.  I don’t have access right now to check it.

I remember the Announcers called it out.

Diggs gets a pass. Even Motor didn’t piss me off. McKenzie and Knox on the other hand

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

 

He's not wrong and this is basically the same thing that Greg Cossell said last week when I posted a similar thread.

 

Beane whiffed big time on Saffold and Bates, and Brown is going through the dreaded Buffalo sophmore slump. Add the fact that both Dawkins and Morse are really only solid/above average guys on their good days and you have a big problem and oline in need of complete overhaul in the offseason, with next to no resources to do this outside of the draft.

 

Also to everyone that hated Beasely because of his political opinions time to admit you were wrong, and you can argue that he was as important to this team and offense as Diggs is especially with teams essentially taking him out of games now.

[HappyDays]

I was thinking today, I can't remember the last time we scored a deep passing TD. There was the one to Diggs against the Pats that got called back for holding. I can't remember one before that, not since the Chiefs game. And I know it can't be a talent issue because Diggs and Davis are both excellent deep ball receivers. So I think that missing element is just a function of how defenses are playing us now. But in the process of taking away deep completions, defenses are leaving a lot of easy yards for the taking underneath. It's on Dorsey to scheme us up to take advantage of that. So I agree that our talent on offense is underwhelming but we have enough talent to move the ball better than we have the past few weeks if Dorsey plays with the right philosophy. Does he get bored with short throws or something? We killed the Pats with it and then went away from it against the Jets.

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by HappyDays

[Nihilarian]

34 minutes ago, KOKBILLS said:

Honestly...I think a lot of folks...and that includes me while I'm yelling at my TV screen during games...are getting too far into the weeds on the Offensive issues. If I was to generalize, and I don't usually like to do that, I would say actual execution is the main issue on Offense. 

 

1st drive Josh misses Diggs wide open. From what I could see he's got the single Safety to beat for 6...That's how open he was. Then Josh underthrows Smoke when he's got at least a step or two on the Rookie. Smoke still almost caught that ball. Then later on the McKenzie drop on 3rd down...Those 3 plays executed properly probably lead to a blowout yesterday. Regardless of anything else. McKenzie also had an earlier drop on a 3rd and long along the sidelines (the one he bobbled and dropped...It was a tough catch, but definitely a catchable ball for an NFL WR) that would have extended a drive.

 

Dropped passes, missed blocks, errant passes, penalties...These are all solvable problems before we even get into talent and design. The Bills have clearly been the better team on the field EVERY Sunday...Even in the 3 losses. Execution, penalties, and mistakes have led these games to be closer than they should have been. That seems to be the most obvious point.

 

I do think Dorsey needs to continue to work on scheming easy gains...But all in all we need to get back to that Playoff-level of execution more than anything. JMO...

This! 

 

As I said earlier, My take is something is up with Josh Allen. Just not sure what, ribs, elbow, arm? Normally Josh doesn't miss a throws like those. It could be the weather, slippery ball?

 

That one errant first throw could have changed the entire complexation of the game.

 

Something is up with Gabe Davis also... they bring in John* Brown and throw only once to him and only one throw to Skakir too.

 

Strange stuff, a lot of third and long and only went 2 of 13 on third down conversions. 

 

Good thing the Buffalo defense stepped up like they did! 

 

Let's hope the Bills get their shi ,stuff together going forward! 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Nihilarian

[Billz4ever]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I agree with this, the Bills are up multiple scores and he's just passing constantly. 

 

He did that in Vikings game. 

 

I'm sure today we'll get "gameflow" as the reason the Bills ran Cook and Singletary a combined 12 times yesterday. 

When they're even showing on the TV how open the middle of the field due to the Jets Wide-Nine, it's unforgivable that they weren't running more running plays up the middle to exploit that.

 

Not to mention, calling passes late in the game and stopping the clock for the Jets, when they should've been burning clock.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

5 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

This is what people don't seem to get...you're not going to be able to keep a defense together for very long.  It's a costly and ineffective strategy just like the Seahawks demonstrated about 6 years ago.  Invariably there are injuries and guys want raises.    

 

Look at their 2023 cap room and then explain to me how you're going to extend those 3 guys?  What cuts are you making to get there?  Is this franchise gonna keep doubling down on defense to keep that unit together, or is it more cost-effective to have a decent defense with an elite offense?  

 

The long-term negative effect of continuing to invest in defense is a shortening of Josh Allen's career.  That guy needs to be clean and not depended on to run the ball so often while having the time to make throws downfield.  

 

 

Who had expectations of McKenzie?  And Davis was someone that a deeper analytical dive showed was not as good as OBD wanted him to be this season. 

I agree with all of this. 

 

The Bills are already $10M over the cap next season, although there is speculation it could increase $20M to the to the $225M range. 

 

As soon as the Seahawks stopped drafting so well, the elite defense dried up. Guys on that side of the ball get old quickly. 

2 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

When they're even showing on the TV how open the middle of the field due to the Jets Wide-Nine, it's unforgivable that they weren't running more running plays up the middle to exploit that.

 

Not to mention, calling passes late in the game and stopping the clock for the Jets, when they should've been burning clock.

I'll look at the game log, but I wonder how many times the Bills ran in the second half with running backs. 

[TheBrownBear]

4 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

I was thinking today, I can't remember the last time we scored a deep passing TD. There was the one to Diggs against the Pats that got called back for holding. I can't remember one before that, not since the Chiefs game. And I know it can't be a talent issue because Diggs and Davis are both excellent deep ball receivers. So I think that missing element is just a function of how defenses are playing us now. But in the process of taking away deep completions, defenses are leaving a lot of easy yards for the taking underneath. It's on Dorsey to scheme us up to take advantage of that. So I agree that our talent on offense is underwhelming but we have enough talent to move the ball better than we have the past few weeks if Dorsey plays with the right philosophy. Does he get bored with short throws or something? We killed the Pats with it and then went away from it against the Jets.

 

I agree, but I think a lot of it comes down to Josh's decision making and checks at the line (and once the play starts).  I saw a couple of times where Josh clearly had a wide open underneath/dump-off option on 1st or 2nd downs, but he instead held the ball and ended up throwing an incompletion to a deeper covered receiver.  I think Josh and Dorsey are both to blame - constantly looking for the killshot, when death by a thousand cuts would better serve the offense. 

[Billz4ever]

7 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

Not sure how this post got so many likes, but it's massively hyperbolic.  How are guys like Knox, Morse or Motor "soft" dudes?   I've seen Cook break tackles just last week again New England, whom, by the way, is a very good run defense, yet we were able to impose our physicality and toughness to the tune of 132 running yards.

 

Do we have issues?  Yes.  The offensive line has had their share of struggles, but we've seemingly had an endless string of injuries - Brown, Morse, Dawkins, Quessenberry, Doyle etc. at various times.  We also need to keep in mind that the NYJ have one of the best overall defenses in the NFL.  We weren't going to slice through them like Swiss cheese.  My biggest complaint, besides the occasional bad line play, is the play of the receivers behind Diggs.  I will concede that has been a problem.  McKenzie and Gabe Davis just haven't been consistently good enough to punish the defenses for doubling Diggs.

So, given our success against NE last week running the ball, how does this coaching staff justify just 13 rushing attempts from our backs, when the weather was bad and the Jets play the Wide-Nine, which is ripe for getting gashed up the middle?  It makes no sense.  

 

Establishing the running game should've been a no-brainer and priority #1.  

[TheBrownBear]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

So, given our success against NE last week running the ball, how does this coaching staff justify just 13 rushing attempts from our backs, when the weather was bad and the Jets play the Wide-Nine, which is ripe for getting gashed up the middle?  It makes no sense.  

 

Establishing the running game should've been a no-brainer and priority #1.  

Absolutely agree with you there.  Only thing I can think of is that the Jets were disguising their defense well and providing looks that told Dorsey/Josh to continue to throw the ball.  But in crap weather like that, I'm of the mind that you hand the ball off and try to establish your running game early on, even if that means a couple of three-and-outs (which we ended up having a ton of regardless).

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

7 Drops by my count( by memory) yesterday:

McKenzie 3

Knox 2

Brown 1

Singletary 1

 

I was at the game so didn’t get replay on most if any of them but it was an abysmal showing by the targets.

 

The last Knox drop was like icing on a very unappetizing cake

 

That was not a drop. Knox had the ball in his hands and the defender was able to knock the ball out of his hands. That was good defense.

 

A lot of people are making it sound like Knox has regressed back to his rookie year, which is false. Yes, all fans see are the big contract he signed and therefore he should be an All-World player.

 

I understand that argument, however Knox has been used a lot more as a blocking Tight End than as a receiver. 

 

We have issues on offense, Knox is not one of them.

[JAMIEBUF12]

I guess Cole Beasley aint that easy to replace😜I seem to remember last season a bunch of posters saying get rid of him and let Mckenzie take over his spot.Plus the Jet we signed to replace Cole was dropping passes like crazy till he got hurt too…

[RichRiderBills]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

That was not a drop. Knox had the ball in his hands and the defender was able to knock the ball out of his hands. That was good defense.

 

A lot of people are making it sound like Knox has regressed back to his rookie year, which is false. Yes, all fans see are the big contract he signed and therefore he should be an All-World player.

 

I understand that argument, however Knox has been used a lot more as a blocking Tight End than as a receiver. 

 

We have issues on offense, Knox is not one of them.

 

It was good defense but still a drop in my book. Hit him in hands.  Knox is inconsistent. It's not like he did not also have a few other drops this year, especially over the last few weeks,  and yes not as bad as rookie season, but not turning the corner fully either. He has tons of talent. He can get hot and produce, but his hands are mediocre. 

[NickelCity]

23 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

Also to everyone that hated Beasely because of his political opinions time to admit you were wrong, and you can argue that he was as important to this team and offense as Diggs is especially with teams essentially taking him out of games now.

 

These two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Beasely's antics were annoying and cringe, and he was vitally important to the team. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by NickelCity