Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[Einstein's Dog]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Whenever I think about this topic, I always come back to Dorsey. 

 

Easy completions come from route design, play calling, and execution.   A properly designed play called at the right time executed properly gets SOMEONE open for an easy toss and catch.   That's what seems to be missing in the Bills' passing game.  

 

Dorsey has the wrong play designs for the opponent, or he doesn't call them at the right time.  And if he has the right play at the right time, then he hasn't trained his quarterback and receivers to execute them.   

 

It's not about talent.  Davis is more than talented enough to be a competent #2, and McKenzie is talented enough to run routes like Beasley.  If they're running the routes wrong, well, what are coaches for?   

 

I think it's Dorsey.  

I think Dorsey gets a bad rap here, especially in comparison to DaBoll who for some reason is now revered around here.  Dorsey has the same numbers with a better record (10-3) yet has had less to work with - Dorsey doesn't have a Beas or Sanders.

 

What I think has hindered the progression of the offense this season is the lack of the swing and screen pass.  I believe this was the targeted year over year improvement.  They tried early to get the WA guy McKissic (?).  And after that went blew up, drafted Cook and then traded for Hines.   The plan seemed to be increased YAC through swing passes and screens - and it has not worked yet.

[CEN-CAL17]

3 hours ago, BananaB said:

We lost 80 plus catches from him, our 2 and 3 combined have not surpassed 80 after 13 games. Hard to believe Beas couldn’t help us, even if he’s slowing down. Still smarter and knows how to find the soft spot in the D. 

I somewhat agree with this…. Beasley is missed, well production from last year anyways.  I will be surprised if Davis tops 60 receptions in 17 games.

[Chaos]

The QBs are the only thing that matter. When Allens, Mahomes or Burrow go off, the teams win.  When they don't go off all three teams are .500 ball clubs. 

In 2022 Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes each have 6 games with Passer ratings above 100. Joe Burrows has 7 games above 100.  The combined record for these 19 games is 19 wins zero losses.  The combined record for the 20 combined games with passer ratings below 100:  10 wins 10 losses. 

 

It would seem the strategy is to figure out what it takes to help the QBs get above a 100 passer rating. To my eyes the Chiefs and Bengals think the key is making the online and skill positions as strong as they can.  And the Bills strategy is to pray that Josh Allen is superman each Sunday. And the Bills strategy may yet work. 

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

Why do we have so many Beasley is the answer posts.

 

It was clear that he had lost a crucial step last year, he was often injured, and he could not stick with Tampa after he left.

 

He is retired now, so... time to move on folks.

 

 

 

Beasley is a white slot receiver who couldn’t make it work with Tom Brady, he is clearly not likely to have much in the tank. If the Bills want to kick the tires and get him on the PS, fine I guess it doesn’t hurt but it’s at best a long shot.

 

If the Bills are hoping to get some WR help you are better off waiting for Crowder to attempt to come off IR

[716to540]

Ralph is cheap???

[RichRiderBills]

10 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

Beasley is a white slot receiver who couldn’t make it work with Tom Brady, he is clearly not likely to have much in the tank. If the Bills want to kick the tires and get him on the PS, fine I guess it doesn’t hurt but it’s at best a long shot.

 

If the Bills are hoping to get some WR help you are better off waiting for Crowder to attempt to come off IR

 

The big deal when Brady got to the bucs is the easy outlet passes to Edelmen types were not in the Arians offense. He runs a downfield game with a lot fewer dump offs and west coasty check downs. Since gronk left, the TE is an afterthought as well. 

 

I tip my hat that beezer might be done. But I disagree about his lack of value to Buff in '21. He had 82 catches and was key in several games. Sure, he got hurt...maybe he just needs to get healthy. Why is this ok logic for an OBJ but not a Beezer? There was a stretch when folks were saying Von was never going to be the same again either.

 

Also disagree that we should not at least kick the tires on the guy. 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2022 by RichRiderBills

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

The part I don't get is that basically all the way up to the bye week, they looked almost unstoppable offensively.  Did teams figure us out? Did we change something?  Is it just poor execution?  It's almost a night and day difference it seems at times.

It is that time of the year where the pretenders separate from the contenders.   The good teams will start bubbling up and when you play them it will be tough games.  There is no "gimme" game in the NFL especially at this time of the season.   We have played the Patriots, Jets and will play Miami, all vying for the top spot in AFC East and we are 2-0 against them.  There are no easy games in the NFL.   This team has been out of sync with all the injuries and despite that are a strong 10-3.  Enjoy the ride folks.  I am sure the Coaching staff and the players will figure out and take the steps to correct.  

 

Josh will not be throwing for 350 yards in the type of Buffalo weather we had on Sunday.  It appears that Mike White played better, but the Jets were in catch up mode all day and hence abandoned their run game (and when they ran, they fumbled the ball at a critical time). 

[Shaw66]

35 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I think Dorsey gets a bad rap here, especially in comparison to DaBoll who for some reason is now revered around here.  Dorsey has the same numbers with a better record (10-3) yet has had less to work with - Dorsey doesn't have a Beas or Sanders.

 

What I think has hindered the progression of the offense this season is the lack of the swing and screen pass.  I believe this was the targeted year over year improvement.  They tried early to get the WA guy McKissic (?).  And after that went blew up, drafted Cook and then traded for Hines.   The plan seemed to be increased YAC through swing passes and screens - and it has not worked yet.

I'm not a Daboll booster.  

 

You may or may not be right about the swing pass and screen pass.   All I know is there are some ways to attack defenses the Bills see that are better than the things they've been doing.   Maybe the defenses they face are good at moving away from their tendencies, or maybe Dorsey isn't very good at getting away from his tendencies.  I don't know what needs to be done, but the offense should be more effective with the talent they have.  

[Niagara Dude]

11 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

There is a huge reason why Sean and Josh are interested in OJB,  outside of Diggs no one consistent enough

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not a Daboll booster.  

 

You may or may not be right about the swing pass and screen pass.   All I know is there are some ways to attack defenses the Bills see that are better than the things they've been doing.   Maybe the defenses they face are good at moving away from their tendencies, or maybe Dorsey isn't very good at getting away from his tendencies.  I don't know what needs to be done, but the offense should be more effective with the talent they have.  

 

There was a play on our first TD drive I think. Something like 2nd and 5 where we just had Davis run underneath, catch an easy pass and run for the 1st down. It stuck out to me because it was such an easy completion for a free 1st down and I feel like we never see those in our offense. It feels like our offense requires the WR to just beat their man and if they don't the play fails.

[CincyBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, ganesh said:

It appears that Mike White played better, but the Jets were in catch up mode all day and hence abandoned their run game (and when they ran, they fumbled the ball at a critical time). 

Allen played much better then White yesterday.  Throwing for a few more yards against a Frazier D playing prevent protecting a two score lead is no big deal. Allen's 2 TD drives at the end of the half and in response to the Jets 3rd quarter TD drive were critical to winning the game.  When they were needed Allen made the big plays.

 

 

[Billz4ever]

19 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

There is a huge reason why Sean and Josh are interested in OJB,  outside of Diggs no one consistent enough

I can see why they would, but if he's not even going to be ready this season, it's not going to help us now.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

There was a play on our first TD drive I think. Something like 2nd and 5 where we just had Davis run underneath, catch an easy pass and run for the 1st down. It stuck out to me because it was such an easy completion for a free 1st down and I feel like we never see those in our offense. It feels like our offense requires the WR to just beat their man and if they don't the play fails.

Right.  Can't do that every play, but good teams make it easy for themselves sometimes. 

[Joe Ferguson]

 

[SoTier]

28 minutes ago, Joe Ferguson said:

 

 

In an NFL without a salary cap or if all they were interested in was filling Highmark Stadium and making the playoffs, this would be easy to do, but the Bills play in an NFL with a salary cap, and they aspire to not simply make the Super Bowl but win it   They need a defense good enough to stop offenses like the Chiefs, Bengals or Eagles, and the Bills have invested a lot assets to get what they hope is a good enough defense.  Despite the losses of Hyde and Miller for the season, other injured defensive players have returned or are getting healthy, and the Bills defense appears to be still improving.

 

I'm willing to sacrifice some offensive power for a defense that can take the Bills to a Lombardi.  I'm a believer in the old adage, "defense wins championships".

[Big Blitz]

14 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

I GUARANTEE if you look at the numbers this offense is more productive right now then it was up to this point last year.  It doesn’t mean all our problems are solved it just means there are over reactions to the wrong concerns some are having.   

 

 

Thanks Aaron.  

[Locomark]

This is 100% because Gabe Davis is overrated. He isn’t usually open. 

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

5 hours ago, Chaos said:

The QBs are the only thing that matter. When Allens, Mahomes or Burrow go off, the teams win.  When they don't go off all three teams are .500 ball clubs. 

In 2022 Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes each have 6 games with Passer ratings above 100. Joe Burrows has 7 games above 100.  The combined record for these 19 games is 19 wins zero losses.  The combined record for the 20 combined games with passer ratings below 100:  10 wins 10 losses. 

 

It would seem the strategy is to figure out what it takes to help the QBs get above a 100 passer rating. To my eyes the Chiefs and Bengals think the key is making the online and skill positions as strong as they can.  And the Bills strategy is to pray that Josh Allen is superman each Sunday. And the Bills strategy may yet work. 

We have more invested on defense than the chiefs…we will see if it pays off or not. A good defense can help a qb out as much as skill position players. 

[Locomark]

Is it talent or player/ play usage? No slants, no crossing routes, multiple years of not being able to complete basic screen, bubble screens seemed to have stopped, lack of wheel routes, no trick plays, etc. 

[purple haze]

16 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

Every legit contender:

 

 

Sanders/Hurts 

CMC

Zeke/Pollard 

Dalvin Cook 

 

Mixon/Perine

Ekeler 

Pacheko/McKinnon

 

 

 

Devin Singletary/James Cook

 

 

 

Yea.  It’s Running Back.  

Nah.  It’s offensive line.  Too inconsistent.  It’s also playcalling.  Motor runs well but 8 or 9 carries won’t get it.  Dorsey forgets about the running game too often.