Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[colin]

I think we had a stretch where red zone turnovers murked us, and i think mccoach and dorsey decided they were gonna stop those, and they did.  it has slowed down our O some, and we are running less wide open stuff we used to so we are getting some growing pains trying to execute them, but we are winning games and that's what matters.

 

in terms of talent, cook might have something but has to learn, brown might be having a post surgery sophomore slump, but out side of that Diggs, dawkins (who is hurt) allen, and morse are our good players, the rest are basically jags or worse.

 

We have to stop thinking Davis is a very good football player.  he's just the WR opposite Diggs in the Josh allen show.  put a real stud in there and you are laughing. 

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Not picking on me at all, but I disagree.  I believe Beasley at his current self would help the Buffalo Bills.  A 50% Cole Beasley is better for this team than what we have

No he’s not

[Einstein's Dog]

28 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

 

I hear you Einstein, but you're depending on old players in retirement to come out and be difference makers. 

 

Hines? I just don't see anything coming with him. McDermott has identified him for Special Teams duty, and I just don't see anything that indicates he is going to be a piece of this offense. He's on the field sometimes, but has Josh thrown him one pass out of the slot? 

 

Right now, the Bills can't consistently get Singletary and Cook to 20 touches per game.  That's why there was more interest in a WR at the deadline over a RB. 

 

Sunday was another game where we have these three backs, but they're just not involved much. They take a backseat to Josh Allen's running. So not sure why Beane has been so determined to get these scatback types on the roster. 

I don't necessarily view these veterans as difference makers, just possibly reliable options.  I think Cook and McKenzie need to be on a shorter leash now.  The games are getting more meaningful and easy drops or missed assignments need to be eliminated.

 

Cook, Davis, and McKenzie need to step up.  If not I am hoping Smoke, Hines, and Crowder can be brought along for the end of season/playoff stretch.

[CEN-CAL17]

Go back and watch the Rams game…..

 

A ton of quick hitting passes, all the talk of how quick Josh was getting the ball out under 2 seconds.

 

What happened to that?! I’ve been questioning why everything is a 5 step drop from shotgun and why every route is 10+ yards down field? 
 

Every play is 3-5 seconds long now, ultimately leading Josh to escape the pocket or run. Why? 

[Mat68]

Dan is a smart guy and watches alot of games, but his gimmick is creating click bait clips.  Buffalo is top 5 or 10 in almost every category.  Those coming for Dorsey forget the Jaguars, Colts, and Steelers game of a year ago.  
 

This was a Brady era Patriots style of win.  This was a game Buffalo and Allen showed maturity.  Early on plays where there but missed due to the elements.  Allen has an ability to overcome but it will bring risk.  When needed Allen made the plays needed to win.  That style wont win every game but it was enough to win fairly comfortably yesterday.     

[WideNine]

4 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

This! 

 

As I said earlier, My take is something is up with Josh Allen. Just not sure what, ribs, elbow, arm? Normally Josh doesn't miss a throws like those. It could be the weather, slippery ball?

 

That one errant first throw could have changed the entire complexation of the game.

 

Something is up with Gabe Davis also... they bring in John* Brown and throw only once to him and only one throw to Skakir too.

 

Strange stuff, a lot of third and long and only went 2 of 13 on third down conversions. 

 

Good thing the Buffalo defense stepped up like they did! 

 

Let's hope the Bills get their shi ,stuff together going forward! 

 

Josh was hurt earlier this year so that is one thing. Defenses started playing him differently in the red zone and that has had an impact too.

 

He has not had much in the way of a clean pocket this year and that will impact any QB, if not the throw directly, the timing.

 

His laser to Knox came when he could climb a clean pocket and deliver. If we can get our pass pro to hold up a bit better we will see some better results.

 

Players dropping balls... dunno. Better concentration from those guys stepping up when their number is called.

 

 

 

 

[Albwan]

Coach is purposely holding back playing vanilla to bust out in the playoffs

3d chess

[Mat68]

7 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't necessarily view these veterans as difference makers, just possibly reliable options.  I think Cook and McKenzie need to be on a shorter leash now.  The games are getting more meaningful and easy drops or missed assignments need to be eliminated.

 

Cook, Davis, and McKenzie need to step up.  If not I am hoping Smoke, Hines, and Crowder can be brought along for the end of season/playoff stretch.

I go the other way with Cook.  I want him to have over 10 touches game.  The 4 carries all outside and the Singletary runs all inside are incredibly predictable.  Lining Singeltary out wide to run a route and Cook lined up out wide to block was mind numbing as well.

[JohnNord]

6 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

Everything said here is 100% spot on.  I do think that Dorsey (as well as Allen) are struggling with mixing up check downs and shot plays

[Straight Hucklebuck]

10 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I don't necessarily view these veterans as difference makers, just possibly reliable options.  I think Cook and McKenzie need to be on a shorter leash now.  The games are getting more meaningful and easy drops or missed assignments need to be eliminated.

 

Cook, Davis, and McKenzie need to step up.  If not I am hoping Smoke, Hines, and Crowder can be brought along for the end of season/playoff stretch.

I wonder what the Crowder role would be, because he played 3.5 games and had 6 catches for 60-yards. 

 

That's a 291-yard pace. 

 

So he'd really have to come back in and start demanding targets. 

[CEN-CAL17]

We have played 13 games….

 

Davis has 38 receptions. I think most of us thought he’d be around 60 at this point, especially with a pass heavy offense. 
 

Dorsey needs to find ways to get him, Knox and McKenzie the ball, faster and more often. I would have Davis running more 3 yd hitches or 5 yd crossing route.   
 

Nope 15 yd comeback it is….

7 minutes ago, Albwan said:

Coach is purposely holding back playing vanilla to bust out in the playoffs

3d chess

This is exactly where one’s mind wants to go because of how hard it is to grasp why we look “barely good enough”… plain Jane.

 

I see the Cincy Flee Flicker and just ask, “why can’t we do that?”

[WideNine]

2 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I wonder what the Crowder role would be, because he played 3.5 games and had 6 catches for 60-yards. 

 

That's a 291-yard pace. 

 

So he'd really have to come back in and start demanding targets. 

 

Just a hunch, but I think earlier in the season they were still trying to see what they had in McKenzie and Shakir in the slot.

 

So there was quite a bit of rotation.

 

I think they know that a bit better now and a vet that can read coverages, find the soft spots, and have dependable hands is what they need.

 

Started trending that way with the snap counts till he got hurt.

 

There is no guarantee that Dorsey will target him, but with teams playing those two high safety shells that area in front of the sticks would be the place to attack.

 

 

[Process]

17 minutes ago, Albwan said:

Coach is purposely holding back playing vanilla to bust out in the playoffs

3d chess

This is not a thing. I'm assuming you are being sarcastic. We are in a very tight race for the 1 seed. The only thing we are likely holding back are Josh designed runs.

[BullBuchanan]

6 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

There are at least 20 RBs I'd pick over Singletary if cap/draft picks weren't a thing. It become abundantly clear that Davis is a system player, whose best role is that of a dynamic #4 - not a #2. Knox is a middling talent at best and not an every down threat that teams have to prepare to stop. McKenzie is flat out terrible. I really like Shakir, but the Bills sure don't seem to.

Cook has elite athleticism, but not sure how adept he is between the ears. His confusion and missed assignment yesterday on the Diggs' screen was awful.

[BananaB]

31 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No he’s not

We lost 80 plus catches from him, our 2 and 3 combined have not surpassed 80 after 13 games. Hard to believe Beas couldn’t help us, even if he’s slowing down. Still smarter and knows how to find the soft spot in the D. 

[Chicken Boo]

I know what will fix this.  How about we draft another DB or defensive lineman 🥴

 

 

[TH3]

7 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

when you are 3-10 like the Bills...have a lot of holes to fill....

Edited December 12, 2022 by TH3

[Straight Hucklebuck]

9 minutes ago, WideNine said:

 

Just a hunch, but I think earlier in the season they were still trying to see what they had in McKenzie and Shakir in the slot.

 

So there was quite a bit of rotation.

 

I think they know that a bit better now and a vet that can read coverages, find the soft spots, and have dependable hands is what they need.

 

Started trending that way with the snap counts till he got hurt.

 

There is no guarantee that Dorsey will target him, but with teams playing those two high safety shells that area in front of the sticks would be the place to attack.

 

 

Yes, your point is valid. 

 

We lost size with Kumerow and the possession aspect with Crowder almost immediately this season. 

[Einstein's Dog]

23 minutes ago, Mat68 said:

I go the other way with Cook.  I want him to have over 10 touches game.  The 4 carries all outside and the Singletary runs all inside are incredibly predictable.  Lining Singeltary out wide to run a route and Cook lined up out wide to block was mind numbing as well.

It's not that I don't want Cook to touch the ball, I just want competition.   I haven't given up on Cook but the developmental time is over, the leash needs to tighten.

 

  If Hines is outplaying Cook, so be it.  The cutting routes short, or missing blocks, or not handling pass protection needs to stop.  Cook had/has the inside track having been here all year.  But Hines has been showing himself well on special teams- making wise decisions and steady hands.

[Shaw66]

Whenever I think about this topic, I always come back to Dorsey. 

 

A good passing game is measured most easily by how many high quality, easy completions you get.   Yes, you gotta make the tough throws and catches, but it's the easy ones that you get over 250-300 yards a game.   

 

Easy completions come from route design, play calling, and execution.   A properly designed play called at the right time executed properly gets SOMEONE open for an easy toss and catch.   That's what seems to be missing in the Bills' passing game.  

 

Dorsey has the wrong play designs for the opponent, or he doesn't call them at the right time.  And if he has the right play at the right time, then he hasn't trained his quarterback and receivers to execute them.   

 

It's not about talent.  Davis is more than talented enough to be a competent #2, and McKenzie is talented enough to run routes like Beasley.  If they're running the routes wrong, well, what are coaches for?   

 

There are a few teams who have two true stud receivers, but not that many.  Smith-Schuster and Valdez-Scantling are ordinary NFL receivers - no one's idea of a good #1, but the Chiefs do a lot of damage in the air with a great QB and a great tight end and - play design and play calling.  

 

I think it's Dorsey.