Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

We've also seen players get the ball knocked out of their hands even when it looks like they have made a catch. Not abnormal.

 

As for the play itself, it was a good call, but it just didn't work out.

The Bills pass catches seem to lose a lot of contested passes. 

[folz]

52 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Cook gets 20 touches for 105 yards 11 days ago. 

 

This game, he touches the ball 5-times?

 

🤷‍♂️ 

 

As Romo pointed out during the game, on one play that Cook was in, Josh had to direct him where to go, and then he proceeded to whiff on his block, allowing Diggs to get blown up on a screen pass. Also, I don't think he is great in pass pro yet either.

 

A lot of guys can look good toting the ball, but if they can't block well in pass protection, on screen plays, etc. and don't always know their assignments, then their playing time will be limited. I'm not saying Cook is bad or won't get better at those things, but if the coaches have an option that they feel more confident in, they are going to go that way. And then if you only put the player in to run the ball (because you don't trust him on everything else), then you are tipping your hand to the defense. Hopefully Cook will improve his overall game and see more touches in the future.

[somnus00]

25 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Hard to get in rhythm when your wrs drop multiple 1st down catches thrown perfectly.  Our Wrs suck bad outside of Diggs.  

It's a good point you make. I'm not placing all of the offense's woes on Dorsey. Allen missed on some throws as well. But I do see some playcalls that I consider questionable (admittedly I'm not an NFL offensive coordinator).

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Well regardless of if you think there is no cause for concern or frustrated with the lack of options behind Allen's running and Stefon Diggs, there are only 4-games left to figure out some answers. 

 

Can Gabe do anything except 3 catches for 35 yards? 

 

I guess 13 games into the season Cook is whiffing on assignments so that means he must sit out all game.

 

There is no next level for Isaiah McKenzie. 

 

The only answers I can see are Knox and running the ball more.  

 

 

[Mark Vader]

28 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

This is the heart of the issue, and was even under Daboll. Our offense just seems to have no interest in targeting a big time TE early or often. Knox's contract is sort of similar to us continuing to draft, sign, and trade for receiving RB's that we never utilize. I have been going through the All-22 weekly and Knox is out there and open quite a bit, but we never seem to toss him the ball. So why pay a TE top 5 money if you aren't going to utilize him? 

His redzone targets are amongst the lowest for TE in the league. 

 

I think a huge problem with our offense sputtering is that we just don't spread the ball out enough. We are quick to defend our all-pro and stud QB, but it is a thin line between needing to put the team on your back and doing too much by yourself. There are a million things that go into executing a single play. I am certainly not forgiving drops or the OL. But Josh needs to see the whole field and take the easy money where he can.

I agree with this. We should spread the ball around.

 

One problem that I've noticed with Dorsey's play calling is how often our receivers constantly run deep routes leaving almost no short routes.

 

The main reason we beat New England is because we took what they gave us. A lot of dink-and-dunk passes and letting our receivers make plays after the catch. If that's what our opponents will give us, then take advantage of it.

[Einstein's Dog]

11 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well regardless of if you think there is no cause for concern or frustrated with the lack of options behind Allen's running and Stefon Diggs, there are only 4-games left to figure out some answers. 

 

Can Gabe do anything except 3 catches for 35 yards? 

 

I guess 13 games into the season Cook is whiffing on assignments so that means he must sit out all game.

 

There is no next level for Isaiah McKenzie. 

 

The only answers I can see are Knox and running the ball more.  

 

There are some other possibilities/answers though:

 

Top of the list are Smoke being re-integrated and more Hines.  Hines is looking better every day. 

Secondarily, is the tantalizing possibility of bringing in OBJ for the late playoff push (+2023 season)

The third low probability pieces are of a Beas and/or Gronk addition.

 

The long season may take this type of load management thought process.

[corta765]

The Pats game I thought was a bit of a break through as they routinely were eating yards on 1st and 2nd down which made 3rd really manageable and Buffalo was very successful. The Pats have a very good D so I was hopeful that it might translate to another strong game against the Jets. Unfortunately yesterday felt like a step back and more of what we saw vs CLE/DET where mistakes from OL, drops, and a few Josh decisions limited drives.  

 

Buffalo's offense when operating at full capacity and clicking is incredibly dangerous. But I think these things have limited them: 

 

-Dorsey 1st year. As much as we wanted to hope Dorsey would be perfect year 1 he has had growing pains and outside of matching weekly the performance of the Bills in the playoffs I think expectations were always going to be unrealistically high. With that said at times the offense has looked stale or predictable and he hasn't at times used his playmakers to the full extent. With that said...

-Injuries. The OL has been a turnstile which is never easy to build a group, the WR corp has went from a strength to question mark at times due to injury, and Josh himself getting hurt only further complicated things. Crowder was meant to be a dependable security blanket and we got 3 and 1/2 games out of him.

-Drops. If my fat a$$ on the couch is getting frustrated when Josh throws a simple toss two yards up for a RB to take for YAC and it is dropped, I can't imagine what he feels after a while. The last few years it felt like it was on Josh to get the ball to his dudes and they could make a play, this year has felt like Josh is hitting you in the hands and you didn't catch it?

-Gabe Davis. I hate singingly guys out as football has so many factors and influence of your teammates on what you do, but the team bet he could grow into a true #2 option. Instead he is at that awful middle ground of WR2/3 where he could finish the year with 1000 yards 7 TD's yet you feel let down. He has dropped enough balls where it feels like Josh doesn't trust him him the way you hoped. 

 

With this said while the Bills offense is probably not the world destroying juggernaut we maybe all hoped, they still are a very good unit that just has flaws and limitations like a lot of other good offenses past and present. 17 gives them a ceiling that allows for so much belief to be justified and that is enough for me despite frustrations at times. With that said even if they win the SB I would expect some revisions at WR and OL this offseason to switch things up vs keeping the band together as they had for the last 3 seasons.

[FilthyBeast]

2 hours ago, NickelCity said:

 

These two things aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Beasely's antics were annoying and cringe, and he was vitally important to the team. 

 

I can agree with that, but still think people made a bigger deal out of it than necessary.

 

It's a moot point though now because it appears Beasely is finished/didn't want to play football anymore but we really to address his departure better and appear to have whiffed big time on the slot WR by committee approach with the players we chose to replace him. This will be a much bigger issue in the playoffs than it is now unfortunately.

[Mango]

18 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I agree with this. We should spread the ball around.

 

One problem that I've noticed with Dorsey's play calling is how often our receivers constantly run deep routes leaving almost no short routes.

 

The main reason we beat New England is because we took what they gave us. A lot of dink-and-dunk passes and letting our receivers make plays after the catch. If that's what our opponents will give us, then take advantage of it.

I was at the game yesterday, I love going but don’t get to see much football. I’m catching up on watching it today. You’re right, with a stout DL, we ran a lot of long developing plays. 
 

But then in the first couple of drives there were some decisions that didn’t make sense that ended the drive in 3 and out. One was Josh quickly tossing it at his feet when he had Cook on a wheel route and open. The other was chucking it out of bounds to Shakir when he had a throw wide open underneath. I kept replaying them, total head scratchers. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

Always wondered why they was after looking at our skill positions.  Overall I think our skill position talent is actually below league average.  Josh helps a lot with that. We have almost no one outside of Diggs.  As many will disagree, when we lost Beasley I knew it would be a blow when Crowder was signed as his replacement.  Lost Sanders, did not replace him either which people overlook.  We simply pushed Mckenzie up on the roster because we had not replaced or upgraded the talent we lost,, it was a net negative. No online upgrades.  We regressed in offensive personnel on paper before the 1st game was played

Edited December 12, 2022 by Gunsgoodtime

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Josh Allen elbow is still limiting what the Buffalo Bills offense can do. Josh Allen is a gamer but I don’t think Josh Allen is going to be right back to normal until next season after a lot of rest and rehabilitation on that injured elbow in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Billz4ever]

50 minutes ago, Airseven said:

I have confidence in Diggs and Morse. That's it.

Good lord, we've seen this line without Morse and it's not pretty.  If Diggs were to miss time, we have nobody that scares defenses except JA17, and without anyone to catch the ball, good luck.

[dakrider]

If you put Allen and Diggs on the Chicago Bears, they would immediately be one of the top 3-4 teams in the NFC. 
And the Bills would be one of worst teams in AFC, still would have a good defense but no big playmakers on offense and still no running game.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, dakrider said:

If you put Allen and Diggs on the Chicago Bears, they would immediately be one of the top 3-4 teams in the NFC. 
And the Bills would be one of worst teams in AFC, still would have a good defense but no big playmakers on offense and still no running game.

If you put Allen on any random team they would instantly become Super Bowl contenders

 

that's how much he can do for an offense

 

 

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

Good lord, we've seen this line without Morse and it's not pretty.  If Diggs were to miss time, we have nobody that scares defenses except JA17, and without anyone to catch the ball, good luck.

On paper, outside of Allen, Diggs, Morris, we have one of the worst list of players on offense. Peolle say when you lose the qb, the season is likely over, which is true.  But no one says if you lose a Wr the season is over, because there are suitable replacements.  But not for the Bills, can you imagine Diggs going down?  Season over.  No one outside of him is above average at their position, most below average

[Straight Hucklebuck]

33 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

There are some other possibilities/answers though:

 

Top of the list are Smoke being re-integrated and more Hines.  Hines is looking better every day. 

Secondarily, is the tantalizing possibility of bringing in OBJ for the late playoff push (+2023 season)

The third low probability pieces are of a Beas and/or Gronk addition.

 

The long season may take this type of load management thought process.

 

I hear you Einstein, but you're depending on old players in retirement to come out and be difference makers. 

 

Hines? I just don't see anything coming with him. McDermott has identified him for Special Teams duty, and I just don't see anything that indicates he is going to be a piece of this offense. He's on the field sometimes, but has Josh thrown him one pass out of the slot? 

 

Right now, the Bills can't consistently get Singletary and Cook to 20 touches per game.  That's why there was more interest in a WR at the deadline over a RB. 

 

Sunday was another game where we have these three backs, but they're just not involved much. They take a backseat to Josh Allen's running. So not sure why Beane has been so determined to get these scatback types on the roster. 

[UKBillFan]

20 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

On paper, outside of Allen, Diggs, Morris, we have one of the worst list of players on offense. Peolle say when you lose the qb, the season is likely over, which is true.  But no one says if you lose a Wr the season is over, because there are suitable replacements.  But not for the Bills, can you imagine Diggs going down?  Season over.  No one outside of him is above average at their position, most below average

 

We churned out a win against the Jets yesterday and Diggs only touched the ball twice(?) - he was hardly effective.

 

I'm not saying him going down wouldn't be a season ender as it would be, same with Josh, but we're not using him well . Scheming to get him open more is key to this offense. The Chiefs seem to manage it with Kelce, the Vikings with Jefferson, the Dolphins with Hill (ok, they have another key target with Waddle), the Eagles with Brown. We don't seem to be able to make those kinds of calls as much.

 

I'm intrigued by the Kyle Brandt podcast tomorrow. I know he's close to Josh but it's now Greg Cosell, Orlovsky, I think Cover 1 and the reporter at the press conference yesterday all questioning the offense. He surely has to bring it up, in an albeit 'kinder' way than they did.

[BananaB]

Ups and downs of a season. Rather struggle now and get it fixed for January. Allen and Diggs can’t do it all themselves so we’re basically waiting for some guys to step up 

[Robert Paulson]

54 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Always wondered why they was after looking at our skill positions.  Overall I think our skill position talent is actually below league average.  Josh helps a lot with that. We have almost no one outside of Diggs.  As many will disagree, when we lost Beasley I knew it would be a blow when Crowder was signed as his replacement.  Lost Sanders, did not replace him either which people overlook.  We simply pushed Mckenzie up on the roster because we had not replaced or upgraded the talent we lost,, it was a net negative. No online upgrades.  We regressed in offensive personnel on paper before the 1st game was played

not to pick on you but Beasley was a shell of himself his last year.  Keeping Beasley wasn't the answer but lil dirty has disappointed as his replacement- and i like lil dirty

[Gunsgoodtime]

7 minutes ago, Robert Paulson said:

not to pick on you but Beasley was a shell of himself his last year.  Keeping Beasley wasn't the answer but lil dirty has disappointed as his replacement- and i like lil dirty

Not picking on me at all, but I disagree.  I believe Beasley at his current self would help the Buffalo Bills.  A 50% Cole Beasley is better for this team than what we have

Edited December 12, 2022 by Gunsgoodtime