Orlovsky: Bills aren't as talented offensively as we thought

[Billz4ever]

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

[Coach Tuesday]

Not only is there too little creativity/too much predictability in scheme (even Romo knew it would be a running play when Diggs left the field), the offense has zero physicality or heart to it other than Allen and Diggs.  They are SOFT mentally and physically.  

 

Talent-wise, McKenzie should not be a starter on a supposedly good offense.  Cook has never broken a tackle in his life.  Saffold is a disgrace - he is stealing money from his employer.  Even Dawkins seems out of shape, his "always something" approach to physical maintenance has started to catch up with him.  Spencer Brown has not improved as a player.  Davis has become an afterthought.  They have zero backup tight ends.  Just a staggering lack of talent across the board stemming directly from an under-investment.

[BuffaloRebound]

It’s clear when you watch other NFL teams. Seemingly every NFL team has multiple skill players that can make contested catches and break arm tackles.  

Our RB’s are replacement level and don’t break any arm tackles.  The book seems to be out on how to defend Gabe.  McKenzie is too unreliable to be anything other than a gadget player. 

And most disappointing of all because he’s paid to be an upper echelon guy is Knox.  Sorry but good hands should be a pre-requisite for a guy who’s paid to catch the football.  

[Big Turk]

7 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I don't like admitting it, but he makes fair points.  We are in 3rd and long far too often.  The O-line is not doing a great job and much of our offense is Josh creating on the fly, not executing the plays as designed because he either doesn't have time, or isn't finding an open receiver.

 

Outside of Josh and Diggs who has any confidence in anyone else in this offense?  

 

I'd say Motor, but he needs the blocking to be there and for the most part, it's not.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=35237773

 

I think more than anything, it's Allen being told to stop putting the ball in harms way so often and he hasn't found the happy medium between taking chances and being overly aggressive.  Now he is being overly conservative.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not only is there too little creativity/too much predictability in scheme (even Romo knew it would be a running play when Diggs left the field), the offense has zero physicality or heart to it other than Allen and Diggs.  They are SOFT mentally and physically.  

 

Talent-wise, McKenzie should not be a starter on a supposedly good offense.  Cook has never broken a tackle in his life.  Saffold is a disgrace - he is stealing money from his employer.  Even Dawkins seems out of shape, his "always something" approach to physical maintenance has started to catch up with him.  Spencer Brown has not improved as a player.  Davis has become an afterthought.  They have zero backup tight ends.  Just a staggering lack of talent across the board stemming directly from an under-investment.

The part I don't get is that basically all the way up to the bye week, they looked almost unstoppable offensively.  Did teams figure us out? Did we change something?  Is it just poor execution?  It's almost a night and day difference it seems at times.

[HeHateMe]

Drops have been a huge issue.  Allen has been just a bit off..  Offensive line has been downright bad as well.  Tough to look good with these factors.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by HeHateMe

[Billz4ever]

19 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think more than anything, it's Allen being told to stop putting the ball in harms way so often and he hasn't found the happy medium between taking chances and being overly aggressive.  Now he is being overly conservative.

I have to agree with Josh being very conservative.  I don't know if the red zone turnover thing has been haunting him or if it's being beaten into his head not to make those throws, but he did have the endzone toss last week to Davis that would normally not be considered a wise throw.

 

I do agree though, it seems Josh is either not wanting to pull the trigger or he's just not seeing the open receiver.

 

In a re-do today, I don't think Josh ever attempts that game winner to Knox against KC and I'm sure a bunch of others we saw earlier in the year.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Billz4ever

[Big Blitz]

It’s almost like Allen is the MVP (he is)

[dollars 2 donuts]

10 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not only is there too little creativity/too much predictability in scheme (even Romo knew it would be a running play when Diggs left the field), the offense has zero physicality or heart to it other than Allen and Diggs.  They are SOFT mentally and physically.  

 

Talent-wise, McKenzie should not be a starter on a supposedly good offense.  Cook has never broken a tackle in his life.  Saffold is a disgrace - he is stealing money from his employer.  Even Dawkins seems out of shape, his "always something" approach to physical maintenance has started to catch up with him.  Spencer Brown has not improved as a player.  Davis has become an afterthought.  They have zero backup tight ends.  Just a staggering lack of talent across the board stemming directly from an under-investment.

 

 

Coach, I am looking to poke holes in anything you said above.

 

...I will let you know when I find something.

 

Don't hold your breath on this and if you were planning to go to lunch at noon, but wanted to stick around for my response...you can probably just go ahead and grab yourself a sandwich.

 

I find all of it so very true and I hate diluting the truth with sugar.

 

 

 

 

[Process]

Who is "we". The media hypes the bills talent on offense because in their heads they need a reason for Josh's success.

 

A lot of Bills fans knew this going into last off-season.

 

I'm glad people are starting to point it out though. Maybe it will wake beane up.

[Nephilim17]

I agree that one reason why we have too many "third and hopes" (good phrase) is that we/Josh are not taking early easy throws. I see it with a limited view of the field (TV cams not showing whole field) so why doesn't Josh? He's either not reading the field well right now or going for the big play too much.

If Josh can take those 6 or 7-yard first down passes, if we can run more than 14 carries a game by the backs, we will be a LOT better. But again, it was against a great D and in less than ideal weather. Let's see if over the next 4 games we can make progress. 

[Royale with Cheese]

I am definitely on the train that we need more pass catchers.  I thought Davis and McKenzie would fill in fine.  Davis finally getting the #2 position and thought McKenzie would give us the YAC element from the slot.

 

Both have been disappointments.  #2 needs to be upgraded but we can't do that this year..  McKenzie needs to sit.  I can't wait for Crowder to come back or move Shakir to full time slot.  I have no faith in McKenzie and he scares me that he's going to have a ball bounce off his pads, go in the air and it becomes a pick 6.

 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

8 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think more than anything, it's Allen being told to stop putting the ball in harms way so often and he hasn't found the happy medium between taking chances and being overly aggressive.  Now he is being overly conservative.

 

This is what I believe is the main problem. Think back to last season. We were 7-5 and having similar issues. Losing to Tampa by multiple scores in the second half when suddenly everything turned around. 
 

What happened? My theory is McDermott took the restrictor plate off the offense and his negative influence was gone until it reared it’s ugly head with 13 seconds left in KC. 
 

Josh has even said as much this season when asked about why the 2min offense works so much better than the “normal” offense. 

[thenorthremembers]

11 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Not only is there too little creativity/too much predictability in scheme (even Romo knew it would be a running play when Diggs left the field), the offense has zero physicality or heart to it other than Allen and Diggs.  They are SOFT mentally and physically.  

 

Talent-wise, McKenzie should not be a starter on a supposedly good offense.  Cook has never broken a tackle in his life.  Saffold is a disgrace - he is stealing money from his employer.  Even Dawkins seems out of shape, his "always something" approach to physical maintenance has started to catch up with him.  Spencer Brown has not improved as a player.  Davis has become an afterthought.  They have zero backup tight ends.  Just a staggering lack of talent across the board stemming directly from an under-investment.

You hit on every point.  I even agree with them being soft.  Who is the mauler on the oline?   Saffold and Brown have to be replaced next year.  I understand that Brown is a physically imposing 3rd round draft pick but the guys bend and lateral movement are just awful to watch.   I keep hearing how he is athletic, but he gets beat by speed rushes consistently.    Saffold had a great career, but its clear its over.   Dawkins gets more of a pass from me because I think he is playing hurt, but your point on physical maintenance make sense, he is a bad body guy for sure.

 

They are going to have to retool big time in the offseason.  They desperately need a #2 wideout and have very little money to bring someone in.  

 

They are very lucky to have the QB they have. 

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

 

This is what I believe is the main problem. Think back to last season. We were 7-5 and having similar issues. Losing to Tampa by multiple scores in the second half when suddenly everything turned around. 
 

What happened? My theory is McDermott took the restrictor plate off the offense and his negative influence was gone until it reared it’s ugly head with 13 seconds left in KC. 
 

Josh has even said as much this season when asked about why the 2min offense works so much better than the “normal” offense. 

 

Yeah...he says defenses aren't able to get into complex coverages in the hurry-up and have to play simpler.  My question is why don't the Bills run that more often then? Why allow the defenses to play what they want?

Edited December 12, 2022 by Big Turk

[Greg S]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think more than anything, it's Allen being told to stop putting the ball in harms way so often and he hasn't found the happy medium between taking chances and being overly aggressive.  Now he is being overly conservative.

 

The Bills did with the turnover battle yesterday which played a big part in getting the win. Allen will probably have to win a shootout at some point (maybe the playoffs) but as long as the Bills win, I am not concerned if Allen doesn't post 300 yard plus passing games.

[Billz4ever]

2 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

I agree that one reason why we have too many "third and hopes" (good phrase) is that we/Josh are not taking early easy throws. I see it with a limited view of the field (TV cams not showing whole field) so why doesn't Josh? He's either not reading the field well right now or going for the big play too much.

If Josh can take those 6 or 7-yard first down passes, if we can run more than 14 carries a game by the backs, we will be a LOT better. But again, it was against a great D and in less than ideal weather. Let's see if over the next 4 games we can make progress. 

I'm sure the weather was a big factor yesterday.  That much was obvious, but as he pointed out, over the last month, the Bills are averaging 4 yards on 1st down.  

 

Most 2nd downs end either with an incompletion or a run for almost no gain, which sets up the predictable 3rd and long for Josh to have to make the "third and hope" happen.

[Big Blitz]

We get every team's A game.

 
The Jets are an elite Defense.  
 

The Packers have an elite Secondary.  
 

Detroit has 1 loss since Halloween (us down Dawkins and Morse). 
 

We curb stomped New England.  
 

The Vikings choke should have never happened and Allen coming in with the elbow sprain doesn’t have 2 turnovers (the fumble and the OT INT where the play call was terrible and essentially green lit him to go hero ball). 
 

We handled Cleveland no problem.  Motor and Cook 170 yards rushing.  31 points.  
 

We just played a top 3 D in awful conditions and did what we needed to do - took no chances because the D had the game in control.  Still scored 20 points on just 50 offensive plays - bc too many 3rd and longs and drops —

 

 

Which leads to THE reason anyone would doubt this offense.   The RBs are underwhelming and scare no one.  
 

Against all the defenses just mentioned above if you can stop our running game with just 5-6 in the box and have a great secondary you can absolutely slow us down some.  

 

Running with Singletary/Moss for 3 years - the decision was made to not use draft capital on an RB or cap space.  This offense is all Josh.  It’s not too much unlike KC.  But their oline is better running the ball.  

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

We get every team's A game.

 
The Jets are an elite Defense.  
 

The Packers have an elite Secondary.  
 

Detroit has 1 loss since Halloween (us down Dawkins and Morse). 
 

We curb stomped New England.  
 

The Vikings choke should have never happened and Allen coming in with the elbow sprain doesn’t have 2 turnovers (the fumble and the OT INT where the play call was terrible and essentially green lit him to go hero ball). 
 

We handled Cleveland no problem.  Motor and Cook 170 yards rushing.  31 points.  
 

We just played a top 3 D in awful conditions and did what we needed to do - took no chances because the D had the game in control.  Still scored 20 points on just 50 offensive plays - bc too many 3rd and longs and drops —

 

 

Which leads to THE reason anyone would doubt this offense.   The RBs are underwhelming and scare no one.  
 

Against all the defenses just mentioned above if you can stop our running game with just 5-6 in the box and have a great secondary you can absolutely slow us down some.  

 

Running with Singletary/Moss for 3 years - the decision was made to not use draft capital on an RB or cap space.  This offense is all Josh.  It’s not too much unlike KC.  But their oline is better running the ball.  

running backs lol

[pocoboy]

the dude knows what not being talented offensively is all about.