If the offense keeps struggling does Dorsey get fired ?

[Low Positive]

This board has a weird collective memory block wherein they only remember the two explosive offensive performances from the playoffs last year. We won ugly last year too. Does nobody remember that Atlanta game? Should Daboll have been fired after that? 

[SCBills]

51 minutes ago, HaldimandBills said:

First off the Jets always play us brutally tough. Two seasons ago when the Bills were running defenses off the field, the Jets held us to 6 field goals in the redzone.

 

The Jets are the best defense in the NFL. I don't care what the STATS say. Anyone who watches football can see the Jets are playing on another level defensively. 

 

The Vikings game Allen was playing with half an arm. That carried over to the Browns game which was moved last second during a snow storm with no practice. The Lions as we are seeing are a legit team, and that was on a short week where Allen was still hurt. 

 

Takes us to New England where the Bills soundly beat them and played Conservative football offensively. 

 

This week was played in a sloppy icy game against the top defense. 

 

Bills need a serious upgrade at slot receiver and possibly another outside WR to push Davis. 

 

Improvement at interior oline and more consistency at Right Tackle would help as well.

 

The play calling has been the least of our concerns. 

 

I think I'd agree with you on the Jets.  Also the fact that they match up perfectly with us in having a dominant DL and the best boundary corner pairing in the NFL.

 

There are absolutely factors/reasons as to why the Offense has not looked like we need it to look these past few weeks.  

 

Will Allen continue to heal up?  Yea.  Will we unleash him more in the Playoffs (running) which in turn opens up the field more?  Yea. 

 

People act like our Offense was dunking on people all last year... they really weren't until the Playoffs.  People were dreading the Pats WC game heading into it. 

 

That said, McKenzie & Davis are very worrisome because we don't have any other options.  Last year we had Beasley & Sanders in the mix... right now, the only answer, is that they need to be better.  

 

Davis, even though the production has been meh, has in recent weeks at least started showing more that just deep routes.  

 

McKenzie is an enigma, he cannot have games like yesterday in the playoffs.  Just so frustrating. 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

I mean the offense is definitely struggling but there are many factors for it. I think expectations are so insane for a 1st year OC. At the beginning of the year, he was going to be a head coach. Now he is getting fired. Crazy times.

[frostbitmic]

Dorsey didn't draw up all of the penalties his offensive line was getting marched backwards for either. I know Dawkins was flagged at least three times himself.

 

Drawing up some quicker strike plays would help this regressing line immensely.

 

 

[Beck Water]

7 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Dorsey didn't draw up all of the penalties his offensive line was getting marched backwards for either. I know Dawkins was flagged at least three times himself.

 

Drawing up some quicker strike plays would help this regressing line immensely.

 

Question: what does "regressing" mean to you?

 

People like to toss that word around a lot (along with "yips"), but it's not always clear what exactly they mean by it.

 

When you have a LT playing on one leg 2 1/2 weeks out from a "high ankle sprain", is that "regressing" or is that "playing injured"? 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[frostbitmic]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

Question: what does "regressing" mean to you?

Not playing as well as they had been.

[Codyny13]

The lack of a short passing game that we started the year off w/ has baffled me. Where did it go? Everything seems to be 25 yards downfield and if it’s not there the play breaks down. You have Hines and Cook who have speed and can catch the ball and yet we don’t use them. A win is a win but the game plan this week was awful. Players need to execute better no doubt, from Allen to the receivers catching the ball.

[Beck Water]

Just now, frostbitmic said:

Not playing as well as they had been.

 

I don't think that's the common use of the word.  It usually means returning to a previous, lesser state.  So are you thinking the Bills OL returned to how they were playing earlier in the season, or last season, and if so, when?

 

If they are playing poorly, for a variety of reasons including injury and a high level of skill from the opponent, that may not be "regressing".

 

The reason I don't see that as a nitpick, is that it's important to understand why something is happening if you want to change it.

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Stank_Nasty said:

apparently his philosophy vs the jets was to target their strongest defenders and wanted nothing to do with exploiting the weaknesses…. COOL. 

 

 

[ndirish1978]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 saw a play from yesterday that Josh took off running & running down field right smack in front of him was Davis wide open & he was far enough for the first down but Josh (seemed to) look right at him & kept running so i think he's not taking what the opposing D is giving him & is back to laying hero ball .

 

He doesn't have the confidence in Mckenzie, Shakir, & even Davis to a point plus you throw in the loses of Bease, Sanders, & now that Kumero & others have been out at some capacity due to injury through out the season it's hindered the chemistry of the offense .

 

Gabe has been dropping passes. In crunch time it's unfortunate Josh may have lost confidence in hanging the ball up for him to catch and prefers to trust his own legs instead.

[aceman_16]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Might be a terrible take to some, but this is starting to remind me of the raiders back in 17 when Carr got Musgrave booted out of a job because he wanted his friend Downing to be his OC and after that happened their offense started out strong but after the Washington game they completely collapsed. I’m starting to see a similar pattern here with Dorsey and Josh. It started out great and now it’s come to somewhat of a stop. Even though Allen and company are still making things work to a degree. I do wonder though if the offense continues to struggle, is there a possibility that Dorsey gets fired or demoted??

Not a terrible take to "some" but to many. Understand it is his first year.....let the man grow into the role a little. Outside of Allen and Digg we have no good/great players on O

[ddaryl]

I'm not thrilled with our OC either. 

But we also have crap after Diggs for reliable pass catchers which is mind boggling.

 

 

The offense needs investment for the future

 

[JohnNord]

33 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Might be a terrible take to some, but this is starting to remind me of the raiders back in 17 when Carr got Musgrave booted out of a job because he wanted his friend Downing to be his OC and after that happened their offense started out strong but after the Washington game they completely collapsed. I’m starting to see a similar pattern here with Dorsey and Josh. It started out great and now it’s come to somewhat of a stop. Even though Allen and company are still making things work to a degree. I do wonder though if the offense continues to struggle, is there a possibility that Dorsey gets fired or demoted??

I really don’t think so, only because even with the struggles the Bills have still been successful.  
 

But more importantly, he was the handpicked OC of the franchise QB.  I think things would really have to go downhill fast for him to get fired after 1 year.  Unless Josh is in agreement that he sucks, which it doesn’t sound like he is, I don’t think he gets fired.  

 

I think the other problem is that the Bills know a lot of their talent didn’t really improve from last season.  Davis, McKenzie, Spencer Brown, were all expected to take a step forward this season.  They are basically the same players they were last season.  When you couple this with the fact that FA’s like Saffold and Crowder played very meh and the lack of contribution from rookies, I think you have to consider what Dorsey was able to do with the tools he was given.  
 

Overall, I think he’s done well enough to get a second crack but you never know 

 

 

 

[ddaryl]

10 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

 

 

So much for analytics I guess. 

Edited December 12, 2022 by ddaryl

[Beck Water]

19 minutes ago, Codyny13 said:

The lack of a short passing game that we started the year off w/ has baffled me. Where did it go? Everything seems to be 25 yards downfield and if it’s not there the play breaks down. You have Hines and Cook who have speed and can catch the ball and yet we don’t use them. A win is a win but the game plan this week was awful. Players need to execute better no doubt, from Allen to the receivers catching the ball.

 

So, I haven't seen game film of yesterday and I have a hard time telling what's really going on from TV broadcast.  But what I saw for a few games has been,  Dorsey's answer to defenses relying on their DL to bring pressure with 4 (or 3) and blanketing the field with 7 (or  8 ) has been to send 3 WR on deep routes and have 2 outlets chip and release for a short passing game.  So we either have deep routes that develop late, and we're not getting the protection to wait for them to develop, or we have outlets who chip and release, which makes them not as quick targets as they could be, and sometimes not available with a clear passing lane.  Sometimes he sends a receiver or an RB out to the flat.

 

I think Dorsey's idea is that we hit those outlets quickly and accurately, they get 8-10 yds a pop, and it will either get us to the EZ or knock the defenses out of that type of coverage, freeing up the deeper routes.  (Daboll had a different approach involving getting Beasley open underneath and scheming guys open deep).  This actually worked very well against the Patriots.

 

The problems are, 1) Josh doesn't necessarily make those short "outlet" throws accurately, especially on the move or under pressure.  They were his least accurate throws in college and pre draft, and some of the last he improved.  2) Mentally, Josh strongly resists taking the checkdown, and even more resists taking the checkdown promptly, when it is most effective and will get the most yards. 3) when the TE and RB are expected to chip and release, they aren't always available as outlets - if they can't get off the block or are delayed getting off the block.  It also becomes predictable.  Dorsey needs to mix it up more IMO.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[US Egg]

Jets Williams going down was huge yesterday for the Bills.

 

…..just saying.

[Beck Water]

6 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Gabe has been dropping passes. In crunch time it's unfortunate Josh may have lost confidence in hanging the ball up for him to catch and prefers to trust his own legs instead.

 

There's also the question of, if Josh was being pursued does he have time to set and throw?  I think one of the problems with his UCL injury is that he needs to pay more mind to good mechanics to throw on target.

[Augie]

22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean the offense is definitely struggling but there are many factors for it. I think expectations are so insane for a 1st year OC. At the beginning of the year, he was going to be a head coach. Now he is getting fired. Crazy times.

 

I used to avoid this place for a while after a loss. Now we are so spoiled you have to be careful after a win. We are #4 in points scored. Sure, there are things we could be doing better. That’s always the case…..but the sky is not falling. 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, I am the egg man said:

Jets Williams going down was huge yesterday for the Bills.

 

…..just saying.

 

Concur.  Big difference in the Bills offensive success without vs with Quinnen Williams in the game.

 

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I used to avoid this place for a while after a loss. Now we are so spoiled you have to be careful after a win. We are #4 in points scored. Sure, there are things we could be doing better. That’s always the case…..but the sky is not falling. 

 

It's getting to that point for me.  I don't mind criticism but I like it to be mindful and sensible, which means grounded in observations and facts and not just dumb (he sucks, he drops everything, he drops more than he catches, he's regressing, the OC should be fired etc etc etc)

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[Buffalo Junction]

Just now, ddaryl said:

I'm not thrilled with our OC either. 

But we also have crap after Diggs for reliable pass catchers which is mind boggling.

 

 

The offense needs investment for the future

 

Agree, but I’d go with “understandable” instead of “mind boggling”. They haven’t spent the draft capital on offense to get difference makers or a dominant Oline. The guys they have spent high picks on are the guys keeping the offense going; Allen & Diggs. Cook and Knox have also made some big plays, but both are hampered by the poor line play.