I thought 10-3 would feel better...

[Billsfan1972]

12 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

I certainly understand where these feelings of unease and doubt come from despite currently sitting with the #1 seed in the AFC and tied for best record in conference. But like I've said before, watching this team ever since the KC game you just get the feeling that something is missing despite grinding out 4 straight wins after 2 tough losses.

 

Yes this team is playing a more gritty style of football this year and winning close games, but it doesn't hide the fact this offensive line is among the worst in the league and with teams keying in on Diggs it's become increasingly clear we have no other real options that are going to scare defenses especially come January and time is running out with each passing game heading into the playoffs.

 

At the end of the day this just feels like a one and done type of team, almost similar to the Titans last year in that everyone knew they weren't a true contender or team to be feared despite finishing with the #1 seed.

 

No this was the SB favourite at the start of the year & expect them there.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Do you think Philly and SF dominating yesterday strengthens your argument?

 

SF two weeks ago won 13-0 at home against a 4-8 Saints team.  If the Bills only scored 13 points, at home against the Saints....what would your reaction be?

 

The Eagles needed a last second TD to beat the Colts...a Colts team coached by Jeff Saturday who has never coached.  The Colts are obviously tanking and were close to beating the Eagles.  Eagles lost the Commanders and struggled against the Texans lol. 

If the Bills struggled against the Texans, lost to the Commanders and struggled against the Texans....what would your reaction be? 

 

Just stop it.  You're embarrassing yourself going through every game.  

 

Anyone who can't see the Bills are not playing to expected levels is wearing blinders.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

No this was the SB favourite at the start of the year & expect them there.

 

 

And they still are.  Was is past tense. 

 

https://www.thelines.com/odds/super-bowl/

 

https://sportsbook.fanduel.com/navigation/nfl?tab=super-bowl

 

https://www.bonus.com/odds/super-bowl/

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

And they still are.  Was is past tense. 

 

https://www.thelines.com/odds/super-bowl/

 

https://sportsbook.fanduel.com/navigation/nfl?tab=super-bowl

 

https://www.bonus.com/odds/super-bowl/

BTW was responding to FilthyBeast comparing to the Titans last year.  So don't go after me.

 

I still have them winning it all.  I am a fan.

[Royale with Cheese]

11 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

No this was the SB favourite at the start of the year & expect them there.

 

 

Just stop it.  You're embarrassing yourself going through every game.  

 

Anyone who can't see the Bills are not playing to expected levels is wearing blinders.

 

Why can't we use every game?  Shouldn't a team be based on a 17 game season and not a few cherry picked games?

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Why can't we use every game?  Shouldn't a team be based on a 17 game season and not a few cherry picked games?

How about the 2020 Steelers, that everyone knew was a fraud and lost round 1.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2020.htm

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How about the 2020 Steelers, that everyone knew was a fraud and lost round 1.

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/pit/2020.htm

 

This does not answer my question at all.  

 

I find it amazing I can't use a game that happened just two weeks ago but you go and pull up a team from 2 YEARS ago.

What did bringing up the 2020 Steelers have anything to do with this discussion?

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This does not answer my question at all.  

 

I find it amazing I can't use a game that happened just two weeks ago but you go and pull up a team from 2 YEARS ago.

What did bringing up the 2020 Steelers have anything to do with this discussion?

Talk about cherry picking.  I had issues about the NE game, but yes a solid win (and to me should have been by more).  

 

I was stating that the Bills have not played particularly well since the KC game.  I did not go as far as FilthyBeast (and still have them winning it all), but used Pittsburgh as an example of a team whose 11-0 start was smoke and mirrors and then we saw the real team come the end of the season.  If we look as you say at all 16 weeks they were a solid 12-4.

 

So you are cherry picking the NE game, but that is perfectly fine?

 

Edited December 12, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[teef]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This does not answer my question at all.  

 

I find it amazing I can't use a game that happened just two weeks ago but you go and pull up a team from 2 YEARS ago.

What did bringing up the 2020 Steelers have anything to do with this discussion?

yet he'll get very angry at you for not answering a question either.  

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, teef said:

yet he'll get very angry at you for not answering a question either.  

Well done.  Did he answer it?  No he cherry picked, but keep defending him.

[teef]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Again, nobody is saying the factual points you are making are wrong.... but you have just done the exact thing you always do in this very post. You admitted KC just let Denver score their highest points of the season and then immediately followed with "but only the 6ht most gained." 

 

When you provide a factual stat and someone caveats that stat you call it excuses. When someone else gives a stat you caveat it and say it is just context. Your approach to every element of the discussion is about trying to make the facts fit your narrative. The Bills got it done against a 7-6 Jets team yesterday. But you criticise the offense. They scored 20 points against a defense that averages giving up 18.7 ppg. The Kansas City Chiefs also got it done against a 3-10 Broncos team. People criticise their defense. They gave up 28 points to an offense average 14.9 ppg and you say "yea but Russ is actually good."

 

You only like the pure numbers when they support your narrative. When they don't you prefer to add context to the numbers. This is what I keep saying to you. You have to treat both things the same. 

@Billsfan1972...please, please, please read this multiple times.  take a break, and go back and read it a few times again.  this post can possible fix your problems on this board if you are able to have any self awareness.

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Well done.  Did he answer it?  No he cherry picked, but keep defending him.

you also don't answer questions that don't support your argument, and you also cherry picked.  royal is only responding to a comment you made.  you make a comment like that, just back it up.

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

@Billsfan1972...please, please, please read this multiple times.  take a break, and go back and read it a few times again.  this post can possible fix your problems on this board if you are able to have any self awareness.

you also don't answer questions that don't support your argument, and you also cherry picked.  royal is only responding to a comment you made.  you make a comment like that, just back it up.

I answered the question. The Bills beat NE.  It was a good, not great victory.  Actually started a thread on it talking the OL & Drops.

 

What more can I do?  Royale with Cheese mentioned 17 games and I pointed out Pittsburgh going in the toilet after an 11-0 start.  Again facts.

 

I have detailed the Denver game.

 

Answer these Questions:

 

Is Denver one of the top defenses in the League?  KC put up more yards vs. them then anyone this Year

Denver scored their most points all year, but had other games where they moved the ball more.  True or False?

KC closed out the game with 4 first downs & preventing Denver from an opportunity to win.  True or False?

Denver is 3-10, 3 in OT and 8 losses < 7 points. Again True or False?

 

I guess my factual statements don't fit your narrative? 

   

Edited December 12, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Talk about cherry picking.  I had issues about the NE game, but yes a solid win (and to me should have been by more).  

 

I was stating that the Bills have not played particularly well since the KC game.  I did not go as far as FilthyBeast (and still have them winning it all), but used Pittsburgh as an example of a team whose 11-0 start was smoke and mirrors and then we saw the real team come the end of the season.  If we look as you say at all 16 weeks they were a solid 12-4.

 

So you are cherry picking the NE game, but that is perfectly fine?

 

 

LOL nope.

 

I'm not cherry picking, I'm giving you examples of how you can't just use one game to determine everything like you do.  

"The Eagles dominated the Giants yesterday!".  When the Eagles don't dominate "you can't use every game".  That's what you literally said.

 

When the Steelers were 11-0, they were 3rd in Super Bowl odds.  We are still #1.  They lost 4 out of their last 5, we've won 4 in a row.

 

So basically you're trying to make an argument you can't judge a team by an entire season now.

 

[teef]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I answered the question. The Bills beat NE.  It was a good, not great victory.  Actually started a thread on it talking the OL & Drops.

 

What more can I do.  Royale with Cheese mentioned 17 games and IO pointed out Pittsburgh going in the toilet after an 11-0 start.  Again facts.

 

I have detailed the Denver game.

 

Answer these Questions:

 

Is Denver one of the top defenses in the League?  KC put up more yards vs. them then anyone this Year

Denver scored their most points all year, but had other games where they moved the ball more.  True or False?

KC closed out the game with 4 first downs & preventing Denver from an opportunity to win.  True or False?

Denver is 3-10, 3 in OT and 8 losses < 7 points. Again True or False?

 

I guess my factual statements don't fit your narrative? 

   

whelp...i tried.  have at it folks.

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

LOL nope.

 

I'm not cherry picking, I'm giving you examples of how you can't just use one game to determine everything like you do.  

"The Eagles dominated the Giants yesterday!".  When the Eagles don't dominate "you can't use every game".  That's what you literally said.

 

When the Steelers were 11-0, they were 3rd in Super Bowl odds.  We are still #1.  They lost 4 out of their last 5, we've won 4 in a row.

 

So basically you're trying to make an argument you can't judge a team by an entire season now.

 

Yes I imagine they were behind KC & GB?  And rightly so.

 

I still think the Bills are the best team in the NFL.  

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

whelp...i tried.  have at it folks.

 

Yep.  The 3-10 Broncos are actually good and KC should have struggled with them.  

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Talk about hiding the facts.  We can argue about the conditions, but I expect the Bills to be able to put up points.  When they need one-two first downs to ice a game, I expect them to get it.

 

I will use the KC game as an example of how the season has changed.  They were at the 2 yard line and hadn't played great to that point, but I had no doubt they'd go 98 and score a TD (they did).  That was how good I felt about their offence in October. 

 

I expect way more then 20 points a game (especially at home).  I do not expect 5 straight punts to start the game.  Sorry my expectations are higher.

 

I really am not invested in Denver, but know their Defense has been very good all year and KC put up more yards and points then anyone else this year.

 

Denver did score 28 points, but on only 320 yards total offense.  Again facts.  

 

 

 

It is nothing to do with your expectations. It is to do with your wild inconsistency in judging underperming vs getting the job done.

 

The Bills offense scored more than the Jets give up on average and you criticise.

 

The Chiefs defense gives up double what the Broncos score on average and you say got the job done. 

 

I don't know if you are stuggling to understand my point.... it isn't about the arguments you make. It is about the fact that you don't treat all arguments even handidly. That is why you get push back NOT because of the "facts" you present. 

 

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It is nothing to do with your expectations. It is to do with your wild inconsistency in judging underperming vs getting the job done.

 

The Bills offense scored more than the Jets give up on average and you criticise.

 

The Chiefs defense gives up double what the Broncos score on average and you say got the job done. 

 

I don't know if you are stuggling to understand my point.... it isn't about the arguments you make. It is about the fact that you don't treat all arguments even handidly. That is why you get push back NOT because of the "facts" you present. 

 

And you look in a bubble based on Average Points.  The Bills are not an average opponent.  They should be scoring well above the average the Jets allow (okay am not bringing up weather, which played a part), but the Bills offense was bad yesterday outside the 2 TD drives (aided mightily by that great offside call and a 20 yard PI).  The other two drives were 25 & 21 yards (yep McKenzie too dropped another 3rd down).   

 

Talk about inconsistent.    

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I answered the question. The Bills beat NE.  It was a good, not great victory.  Actually started a thread on it talking the OL & Drops.

 

What more can I do?  Royale with Cheese mentioned 17 games and I pointed out Pittsburgh going in the toilet after an 11-0 start.  Again facts.

 

I have detailed the Denver game.

 

Answer these Questions:

 

Is Denver one of the top defenses in the League?  KC put up more yards vs. them then anyone this Year

Denver scored their most points all year, but had other games where they moved the ball more.  True or False?

KC closed out the game with 4 first downs & preventing Denver from an opportunity to win.  True or False?

Denver is 3-10, 3 in OT and 8 losses < 7 points. Again True or False?

 

I guess my factual statements don't fit your narrative? 

   

 

The Broncos defense is good. Nobody is arguing about the Broncos defense. The Broncos offense is horrific and put up almost double their seasonal average against the Chiefs. 

[YattaOkasan]

16 hours ago, buffblue said:

Kind of agree here, but it's not just Josh being a little gun shy. Can you honestly remember a game where our offense schemed guys open with ease? Even when we were rolling, it was all on Allen. Dorsey has been highly underwhelming

not going through the rest of this thread cause it is depressing but yes i remember a game.  Last game against the jets.  We schemed John Brown open deep and he couldnt make a play on a slightly underthrown ball that had DPI.  Diggs was open across the middle for maybe a TD but Josh missed him on the first drive.  Later we got Diggs unguarded in the slot and ran a curl.  It got tackled pretty easily, but later in the game we see the whip route from the same formation.  Also the Play action pass to Davis that set up first and goal on the second TD was scheming a person open.  Thats a lot of schemed open peeps (I think there may have been more).  Execution has been a problem.  we had what 5 dropped passes.  Dorsey hasn't been perfect but hes been fine.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And you look in a bubble based on Average Points.  The Bills are not an average opponent.  They should be scoring well above the average the Jets allow (okay am not bringing up weather, which played a part), but the Bills offense was bad yesterday outside the 2 TD drives (aided mightily by that great offside call and a 20 yard PI).  The other two drives were 25 & 21 yards (yep McKenzie too dropped another 3rd down).   

 

Talk about inconsistent.    

 

I don't disagree the Bills offense was bad. I repeat for the millionth time this is not about your opinions. It is about your logical inconsistency when deciding what is worthy of criticism.

 

Average points is the exact opposite of looking in a bubble. That is how averages work.