Who had a worse game? Dane or Isaiah?

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

I’m guessing this was in response to fans getting on McKenzie about his drops.  

 

I hope he does not lean in on the wet ball as an excuse too much.   IMO this is a bad comparison considering most fans aren’t professional athletes.  Probably fair to say a starting NFL wide receiver should be better than a shlub off the street.    
 

 

The fans will probably catch more than him

[C.Biscuit97]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Grown adults talking crap about athletes is a multi billion dollar industry

True but it’s so pathetic. Booing another man (who you don’t know) is such a strange thing. But to each their own. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

1 hour ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This guy and his dinosaur-brain... how come the Jets' receivers had no issues catching the ball yesterday?

This is always the comparison to me. Early in game Romo said Josh was struggling due to the weather, even though white was hitting targets early and often.  They all are playing in the same weather 

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, Success said:

McKenzie is a player who will have really good games for us, and really bad games.

 

I wish fans would recognize that, and go a little easier on him. He's not supposed to be the starter.  People get too crazy online when a player has a few drops - he's still a Buffalo Bill and has come up big for us at times.

 

 

I don't follow.  He is the starter, how is he "not supposed to be the starter" when he signed a 2 year deal this offseason, had an open competition with Crowder and Shakir and then was named the starter.  

 

I have always really liked McKenzie, especially him as an individual.  But I have stated over and over again (and soooo many people argued with me about this) that he is simply NOT a starting level player in the NFL, he is a gadget player, or a role player at best.  He is not a cerebral player on the field, he doesn't have a polished route tree, he can not catch consistently in traffic, he doesn't have the strength to fight for tough yards, and he struggles to reign in tougher catches.  He runs fast.  That's where it starts and stops with him in terms of what he excels at, and that is ok, there is a role for that on this team.  

 

But...he is without question not a starting caliber player, but he is unfortunately our best starting option right now.  I keep hoping to see Shakir break out and find a bigger role and more success each week to emerge as more of the go to slot guy with McKenzie being more of a role player.  Unfortunately, that has not happened yet, but I hope for it every week because Josh needs a 3rd option he can trust.  

 

Reality is, Knox should be that 3rd option and is easily our best 3rd receiving option in the pass game...but he has been too valuable and important as a blocker this year its prevented him from being more consistently involved in the air attack.  Its very similar to what is going on in SF with Kittle where Kittle has too much value blocking that they don't take advantage of his elite receiving ability enough there.  

Edited December 12, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[C.Biscuit97]

11 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Lil Whiny

Shocked there isn’t a rapper with this name yet. 

[Alphadawg7]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 I generally agree but grown adults talking crap to athletes is also pretty pathetic. 
 

again, everyone is being really sensitive. Go catch passes and win prizes. He’s not hiding and ducking like some would do. This is so far from a big deal 

 

I'm not saying grown adults should be talking crap to him personally, I agree with you on that, it's just a game, get over yourselves as fans.  However, he is a professional athlete, it unfortunately comes with the territory and to come out and grand stand and say you come do my job if you think it's so easy is pretty weak and childish.  All he has done here is transition this from immature fans being dumb, to now a personal spat between him and the fans.  This approach didn't work out well with Beasley when he went on Twitter and chose to challenge those questioning him.  

 

Just think this was a big mistake and comes across as excuses, especially when no one else is making excuses nor does this excuse the other times he has made mistakes on the field this year that cost us drives, points, or a turnover.

[Beck Water]

 

20 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Offensive Line in general.

 

I hate to say it and there are reasons behind it, but yeah - especially in the first half, the OL had a huge impact on the game.

 

I'll cross reference this here.  There was a declined penalty on the 2ndary, but basically all of our 5 accepted penalties were on the OL, and a couple of additional penalties were declined because the result of the play was bad enough that the loss of down was more significant.
 

 

That's 5 penalties for 35 yds, and put us consistently in x "and long", mostly in the first half.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I'm not saying grown adults should be talking crap to him personally, I agree with you on that, it's just a game, get over yourselves as fans.  However, he is a professional athlete, it unfortunately comes with the territory and to come out and grand stand and say you come do my job if you think it's so easy is pretty weak and childish.  All he has done here is transition this from immature fans being dumb, to now a personal spat between him and the fans.  This approach didn't work out well with Beasley when he went on Twitter and chose to challenge those questioning him.  

 

Just think this was a big mistake and comes across as excuses, especially when no one else is making excuses nor does this excuse the other times he has made mistakes on the field this year that cost us drives, points, or a turnover.

I get your point but he is giving out prizes. maybe he is trying to stick to fans a bit but I think he is trying to have fun with it.

 

but I don’t know. I played decent level of college football and it’s for me to criticize most players because I know how good they have to get that far. IM had a bad game. But I’m sure it would be like a doctor getting criticized by a guy who failed out of high school. JMO 

[Billz4ever]

20 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

It’s a close call but I would say Dane had the worst game of any player today. Missed tackles, gave up I don’t know how many catches-give me Rhodes or Elam next Saturday!!

Gotta go with Dirty.  Two drive killing drops on 3rd and long?  Horrible.

[Boatdrinks]

15 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

True but it’s so pathetic. Booing another man (who you don’t know) is such a strange thing. But to each their own. 

Not huge on booing, but fans are paying to watch a competitive performance for 3 hours. McKenzie is an entertainer and like it or not he makes a lot of money doing it. If fans see a poor performance it’s their right to express their displeasure. Doesn’t matter if they know him personally or not. It comes with the territory and you can’t have thin skin. I personally would never comment on an athletes social media either, but that is the scourge on humanity that is social media in the first place . 

[NewEra]

13 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I don't follow.  He is the starter, how is he "not supposed to be the starter" when he signed a 2 year deal this offseason, had an open competition with Crowder and Shakir and then was named the starter.  

 

I have always really liked McKenzie, especially him as an individual.  But I have stated over and over again (and soooo many people argued with me about this) that he is simply NOT a starting level player in the NFL, he is a gadget player, or a role player at best.  He is not a cerebral player on the field, he doesn't have a polished route tree, he can not catch consistently in traffic, he doesn't have the strength to fight for tough yards, and he struggles to reign in tougher catches.  He runs fast.  That's where it starts and stops with him in terms of what he excels at, and that is ok, there is a role for that on this team.  

 

But...he is without question not a starting caliber player, but he is unfortunately our best starting option right now.  I keep hoping to see Shakir break out and find a bigger role and more success each week to emerge as more of the go to slot guy with McKenzie being more of a role player.  Unfortunately, that has not happened yet, but I hope for it every week because Josh needs a 3rd option he can trust.  

 

Reality is, Knox should be that 3rd option and is easily our best 3rd receiving option in the pass game...but he has been too valuable and important as a blocker this year its prevented him from being more consistently involved in the air attack.  Its very similar to what is going on in SF with Kittle where Kittle has too much value blocking that they don't take advantage of his elite receiving ability enough there.  

He’s saying that crowder was supposed to be the starter.  Looking at their careers, he should have been.  He’s been MUCH more productive as a slot WR.  His “2 year contract” is similar to vons 6 year contract- the teams can get out of it when it’s 1/2 complete.  In dirtys case, after this season. Crowders contract gives him a chance to be a FA after the season whether the teams wants to or not.  He didn’t want to be stuck in another year of making 2M.  He thought he would take Beasley’s role, accumulate lots of catches and hopefully double his salary.  Mckenzie was fine with it.  I’m quite sure Beane would’ve been happy to sign crowder to mckenzies contract…..crowder wasn’t.  

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I'm not saying grown adults should be talking crap to him personally, I agree with you on that, it's just a game, get over yourselves as fans.  However, he is a professional athlete, it unfortunately comes with the territory and to come out and grand stand and say you come do my job if you think it's so easy is pretty weak and childish.  All he has done here is transition this from immature fans being dumb, to now a personal spat between him and the fans.  This approach didn't work out well with Beasley when he went on Twitter and chose to challenge those questioning him.  

 

Just think this was a big mistake and comes across as excuses, especially when no one else is making excuses nor does this excuse the other times he has made mistakes on the field this year that cost us drives, points, or a turnover.

 

I agree with you, but I'll wait and see how it comes across.  In the past at Mister's Isaiah has kept it pretty real and sometimes hands-on, from salsa-dancing to demonstrating with his hands why catching a hard thrown ball is painful on the thumbs after a while.  He may not make it a personal spat.  If it is, I do agree with you it's not a good look.

 

If McKenzie comes across as making excuses for what McDermott regards as "a need to be better with fundamentals" on the offense (not calling out McK specifically), he's gonna find himself in the dog house.

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I get your point but he is giving out prizes. maybe he is trying to stick to fans a bit but I think he is trying to have fun with it.

 

but I don’t know. I played decent level of college football and it’s for me to criticize most players because I know how good they have to get that far. IM had a bad game. But I’m sure it would be like a doctor getting criticized by a guy who failed out of high school. JMO 

 

I am with you on all of that...just think that he should be more focused on stepping up next game instead trying to make a point to fans to validate multiple times in a game he didn't make a play that was there for him to make.  

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He’s saying that crowder was supposed to be the starter.  Looking at their careers, he should have been.  He’s been MUCH more productive as a slot WR.  His “2 year contract” is similar to vons 6 year contract- the teams can get out of it when it’s 1/2 complete.  In dirtys case, after this season. Crowders contract gives him a chance to be a FA after the season whether the teams wants to or not.  He didn’t want to be stuck in another year of making 2M.  He thought he would take Beasley’s role, accumulate lots of catches and hopefully double his salary.  Mckenzie was fine with it.  I’m quite sure Beane would’ve been happy to sign crowder to mckenzies contract…..crowder wasn’t.  

 

I'll put this a step further. 

 

You can usually tell something about how teams view guys by looking at their contracts.  Crowder signed a 1 yr contract for $2M: $1.12M salary, $795k signing plus workout bonus.  McKenzie signed a 2 yr contract with guarantees only this season, $1.35M salary, $700k signing plus workout - it's really a 1 yr contract with the team's option to hang onto him for a second season if they wish.  They really signed for about the same $$.

 

That says to me that the team did not view either Crowder or McKenzie as the starter going into camp; the team wanted them to compete and either platoon them, or "best man win".

Edited December 12, 2022 by Beck Water

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

I'm late to the thread, have only skimmed it.  Has anyone tried dragging Edmunds into it yet? 🤔

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I am with you on all of that...just think that he should be more focused on stepping up next game instead trying to make a point to fans to validate multiple times in a game he didn't make a play that was there for him to make.  

 

I agree that McKenzie should be focused on improving and stepping up, but if it's a contest and clearly for "fun", I don't think goofing around with fans for an hour or two on his evening off indicates lack of focus or interferes with that.

 

But again, it has to be managed carefully to avoid being a bad look, like excuse making.

[Beck Water]

55 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Someone should invite the Jets WRs to the taping tonight so they can show him how it is done.

 

I don't wanna rain on your parade, here, but Mike White completed 28 of 47 passes and the 19 that didn't wind up in the WR hands were not all throw-aways.

Do you really think the difference between 28/47 (59.6%) and 16/27 (59.2%) is where you want to run up your flag for "show(ing) him how it's done"?

 

 

[NoSaint]

47 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I would bet a lot of money that the majority of people killing IM are a lot worst at their jobs than he is at his. 

I definitely am worse. I don’t claim to be among the top 100 or so in my role in the world. 
 

he’s still not living up to his part though. 

[Nephilim17]

52 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I would bet a lot of money that the majority of people killing IM are a lot worst at their jobs than he is at his. 

You may be right. But I would also bet that most of those people also get reviewed and have to be accountable and live up to certain stadards.

I feel zero guilt critiquing a man who makes multiple millions of dollars to play a game that I play for fun and for free. If that's too much for him, he's free to choose another field to work in that has less scrutiny and criticism. 

[C.Biscuit97]

15 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I definitely am worse. I don’t claim to be among the top 100 or so in my role in the world. 
 

he’s still not living up to his part though. 

That’s far. I’m just struggling to see how come out and catch the ball and win prizes is some slap in the face to bills fans.  I think it is completely harmless and some of looking to be offend.

 

that said, maybe after last year, Bills receivers might want to give social media a break until after the season. 

12 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

You may be right. But I would also bet that most of those people also get reviewed and have to be accountable and live up to certain stadards.

I feel zero guilt critiquing a man who makes multiple millions of dollars to play a game that I play for fun and for free. If that's too much for him, he's free to choose another field to work in that has less scrutiny and criticism. 

And that’s fine too. It’s America. Dude dropped some passes and said people can win prizes if they catch a ball. Not sure what the issue is.