It's WAAAYYY Overdue - Holding Calls Should be 5 Yards

[BuffaloBaumer]

The fact that this penalty basically happens on EVERY SINGLE DOWN, isn't it ridiculous that it is still 10 yards? These penalties are drive killers and they ruin the offensive vibe immediately. I don't think I have ever heard this being brought up at owner's meetings and there is no reason that it should not be 5 yards. What am I missing here?

[Success]

People would hold a lot more.  10 yards is just.

[mikemac2001]

Typically you hold to save a sack which is usually 5+ yards and the down counts. 
 

So if you hold to save a sack In your rules it would be 1st and 15 instead of 2nd and 15+ so holding would benefit the offense that’s why it is 10 yards 

[Repulsif]

@HOUSE agrees with a 5y penalty

then @HOUSE agrees with 10y penalty

 

[HOUSE]

Just now, Repulsif said:

@HOUSE agrees with a 5y penalty

then @HOUSE agrees with 10y penalty

 

15 yards will be fine

[MJS]

Can we agree on a compromise?

 

Make it a 7.5 yard penalty.

[Logic]

I think 10 yard penalty is perfect.

As others have said, a sack usually results in the loss of 5-7 yards anyway. If it was only a five yard penalty, people would hold all of the time to save themselves the down.

The penalty has to be bad enough that teams don't do it on purpose.

If we want to talk about the enforcement or language of holding penalties, that's fine, but the penalty yardage for it is right on point, IMO.

Now....defensive pass interference? THAT should change. 45-yard penalties that decide game outcomes are ridiculous and should not happen.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Logic

[Low Positive]

13 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The fact that this penalty basically happens on EVERY SINGLE DOWN, isn't it ridiculous that it is still 10 yards? These penalties are drive killers and they ruin the offensive vibe immediately. I don't think I have ever heard this being brought up at owner's meetings and there is no reason that it should not be 5 yards. What am I missing here?

I have always wondered why defensive holding is 5 yards and offensive holding is 10 yards.

[Big Turk]

15 minutes ago, BuffaloBaumer said:

The fact that this penalty basically happens on EVERY SINGLE DOWN, isn't it ridiculous that it is still 10 yards? These penalties are drive killers and they ruin the offensive vibe immediately. I don't think I have ever heard this being brought up at owner's meetings and there is no reason that it should not be 5 yards. What am I missing here?

 

Just hold at your own 10 yard line or inside it and you get a discount.

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

I have always wondered why defensive holding is 5 yards and offensive holding is 10 yards.

 

Because you get an automatic first down as well? The equivalent for the offense would for it to be made 4th down immediately regardless of what down the hold occurred on.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Big Turk

[nucci]

How come when there are 2 penalties on offense or defense on one play only one is accepted? If you commit 2 fouls on one play both are accepted. If defense goes Offside and holds same play, both should be marked off. Also, half the distance...if you're at your own 15 yd and commit offensive holding...go back to the 5...keep moving back till you can't anymore

[Fleezoid]

Automatic first down on defensive holding is worse. Could be 3rd and 25 and a guy gets held 8 yards downfield and bam, new set of downs. Egregious when it happens near the red zone. 

[skibum]

1 minute ago, Logic said:

No defensive pass interference? THAT should change. 45-yard penalties that decide game outcomes are ridiculous and should not happen.

That's also a tough one, though. If they capped the penalty yards, then you would invite blatant PI on any pass longer than that cap. It almost has to be the way it is, though I agree that it seems unnecessarily harsh in many cases. 

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, Fleezoid said:

Automatic first down on defensive holding is worse. Could be 3rd and 25 and a guy gets held 8 yards downfield and bam, new set of downs. Egregious when it happens near the red zone. 

 

All part of rules designed to help the offense and score more points for the fans and to increase popularity.  The casual fans who are the biggest demographic want to see points scored when they go to games, not defensive struggles.

1 minute ago, skibum said:

That's also a tough one, though. If they capped the penalty yards, then you would invite blatant PI on any pass longer than that cap. It almost has to be the way it is, though I agree that it seems unnecessarily harsh in many cases. 

 

Perhaps separate the types of DPI?  Egregious/non-egregious? 

[Logic]

7 minutes ago, skibum said:

That's also a tough one, though. If they capped the penalty yards, then you would invite blatant PI on any pass longer than that cap. It almost has to be the way it is, though I agree that it seems unnecessarily harsh in many cases. 

I've always thought there should be two pass interference penalties, just like there are two facemasking penalties. "Incidental" interference would be 15 yards. "Intentional" pass interference -- really blatant instances, as you say -- would still be a spot foul. Yes, it would still be up to the judgement of officials, but it already is now, so what's the difference?

I think that penalizing "incidental" interference only 15 yards would at least prevent those ticky-tack fouls and instances of people tripping over each other's legs accidentally from swinging drive and game outcomes. It might even prevent huge yardage gains on some of those situations we see all too frequently where QBs purposely underthrow long passes specifically to draw fouls.

But if you yank a guy down intentionally or pin his arm or whatever, then yeah, still a spot foul.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Logic

[Brand J]

On the topic of penalties, a personal foul should override any other foul if both teams commit an infraction. “Personal foul on the defense, facemask, illegal shift on the offense, those penalties offset, replay the down.” If the NFL doesn’t want to give 15 yards and the first down in situations like this, then just give the offense the first down, but they should not offset.

[Taro Nimbus]

And Offside on defense is 5 yards.  Make it 10 as well. 😂

[GoBills808]

No. Learn how to block properly.

[WhoTom]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

I've always thought there should be two pass interference penalties, just like there are were two facemasking penalties. "Incidental" interference would be 15 yards. "Intentional" pass interference -- really blatant instances, as you say -- would still be a spot foul. Yes, it would still be up to the judgement of officials, but it already is now, so what's the difference?

 

They took away the "incidental" facemask penalty for the same reason they took away the "pushout" rule on passes: it was too much of a judgment call.

 

[Logic]

Just now, WhoTom said:

 

They took away the "incidental" facemask penalty for the same reason they took away the "pushout" rule on passes: it was too much of a judgment call.

 

That makes some sense to me. The only rebuttal I'd have would be to say that just about every call an NFL official makes is ALREADY a judgement call. It's already so subjective!

 

[nucci]

22 minutes ago, skibum said:

That's also a tough one, though. If they capped the penalty yards, then you would invite blatant PI on any pass longer than that cap. It almost has to be the way it is, though I agree that it seems unnecessarily harsh in many cases. 

I don't see it happening in college