Just Gonna Say It: Von Miller was very good, but not great this year.

[JoPoy88]

2 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Yes, the cap hit will suck, but it's not like the Bills lost Nick Bosa or Matthew Judon.

 

He was playing at a Jerry Hughes level.  A great player, but on the downward slope of his career. 

 

This is survivable and I don't think it hurts the Bills Superbowl chances much if at all.

 

Now excuse me while I pull my on flame resistant suit. 

 

Von had much more value that didn’t show up in basic stats that I don’t expect a smooth brain like you would ever notice. It’s a hard hit to the defense.

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Reggie White was dominating in his late 30's. This is a tough blow but like Tre, Von Miller will heal and be ready to contribute by late Oct or Nov. He's got 5 more years on his contract. He'll be back and have an impact. 

I don't think Reggie White is a reasonable comp for Von Miller or really anyone else tbh. Whether it's his position/alignment, or his physical stature and playing style, or even his personality...Reggie White was a remarkably different player than Von Miller. He was such a monster. Big, strong guys can remain effective longer than smaller, twitchier guys. Big players can maintain or even improve their plus mass and strength into their 30s, but EVERY player always gets slower. 

[JoPoy88]

10 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

I don't think Reggie White is a reasonable comp for Von Miller or really anyone else tbh. Whether it's his position/alignment, or his physical stature and playing style, or even his personality...Reggie White was a remarkably different player than Von Miller. He was such a monster. Big, strong guys can remain effective longer than smaller, twitchier guys. Big players can maintain or even improve their plus mass and strength into their 30s, but EVERY player always gets slower. 

comparing anyone, including Von to Reggie White is BS. Reggie was a complete freak of nature. Played at or near 300lbs. Still could murder tackles with speed. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

It’s his closing speed we’ll miss, and also his diagnosis on run plays. He blew many of them up from the side. 

 

It is valid to state that one of the obvious dangers to counting on players over 30 years old is the accumulated wear and tear. 

 

We’ve seen this to Poyer and Hyde this year, Mario Addison comes to mind, Lorenzo Alexander.

 

Von was worth the risk because he is a HOF player on the backend of his prime.

 

I think eventually you’ll see this with Stefon Diggs to where the Bills will need a draft solution a year early rather than a year late.

 

In the end Beane took a lot of flak for drafting Epenesa, Basham, and Rousseau, doubling down on DE, but those three young DEs and Shaq Lawson will need to carry us through now. 

 

[Nelius]

27 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

Reggie White was a remarkably different player than Von Miller. He was such a monster. Big, strong guys can remain effective longer than smaller, twitchier guys. Big players can maintain or even improve their plus mass and strength into their 30s, but EVERY player always gets slower. 

 

I remember Reggie White being like Michael Jordan in 1992, in Western NY. Kids had tshirts and everything. He should be in any football fans top-3 pass rushers of all time, arguably #1. It's an impossible comparison to begin with, but you're absolutely right that the big strong dudes last longer and even get better with age. Von is uniquely more long and twitchy than a lot of the 90s bulldozers. More Jon Bones Jones than Daniel Cormier.

Edited December 8, 2022 by Nelius

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, Nelius said:

 

I remember Reggie White being like Michael Jordan in 1992, in Western NY. Kids had tshirts and everything. He should be in any football fans top-3 pass rushers of all time, arguably #1. It's an impossible comparison to begin with, but you're absolutely right that the big strong dudes last longer and even get better with age. Von is uniquely more long and twitchy than a lot of the 90s bulldozers. More Jon Bones Jones than Daniel Cormier.

And Jon jones smoked the ***** of of Daniel … no offense to Cormier 

[Nitro]

3 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Yes, the cap hit will suck, but it's not like the Bills lost Nick Bosa or Matthew Judon.

 

He was playing at a Jerry Hughes level.  A great player, but on the downward slope of his career. 

 

This is survivable and I don't think it hurts the Bills Superbowl chances much if at all.

 

Now excuse me while I pull my on flame resistant suit. 

 

 

I would agree that he is on the back nine of his career but better than Hughes.  His impact on the field will be missed.

[DrPJax]

3 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Yes, the cap hit will suck, but it's not like the Bills lost Nick Bosa or Matthew Judon.

 

He was playing at a Jerry Hughes level.  A great player, but on the downward slope of his career. 

 

This is survivable and I don't think it hurts the Bills Superbowl chances much if at all.

 

Now excuse me while I pull my on flame resistant suit. 

 

     Pretty sure he was second in the league behind the cowboys parsons for pressures  ( I believe that as Espn glossed by so quickly discussing millers loss) That’s a huge loss as he made game changing plays in at least two of our wins. He did have the lasting effect on teaching technique to the young edge guys ( why aren’t they progressing before this with our staff) who are noticeably  improved , but none can replace his unique ability for big Plays at games critical times. No one has the closing ability Miller has and comparing him to Hughes is way off base.  His leadership and cool play at critical times will be missed and we didn’t even see him at a higher level of playoff caliber play yet.  This has been a terrible year with injuries and the Detroit field turf claims another.  The snow likely played some role with fatigue Showing up in the second game in 5 days 
 

      It’s a big blow also going forward as we are looking at possibly another White type situation with him likely missing most of next year, so it’s effectively a 2 year influencing injury. He also isn’t getting younger so who knows what he returns like?  Also has cap ramifications I would think and it’s  not like you can just grab another certain HoF, 2 SB winning edge guy!  This also affects free agency for this year ( pretty sure a certain player goes elsewhere):and I bet Mcd / Beane go edge hunting again, perhaps neglecting the o line or a true #2 receiver in next years offseason. 
 

     Not a huge surprise tho as we all saw the tibia slide  forward relative to the femur.  The heavily criticized internet Drs did indeed know their risk assessment given the mechanism of injury and how it looked. MRIs are vey often wrong early or miss  pathology because of swelling from the initial injury.
 

This is another hard test for Mcd , as this emotional blow comes right before two critical divisional games. White is playing better than Wilson did when we played and were beaten by their line and bad turnovers we mentally gave away, so not having those extra pressures from Von comes at an especially rough time!  The Jets know they have to have this game. If Mcd can squeeze out wins from the jets, fins, and Bengals , he is having a coach of the year campaign!  Here’s hoping they somehow hold the #1 seed as playing KC one more time there without Miller hardly seems fair.   Wishing  Miller a safe recovery and wondering if we finally might hit a critical breaking point with all these ridiculous amount of injuries ?   Hope his teaching is enough to get us thru to the next step!  

[Matt_In_NH]

5 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

He was playing at a Jerry Hughes level.

This is ridiculous.  

[bmur66]

This was kind of predictable. The dude was in for every play and wouldn't take himself out. Should have kept him bubble wrapped until the playoffs.

 

Sincerely,

Captain Hindsight

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

Oh my god after all of the Tre White bashing this year, can you imagine how much hate Von will get on here if he doesn’t play until next Christmas???

 

Although it is weird how much all of the haters have quieted down about Tre since he started playing…weird 

Yes because, well, you know HE'S PLAYING.

 

Finally. 

 

Von Miller is going to cost a huge amount of cap for literally no impact next year (and the rest of this year),  much like Tre did this year. But unlike Tre, he's ancient. 

 

That's cap dollars that could be invested in OL or WR that's just going to be laying on a training table. Harsh, but true. It was a great idea but a REALLY bad contract by Beane.

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

need lawsuits against those stadiums that have that type turf, pronto!

[BreezeMafia]

6 hours ago, ChicagoRic said:

Yes, the cap hit will suck, but it's not like the Bills lost Nick Bosa or Matthew Judon.

 

He was playing at a Jerry Hughes level.  A great player, but on the downward slope of his career. 

 

This is survivable and I don't think it hurts the Bills Superbowl chances much if at all.

 

Now excuse me while I pull my on flame resistant suit. 

 

I 100% Agree!  While he will be missed, I am beyond confident with the D Lineman we have.

[Pete]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

This is ridiculous.  

2022

 

sacks- Hughes 8, Von 8

tackles- Hughes 17, Von 18

FF Hughes 1, Von 1

int- Hughes 1, Von 0

[machine gun kelly]

6 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

The one thing that has to be said is Miller's presence made everyone else on the defense better. Especially, the interior guys like Oliver, Boogie, AJ, Shaq, and Rousseau. The opposition had to always account for Miller's presence; often with double teams. With him gone, it will be more difficult for others to be successful. Make no mistake about it the Miller loss is huge. With the game on the line no one is better than Von Miller! You can't replace a hall of framer like him. A proven winner who closes the deal. Folks, let's not minimize the significance of this loss. 

 

Definitely knocks the Bills down a few pegs...Doesnt mean the Bills can't win it all. However, I can't help but think of the Tre injury last year. It was huge and proved to be the case vs KC. How many of us think the Bills win that game if a healthy Tre was in the Bills line up? 

2012, I feel strongly Von made this line better.  He was impactful on the field, but so much attn was drawn to him which made the others jobs easier.  In addition, the other young DE’s have improved in their skills development because of Von.  I look ow on IR he can’t practice nor should he after ACL surgery, but there’s no reason he can’t put on the informal coaches hat and coach these linemen up in practice and on gameday.  He seems heavily invested in Buffalo, this team and his teammates.

 

He can still have an indirect impact on this line.  It was a fluke accident and stinks, but we still are 9-3 and have a good shot of winning the next several games.

[John from Riverside]

There is no way to put lipstick on this pig losing Von Miller hurts
 

my hope is that Greg Rousseau takes up the slack

[Matt_In_NH]

39 minutes ago, Pete said:

2022

 

sacks- Hughes 8, Von 8

tackles- Hughes 17, Von 18

FF Hughes 1, Von 1

int- Hughes 1, Von 0

 

What was Hughes production in this defense?   Did Hughes close games out, make big plays at critical times?  This is a clear case of picking and choosing stats to fit a narrative.  If you want to believe Hughes is equal to Miller, that is fine, we all have our opinions...

[Donuts and Doritos]

Von: 8 sacks 1 forced fumble

Team total 31 sacks

(Von's 26% of team sacks)

Rousseau 5 sacks

Epenesa 4.5 sacks

Basham 2 sacks

(everyone else 1 - 1.5 sacks) (see below)

 

Von double teamed quite a bit, freeing up other players.

 

Historically: Probably on pace for around 12 this season (4 more in 6 games he had left). That would have tied for 13th most all time. We haven't seen this type of production since Lamar Alexander 2016 or Mario Williams 2014.(see below)

 

Finally w/ 8 sacks he ranks tied for 38th all time in just 11 games. Check out the list below & notice how few games he's played compared to others on there. If he can continue his current pace the next 3years & stay healthy he can crack the top 15 or maybe top 10. (Also Bruce was a Beast). (See below).

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/name/buf/table//sort/sacks/dir/desc

 

https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/leaders/season-defense-sacks

 

https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/buffalo-bills/leaders/career-defense-sacks

[eball]

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

 

[nosejob]

Should we bring Jerry back and let him retire going out on a winner? If we lose a DT,(God forbid), I'd prefer to kick Shaq and or Basham inside.