Off topic 2023 draft

[Dr. Who]

Just now, LyndonvilleBill said:

I wonder if they move Benford to Safety and grab another cb instead?

Emoji if you intend early round pick at cb. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Emoji if you intend early round pick at cb. 

I'm not saying early round. Don't think we need to spend an early rnd pick on either. Just questioning an early round safety as to value against a CB.

 

PS. You can take your emoji back now.😝😄

Edited January 7, 2023 by LyndonvilleBill

[Dr. Who]

6 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I'm not saying early round. Don't think we need to spend an early rnd pick on either. Just questioning an early round safety as to value against a CB.

 

PS. You can take your emoji back now.😝😄

Well done, I did.

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

I wonder if they move Benford to Safety and grab another cb instead?

 

 

I think Benford is worth keeping and developing at CB.

 

Tre White.........I could see moving to S if he doesn't get some long speed and quickness back.

 

Ultimately,  if you aren't picking best player at premium position in early rounds you are setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills have been chasing needs too often ever since Beane went Cody Ford instead of clearly more promising WR prospects.

[LABILLBACKER]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think Benford is worth keeping and developing at CB.

 

Tre White.........I could see moving to S if he doesn't get some long speed and quickness back.

 

Ultimately,  if you aren't picking best player at premium position in early rounds you are setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills have been chasing needs too often ever since Beane went Cody Ford instead of clearly more promising WR prospects.

Hopefully RT is considered a premium position.  And finally making a commitment to protect your #1 asset becomes a premium decision. I don't know too many db's who can keep Josh from getting sacked or even hurt.

[LyndonvilleBill]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think Benford is worth keeping and developing at CB.

 

Tre White.........I could see moving to S if he doesn't get some long speed and quickness back.

 

Ultimately,  if you aren't picking best player at premium position in early rounds you are setting yourself up for failure.

 

The Bills have been chasing needs too often ever since Beane went Cody Ford instead of clearly more promising WR prospects.

Maybe. But I doubt they would do that to White for at least a year. Plus wouldn't he be an expensive safety?

 

One of my thoughts on Benford was, he's a little bigger than Tre and has been in the system for a year He could have all of this offseason to transition which may be better than bringing in a rookie.

 

As to the other part, it was more related to the value of a pick. Wouldn't a CB be more of a premium pick than a Saftey?

 

At this point in time, I don't disagree on the Ford pick and I think in hindsight the pick would be different. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

2 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hopefully RT is considered a premium position.  And finally making a commitment to protect your #1 asset becomes a premium decision. I don't know too many db's who can keep Josh from getting sacked or even hurt.

I doubt RT will be. Although we seem to be quite challenged finding the right person to fill that spot. Ford, Williams and Brown. I did expect more than what we've seen from Brown this year, BUT, back surgery,  new line coach and putting Bates next to him at RG, I can almost understand why my expectations were higher than the results so far.

Edited January 7, 2023 by LyndonvilleBill

[DCofNC]

Things that need to be addressed in the off season, regardless of via draft or FA, in order (in my eyes), WR, OL, LB (depth or starter of Edmunds goes), DBs.  
 

There’s no telling what may happen in between now and then, who re-signs, who may retire, who may get injured etc.   there’s no doubt this team needs more weapons for Josh.  
 

They desperately need to figure out how to protect him AND open some holes for the run game.  

 

Depending on Edmunds leaving or staying, I believe they are going to let him go simply based on numbers, you will need LBs either as depth or starters, and Safety is completely up in the air as well.   Po is a FA, Hyde is coming off an injury, Hamlin is a question and everyone else is a mess waiting to happen, it’s time to get younger there and the replacement for the vets is not on this roster (unless they move Benford, which seems like a possibility).  

 

So aside from potentially losing their minds and drafting another first round DL, I think this draft is going to need to be focused on WR because of cost in the market, LB because of cost and obvious need and potentially Saftey because of all the question marks there.  If the speculation of Morse, Tre, or others retiring actually happens, the focus may have to be altered. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hopefully RT is considered a premium position.  And finally making a commitment to protect your #1 asset becomes a premium decision. I don't know too many db's who can keep Josh from getting sacked or even hurt.

 

 

It's not.   You can generally help cover up a RT with a blocking TE.   As bad as Brown has been in pass pro at times I have much more confidence in him getting much better in year 3 than I ever did with Cody Ford.

[LyndonvilleBill]

22 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

Things that need to be addressed in the off season, regardless of via draft or FA, in order (in my eyes), WR, OL, LB (depth or starter of Edmunds goes), DBs.  
 

There’s no telling what may happen in between now and then, who re-signs, who may retire, who may get injured etc.   there’s no doubt this team needs more weapons for Josh.  
 

They desperately need to figure out how to protect him AND open some holes for the run game.  

 

Depending on Edmunds leaving or staying, I believe they are going to let him go simply based on numbers, you will need LBs either as depth or starters, and Safety is completely up in the air as well.   Po is a FA, Hyde is coming off an injury, Hamlin is a question and everyone else is a mess waiting to happen, it’s time to get younger there and the replacement for the vets is not on this roster (unless they move Benford, which seems like a possibility).  

 

So aside from potentially losing their minds and drafting another first round DL, I think this draft is going to need to be focused on WR because of cost in the market, LB because of cost and obvious need and potentially Saftey because of all the question marks there.  If the speculation of Morse, Tre, or others retiring actually happens, the focus may have to be altered. 

Ok, You ready to fire this up?

 

Lawson and Phillips are FA'S, Von is likely out until October, November? I don't think AJ and Basham are the answer opposite of Groot. 

 

So... In the 1st.

 

 

Just kidding.😁. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me though if they did take a DL and/or DE on day 2.😉

[BigAl2526]

I agree that O-line and WR are priorities.  In round one, though, Buffalo is in a challenging position.  Likely picking in the las five picks (hopefully the very las -31st pick) the top talent is going to be well picked over.  This is not a particularly strong draft for the offensive line, at least at the very top.   A lot of mock drafts have projected O'Cyrus Torrence to the Bills.  Some, however, don't think he is a first round value.  Moreover, he's pretty much limited to a power blocking scheme as he is kind of slow afoot.  The Bills like to use zone blocking at least some of the time and I think that is where Aaron Kromer's strength lies as an offensive line coach.  Al in all, that seems to make Torrence a less than perfect fit.  A few others have projected Andrew Vorhees too the Bills, but he is even less of a value in round 1.  The same quandry exists at WR.  There is only a handful of first round WRs in this draft - maybe three.  They may all be gone by the time Buffalo picks.  The one who might be around, Jaxon Smith-Njigba lacks any truly elite characteristics and has played mostly in the slot, at least through 2021.  He's got good hands, body control and short area quickness, and I'd be OK if he were the Bills' pick. 

 

The real value late in the first round might be at safety.  Poyer will be a free agent after the season and the Bills still have a tight cap situation.  Both Hyde and Poyer are on the wrong side of 30 and it does not look like the successor of either one is on the roster now.

 

I think there is probably better value both for WR and interior offensive line from the second round on in the draft. 

 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Ok, You ready to fire this up?

 

Lawson and Phillips are FA'S, Von is likely out until October, November? I don't think AJ and Basham are the answer opposite of Groot. 

 

So... In the 1st.

 

 

Just kidding.😁. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me though if they did take a DL and/or DE on day 2.😉

 

DL is definitely in the mix on draft day. Don't think it will be before the 3rd. Depends a bit on if they re-sign Shaq which I imagine they can without too much expense. He went through 3 teams and was basically out of the league in his 2 years after leaving last time. But his role as an early downs / goalline package edge setter in this D is worth bringing him back for. 

 

They will have a hole at DT. They can't keep having 4 "paid" vets there. At some point they are going to have to get comfortable with a late round developmental guy on the DL the way they have been with Benford and Jackson at corner or Davis and Shakir at receiver or Sweeney and UDFA Morris at tight end or Bates and Ike at IOL. The only "cheap" guy in terms of salary and/or draft investment they ever really trusted to play was Justin Zimmer. They have to look at that. 

[LyndonvilleBill]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

DL is definitely in the mix on draft day. Don't think it will be before the 3rd. Depends a bit on if they re-sign Shaq which I imagine they can without too much expense. He went through 3 teams and was basically out of the league in his 2 years after leaving last time. But his role as an early downs / goalline package edge setter in this D is worth bringing him back for. 

 

They will have a hole at DT. They can't keep having 4 "paid" vets there. At some point they are going to have to get comfortable with a late round developmental guy on the DL the way they have been with Benford and Jackson at corner or Davis and Shakir at receiver or Sweeney and UDFA Morris at tight end or Bates and Ike at IOL. The only "cheap" guy in terms of salary and/or draft investment they ever really trusted to play was Justin Zimmer. They have to look at that. 

Agree with being able to bring Lawson back, however,  having AJ and Basham there, I think we may need more of a pass rusher to try and pick up what we lose/lost from Von. I really like Lawson, but he would be the odd man out if we decided to get more juice, imo.

 

I'm sure you saw my mock in your other thread. So I'll ask you here. If Mazi Smith was available with our 3rd, would you take him? Or Andre Carter in the 2nd?

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, BigAl2526 said:

I agree that O-line and WR are priorities.  In round one, though, Buffalo is in a challenging position.  Likely picking in the las five picks (hopefully the very las -31st pick) the top talent is going to be well picked over.  This is not a particularly strong draft for the offensive line, at least at the very top.   A lot of mock drafts have projected O'Cyrus Torrence to the Bills.  Some, however, don't think he is a first round value.  Moreover, he's pretty much limited to a power blocking scheme as he is kind of slow afoot.  The Bills like to use zone blocking at least some of the time and I think that is where Aaron Kromer's strength lies as an offensive line coach.  Al in all, that seems to make Torrence a less than perfect fit.  A few others have projected Andrew Vorhees too the Bills, but he is even less of a value in round 1.  The same quandry exists at WR.  There is only a handful of first round WRs in this draft - maybe three.  They may all be gone by the time Buffalo picks.  The one who might be around, Jaxon Smith-Njigba lacks any truly elite characteristics and has played mostly in the slot, at least through 2021.  He's got good hands, body control and short area quickness, and I'd be OK if he were the Bills' pick. 

 

The real value late in the first round might be at safety.  Poyer will be a free agent after the season and the Bills still have a tight cap situation.  Both Hyde and Poyer are on the wrong side of 30 and it does not look like the successor of either one is on the roster now.

 

I think there is probably better value both for WR and interior offensive line from the second round on in the draft. 

 

 

Very good post. I agree with most of this - certainly on Torrence. IMO not a 1st round talent and not a Bills scheme fit.

 

The only thing I'd say is actually end of the 1st IS the type of spot I except the run on the 2nd tier of receivers to begin. Last year was a bit different because there was a pretty clear consensus tier of 5 top guys and some (wrongly in my view) had Dotson in there as a 6th top guy. And after those 6 all went top 20 or so there was a gap until Green Bay took Watson (who was the best of the 2nd tier) with the first pick of day 2. 

 

But go back two years to 2021 when there was a consensus top 3 - Chase, Smith Waddle (and to be clear this year's top 3 if, as I think we are, we are both talking about Johnston, Addison and Jaxon S-N is nowhere close to those 3) and what you saw was tier 2 went in that 20-34 range: Toney, Bateman and Elijah Moore. I think you could see something similar with the likes of Downs, Hyatt and Rice this year. None off those (either the 2nd tier of 2021 or the 2nd tier this year) are true 1st round talents but they are probably all around and about the top 30 to 35 players in the class... which is different. 

 

The big question - and you rightly allude to it, I have raised it elsewhere - is knowing who the Bills are, and the history of this regime, can you see them taking the 2nd tier receiver who doesn't have a true 1st round grade if a guy like Antonio Johnson out of A&M who is likely a true 1st round grade at safety and seems to fit their profile in almost every way is still on the board

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Agree with being able to bring Lawson back, however,  having AJ and Basham there, I think we may need more of a pass rusher to try and pick up what we lose/lost from Von. I really like Lawson, but he would be the odd man out if we decided to get more juice, imo.

 

I'm sure you saw my mock in your other thread. So I'll ask you here. If Mazi Smith was available with our 3rd, would you take him? Or Andre Carter in the 2nd?

 

I haven't done any work at all really on the DL class yet but I see the argument for a DL. I just think them investing another 2nd on an edge is an admission of failure on AJE and Boogie. I am not sure they are ready to do that. Think they will trust the 3 man rotation opposite Groot until Von is ready.

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Ok, You ready to fire this up?

 

Lawson and Phillips are FA'S, Von is likely out until October, November? I don't think AJ and Basham are the answer opposite of Groot. 

 

So... In the 1st.

 

 

Just kidding.😁. 

 

Wouldn't surprise me though if they did take a DL and/or DE on day 2.😉

That’s just mean and completely within the realm of possibility.

[LyndonvilleBill]

20 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

That’s just mean and completely within the realm of possibility.

LOL. If you haven't,  You should see my early mock in Gunnersbill's mock in the college section.😁

[Solomon Grundy]

Michael Thomas just reworked his contract 👀

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I haven't done any work at all really on the DL class yet but I see the argument for a DL. I just think them investing another 2nd on an edge is an admission of failure on AJE and Boogie. I am not sure they are ready to do that. Think they will trust the 3 man rotation opposite Groot until Von is ready.

 

 

AJ Epenesa is a free agent after 2023 season so I would not be the least bit surprised by them taking an edge in round 2.

 

If the season doesn't end in the Bills winning a SB I could see them trading their first round pick for what they perceive can be a veteran impact player............sometimes the value when picking late in round 1 is to trade for a Jason Peters/Orlando Brown type player that wants a change of scenery or new contract like Philly and KC had done with those players in the past.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

AJ Epenesa is a free agent after 2023 season so I would not be the least bit surprised by them taking an edge in round 2.

 

If the season doesn't end in the Bills winning a SB I could see them trading their first round pick for what they perceive can be a veteran impact player............sometimes the value when picking late in round 1 is to trade for a Jason Peters/Orlando Brown type player that wants a change of scenery or new contract like Philly and KC had done with those players in the past.

 

If they can find a Jason Peters available for trade I'd be very happy!!