I'm glad we have McDermott

[section122]

24 minutes ago, mrags said:

The situations are 100% similar. A year ago you learned that many things can happen with a sneak up the middle. Like your Center can Botch the snap, the QB can botch the snap. Your Center can be blown up by a DT. Your “pro bowl” LT can be destroyed on the play. And your QB can slip and go down immediately. 
 

and here we are a year later, with the game on the line, just like last year. And he didn’t learn from that blunder. 
 

you know what would have worked better? Josh in shotgun with some room to play around. Send out your stud WR in Diggs as well as your other not so sure handed Davis, Knox, and McKenzie. If any of the 4 of them get open, you throw the ball. If they don’t, you run around and buy time long enough to throw the ball out of play. Rinse, repeat 2 more times. Kill some clock. And worst case, on 4th down, do it again, but this time take a safety instead of throwing it away. Then punt to the Vikings with less than 20 seconds on the clock. And hope your star studded defense that you have built with pretty much all of your early round draft picks over the last 4+ years, as well as just about every free agent acquisitions can actually do their jobs and stop them. 
 

but he would probably do that, get that far, and then play prevent defense and let the Vikings score anyway. 
 

id much rather give Allen, your face of the franchise, your pro bowl, MVP candidate, 3+ shots to find an open WR than hope everything goes 100% right in the situation that he went with. 
 

again, you want to be ok with our coaches failures, that’s fine. I don’t have to agree. 

 

This is an utterly ridiculous post.  Tell me you wouldn't be the first person here if something went wrong doing as you described.  Why didn't they just qb sneak for a yard and then go victory formation would have been the refrain. Or why didn't they run the ball and run the clock?

 

Here's the thing, you get the benefit of hindsight.  If it worked, the Bills win and nobody questions the decision.  The QB and center messed up the snap.  The most basic play in football.  Somehow that is on McD?

 

Every team will win and lose games. As pointed out to you Reid took forever to win a super bowl and he is thought of as one of the best coaches in the league.

 

Here is my question to all the McD complainers.  Name me the coach you want to replace him.  Pick any coach.  I will absolutely guarantee you I can find something that you wouldn't like with real in game/season success examples.  Please someone take me up on this.

[teef]

10 minutes ago, mrags said:

I never said no more sneaks. I said with the game on the line. Backed up into your own 1. Or on a 4th down when you have a mobile QB that can clearly make plays on his feet. His better option every single time is to not call a designed run. You let Allen be Allen. Find the open guy, or run it himself if he finds a lane. 
 

you’re funny dude. Keep making excuses for bad coaching decisions. 

it was a good call where execution failed.  it happens, but that wasn't coaching like when josh fumbled in the vikings game.  it's not 100% on coaching.  players have to follow through.

[mrags]

5 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Well you said we shouldn't have QB sneaked against the Vikings because the year before against the Titans, we were unsuccessful.

So if we are in the same situation, ball at the 1 to sneak it in to win the game with it on the line...you throw out the sneak?  He can clearly make plays with his feet but he clearly also QB sneak it.  If you're looking purely at probability, the 4th and 1 QB sneak is his most successful play.  Nah...get rid of it!  99% isn't good enough.

Lets call a play in which he's roughly 60% successful at.  You're funny dude.

 

Alaina Getzenberg

@agetzenberg

Josh Allen had rushed for 1st downs on 13-14 tries on 4th-and-1 in his career before last night, per

@ESPNStatsInfo

I’m done arguing with you. It’s not a discussion anymore. I clearly will not change your mind and you clearly will not change mine. But the fact is, with the game on the line, he tried QB sneaks 2 times and lost them both. So Grats. You’re making excuses for your coach that has clearly failed. 

3 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

This is an utterly ridiculous post.  Tell me you wouldn't be the first person here if something went wrong doing as you described.  Why didn't they just qb sneak for a yard and then go victory formation would have been the refrain. Or why didn't they run the ball and run the clock?

 

Here's the thing, you get the benefit of hindsight.  If it worked, the Bills win and nobody questions the decision.  The QB and center messed up the snap.  The most basic play in football.  Somehow that is on McD?

 

Every team will win and lose games. As pointed out to you Reid took forever to win a super bowl and he is thought of as one of the best coaches in the league.

 

Here is my question to all the McD complainers.  Name me the coach you want to replace him.  Pick any coach.  I will absolutely guarantee you I can find something that you wouldn't like with real in game/season success examples.  Please someone take me up on this.

I never said replace him. I simply am not ok with him not learning from his own mistakes. You shouldn’t be either. But it appears you are. 

3 minutes ago, teef said:

it was a good call where execution failed.  it happens, but that wasn't coaching like when josh fumbled in the vikings game.  it's not 100% on coaching.  players have to follow through.

Coaches should know where there can be failures and what might work better. He’s failed. Period 

Edited December 7, 2022 by mrags

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

No it is about Alex Smith (who made the Pro Bowl the prior and that year) on a playoff team, vs. Peterman already a proven disaster on a rebuilding team that was at the bottom of the league in offense. 

 

The plan was for Mahomes, who was a project, not to play his first year just like Allen.  

 

Allen was a massive project, one of the most polarizing prospects ever.  He still has haters today.  Maybe, just maybe McDermott didn't want to put Allen out there because of the lack of talent we had on offense.  We were taking massive cap hits with getting rid of Watkins, Dareus and Darby. 

 

Our WR were Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Deonte Thompson and Jordan Matthews.  Our OL was Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine/Groy/Mills.  2018 was a throw away year to clear the cap for the next year and Allen wasn't supposed to start.  What happened next year?  Cole Beasley, John Brown, Frank Gore and Mitch Morse were signed.

 

I simply cannot believe you are giving credit to Reid for naming Mahomes starter in 2018 lol.  They traded up for him...of course he was going to name him starter lol.

 

 

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’m done arguing with you. It’s not a discussion anymore. I clearly will not change your mind and you clearly will not change mine. But the fact is, with the game on the line, he tried QB sneaks 2 times and lost them both. So Grats. You’re making excuses for your coach that has clearly failed. 

I never said replace him. I simply am not ok with him not learning from his own mistakes. You shouldn’t be either. But it appears you are. 

Coaches should know where there can be failures and what might work better. He’s failed. Period 

 

99% isn't good enough.  McDermott didn't tell Allen to not slip.  McDermott didn't tell Morse and Allen not to muff the snap.  All his fault.

[teef]

7 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

Coaches should know where there can be failures and what might work better. He’s failed. Period 

oh really?  a coach should know when a player will make a mistake?  there can be a failure any game, any play and any time.  this black and white concept that if anything bad happens, it the coaches fault is just lazy.  

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

oh really?  a coach should know when a player will make a mistake?  there can be a failure any game, any play and any time.  this black and white concept that if anything bad happens, it the coaches fault is just lazy.  

Except he had the same scenario a year ago and he decided to run Allen up the middle and failed. Game on the line. If you don’t get it, you lose. And he lost. 

12 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The plan was for Mahomes, who was a project, not to play his first year just like Allen.  

 

Allen was a massive project, one of the most polarizing prospects ever.  He still has haters today.  Maybe, just maybe McDermott didn't want to put Allen out there because of the lack of talent we had on offense.  We were taking massive cap hits with getting rid of Watkins, Dareus and Darby. 

 

Our WR were Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Deonte Thompson and Jordan Matthews.  Our OL was Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine/Groy/Mills.  2018 was a throw away year to clear the cap for the next year and Allen wasn't supposed to start.  What happened next year?  Cole Beasley, John Brown, Frank Gore and Mitch Morse were signed.

 

I simply cannot believe you are giving credit to Reid for naming Mahomes starter in 2018 lol.  They traded up for him...of course he was going to name him starter lol.

 

 

 

99% isn't good enough.  McDermott didn't tell Allen to not slip.  McDermott didn't tell Morse and Allen not to muff the snap.  All his fault.

His fault he should know it’s very possible that there’s blinders on the play 

[LyndonvilleBill]

7 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Idiots don't come until the weekend.😉

I apologize to ALL of you for putting a jinx on this thread. I was SO WRONG and I am SORRY!!!🤣🤣🤣

[LeGOATski]

18 minutes ago, mrags said:

Coaches should know where there can be failures and what might work better.

This is gold.

 

Coach should obviously know you can't do a QB sneak with Josh Allen. He's terrible at QB sneaks.

 

 

😏

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, mrags said:

His fault he should know it’s very possible that there’s blinders on the play 

 

It's a freaking QB/Center exchange.  The most basic play in football that starts every play.  4th and 1 QB sneak is our most successful play.  Geezus dude.

99% isn't good enough.  60% is better lol.  Nice thought process.

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

This is gold.

 

Coach should obviously know you can't do a QB sneak with Josh Allen. He's terrible at QB sneaks.

 

 

😏

 

It's so bizarre lol.

[teef]

5 minutes ago, mrags said:

Except he had the same scenario a year ago and he decided to run Allen up the middle and failed. Game on the line. If you don’t get it, you lose. And he lost. 

His fault he should know it’s very possible that there’s blinders on the play 

This is such an unreasonable post.  So because Allen slipped once on a qb sneak, he shouldn’t try a qb sneak when backed up against his end zone?   You really want to blame a botched handoff in the coach?   Ok…what play would you have run in the Vikings game?

[mrags]

11 minutes ago, teef said:

This is such an unreasonable post.  So because Allen slipped once on a qb sneak, he shouldn’t try a qb sneak when backed up against his end zone?   You really want to blame a botched handoff in the coach?   Ok…what play would you have run in the Vikings game?

I already told you what I would have done. And it would have given you 3 shots at a complete pass or a scramble by Josh on his own if he sees room. Instead we went with a play that could have been botched. Even if it’s not botched, you were on the half yard line, chances of getting out of the end zone are slim. 
 

I said it before and got sucked back in. I’m done. I’m not changing your mind and I really don’t care. Keep thinking McD makes sound decisions on game days. 

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It's a freaking QB/Center exchange.  The most basic play in football that starts every play.  4th and 1 QB sneak is our most successful play.  Geezus dude.

99% isn't good enough.  60% is better lol.  Nice thought process.

 

It's so bizarre lol.

I’m done. Just stop. 

[section122]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

 

I never said replace him. I simply am not ok with him not learning from his own mistakes. You shouldn’t be either. But it appears you are. 

 

So you are complaining just to complain then?  If you want no action then what is the point?

 

Do you really think McD doesn't learn from his mistakes? He talks all the time about self scouting.  Or do you feel that is just fluff?

[teef]

Just now, mrags said:

I already told you what I would have done. And it would have given you 3 shots at a complete pass or a scramble by Josh on his own if he sees room. Instead we went with a play that could have been botched. Even if it’s not botched, you were on the half yard line, chances of getting out of the end zone are slim. 
 

I said it before and got sucked back in. I’m done. I’m not changing your mind and I really don’t care. Keep thinking McD makes sound decisions on game days. 

and what if josh throws a pick in that territory.  what if he's sacked?  every play in football has potential to be botched.  of course you're done.  you're unreasonable.  you think every loss is on the coach, and that's not necessarily true at all.  players can lose games, and that's happened this year.   try to be willing to look at the big picture rather than just pointing the blame at one person.  coaches can always shoulder some aspect of the game, but what you're doing is just meaty.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

46 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

The plan was for Mahomes, who was a project, not to play his first year just like Allen.  

 

Allen was a massive project, one of the most polarizing prospects ever.  He still has haters today.  Maybe, just maybe McDermott didn't want to put Allen out there because of the lack of talent we had on offense.  We were taking massive cap hits with getting rid of Watkins, Dareus and Darby. 

 

Our WR were Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones, Deonte Thompson and Jordan Matthews.  Our OL was Dawkins/Ducasse/Bodine/Groy/Mills.  2018 was a throw away year to clear the cap for the next year and Allen wasn't supposed to start.  What happened next year?  Cole Beasley, John Brown, Frank Gore and Mitch Morse were signed.

 

I simply cannot believe you are giving credit to Reid for naming Mahomes starter in 2018 lol.  They traded up for him...of course he was going to name him starter lol.

 

 

 

99% isn't good enough.  McDermott didn't tell Allen to not slip.  McDermott didn't tell Morse and Allen not to muff the snap.  All his fault.

He chose Peterman.  You can not defend Peterman.  All credibility is lost when Peterman was named the starter. 

 

Alex Smith was a Pro-Bowl QB and a top 4 AFC team.  Naming a rookie the Starter on a team coming off a 12-4 record was not gooing to happen.

 

We've seen the same playing out in SF and the issues in GB.

 

Once the Bills got rid of Tyrod & drafted Allen they should have been building an offense for him.

 

I will say it again  Peterman   

 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[mrags]

8 minutes ago, teef said:

and what if josh throws a pick in that territory.  what if he's sacked?  every play in football has potential to be botched.  of course you're done.  you're unreasonable.  you think every loss is on the coach, and that's not necessarily true at all.  players can lose games, and that's happened this year.   try to be willing to look at the big picture rather than just pointing the blame at one person.  coaches can always shoulder some aspect of the game, but what you're doing is just meaty.

 

 

K. Got it. Have fun 

11 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

So you are complaining just to complain then?  If you want no action then what is the point?

 

Do you really think McD doesn't learn from his mistakes? He talks all the time about self scouting.  Or do you feel that is just fluff?

Yes I think it’s Fluff. I 100% believe that he preaches learning from mistakes but doesn’t practice it himself. 

[Billsfan1972]

The QB sneak is the right play.  Every good team and especially one with a QB like Allen you get to the line and snap immediately and go forward (take a look at Jalen Hurts and how simply they convert them).  They didn't vs. Tenn and looked a little unprepared.

 

Vs. Minny again if McD was so well prepared and has his team the same, it never happens.  Again they looked lost on that play.

 

I'm not blaming McD for Minny and that fumble, but for all those telling us how the Bills are so well coached and prepared, they blew it there.

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword (those defending McD at all costs).

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The QB sneak is the right play.  Every good team and especially one with a QB like Allen you get to the line and snap immediately and go forward (take a look at Jalen Hurts and how simply they convert them).  They didn't vs. Tenn and looked a little unprepared.

 

Vs. Minny again if McD was so well prepared and has his team the same, it never happens.  Again they looked lost on that play.

 

I'm not blaming McD for Minny and that fumble, but for all those telling us how the Bills are so well coached and prepared, they blew it there.

 

Live by the sword, die by the sword (those defending McD at all costs).

no one is defending mcd at all costs, but people are certainly blaming him at all costs.   how did the bills look lost on that play?  it's a bizarre narrative that you're conjuring up to place the blame.  it was a mishandled snap that was turned over.  it happens unfortunately, but place the blame on the people that mishandled that snap.  our expensive qb and center.  both are pros and should have made that work.

[Billsfan1972]

9 minutes ago, teef said:

no one is defending mcd at all costs, but people are certainly blaming him at all costs.   how did the bills look lost on that play?  it's a bizarre narrative that you're conjuring up to place the blame.  it was a mishandled snap that was turned over.  it happens unfortunately, but place the blame on the people that mishandled that snap.  our expensive qb and center.  both are pros and should have made that work.

Again I never have made a thing about the play.  If anything it was OT and the Allen pick that to me really made no sense and still never clearly explained what happened there.    

 

 

To me the play seemed off and I was just mentioning more so the Tennessee snafu.  Teef ignore this as I'm not debating the sneak.  

 

Edit I just watched the fumble and it appears Allen wasn't under center.  How does that happen?

Edited December 7, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

 

This is an utterly ridiculous post.  Tell me you wouldn't be the first person here if something went wrong doing as you described.  Why didn't they just qb sneak for a yard and then go victory formation would have been the refrain. Or why didn't they run the ball and run the clock?

 

Here's the thing, you get the benefit of hindsight.  If it worked, the Bills win and nobody questions the decision.  The QB and center messed up the snap.  The most basic play in football.  Somehow that is on McD?

 

Every team will win and lose games. As pointed out to you Reid took forever to win a super bowl and he is thought of as one of the best coaches in the league.

 

Here is my question to all the McD complainers.  Name me the coach you want to replace him.  Pick any coach.  I will absolutely guarantee you I can find something that you wouldn't like with real in game/season success examples.  Please someone take me up on this.

 

If Bill Belichik were to leave NE and want to coach elsewhere (somewhat realistic based on NE current state of affairs) I would dump McD without thinking twice about it and I think most Bills fans would be lying if the said otherwise.

 

Other current/recent head coaches I would most certainly take based on their resumes if available: Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Doug Peterson, Zac Taylor,  Mike Vrabel, Mike Tomlin, Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll.

 

Again it's not McD is a bad coach, but the facts (and history) say he's not good enough to take this team to the next level like a large majority of the guys I listed have done at least one time minus Taylor/Vrabel.

[teef]

1 minute ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

If Bill Belichik were to leave NE and want to coach elsewhere (somewhat realistic based on NE current state of affairs) I would dump McD without thinking twice about it and I think most Bills fans would be lying if the said otherwise.

 

Other current/recent head coaches I would most certainly take based on their resumes if available: Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan Andy Reid, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, Doug Peterson, Zac Taylor,  Mike Vrabel, Mike Tomlin, Jim Harbaugh, Pete Carroll.

 

Again it's not McD is a bad coach, but the facts (and history) say he's not good enough to take this team to the next level like a large majority of the guys I listed have done at least one time minus Taylor/Vrabel.

it would be so awesome when he makes patricia our OC.  that team is a mess and it's on belichik.  i wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot poll.  he's done.