Lamar Jackson leaves denver game with knee injury

[Behindenemylines]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The top 7 wasn't necessarily a ranking so much as it was the order I thought of them. I take the point on Herbert, I have commented on his 3rd Quarter disappearing acts and I get it, if they miss the playoffs this year he is 0-3 but I am also not as in love with the Chargers roster as other people and two of their best players - Bosa and Slater - are on IR. I think they are a less well coached version of the Bills in a sense in that week after week I see them asking Herbert to do too much. The Bills are better, Allen is better and McDermott is better... but they also have a tendency to ask the QB to do too much. 

 

I don't move folks down on age or health. Only performance and I am generally slow to move people up and down. Tua is an example of that. Based on this year he absolutely has a case to be in that next group. But 10 games isn't a big enough sample size. I give Hurts a bit more leeway because I think he was very clearly trending this way last year. 

 

Dak is a group too low. 

 

He is correct, but you haven't provided an alternative? Should 29 teams just go "oh well we have no chance, let's suck and hope we get an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow" ??

 

Only one of whom was a #1 pick. 

There may not be an alternative per se but an option:which is coaching.  Good coaches with a solid but fluent game plan will put their players and those players skill sets in the best position to function as a team against each opponent.  No team is 100 superstars. Dallas is star studded but coaching and management is a C+ to B- at best.  Green Bay had Rogers and didn’t lift the Lombardi yearly.  BB was legendary taking outcasts and second stringers and making them look like #1s.  Yes he had Brady but also his system for Brady to excel in-and eventually surpass. 
 

so asking for the alternative isn’t the right question 

 

 

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The top 7 wasn't necessarily a ranking so much as it was the order I thought of them. I take the point on Herbert, I have commented on his 3rd Quarter disappearing acts and I get it, if they miss the playoffs this year he is 0-3 but I am also not as in love with the Chargers roster as other people and two of their best players - Bosa and Slater - are on IR. I think they are a less well coached version of the Bills in a sense in that week after week I see them asking Herbert to do too much. The Bills are better, Allen is better and McDermott is better... but they also have a tendency to ask the QB to do too much. 

 

I don't move folks down on age or health. Only performance and I am generally slow to move people up and down. Tua is an example of that. Based on this year he absolutely has a case to be in that next group. But 10 games isn't a big enough sample size. I give Hurts a bit more leeway because I think he was very clearly trending this way last year. 

 

Dak is a group too low. 

 

He is correct, but you haven't provided an alternative? Should 29 teams just go "oh well we have no chance, let's suck and hope we get an Allen, Mahomes, Burrow" ??

 

Only one of whom was a #1 pick. 

[TheFunPolice]

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

Indy with Jonathan Taylor could be a good landing spot but not sure Baltimore would trade in conference. You're right Lamar skill sets limits where he can excel and to be honest think he reached his ceiling, the only way Baltimore gets better is if they improve their RBs and defense. Yet until Lamar can continually  beat teams from the pocket as a passer he and they aren't going anywhere past the first or second rounds of the NFL playoffs. 

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

 

I don't envy the Ravens in this decision at all.  I personally don't think you can win with him in the AFC.   Not with him on the same QB timeline as Allen, Mahomes and Burrow.

 

On the Niners, in the NFC, yea.. that could work.. until they need to find a way to fit their OL, Bosa, those linebackers, Kittle, Deebo, Aiyuk, CMC etc., under the salary cap with a (i'm guessing) close to 50M per year contract for Lamar?

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

There may not be an alternative per se but an option:which is coaching.  Good coaches with a solid but fluent game plan will put their players and those players skill sets in the best position to function as a team against each opponent.  No team is 100 superstars. Dallas is star studded but coaching and management is a C+ to B- at best.  Green Bay had Rogers and didn’t lift the Lombardi yearly.  BB was legendary taking outcasts and second stringers and making them look like #1s.  Yes he had Brady but also his system for Brady to excel in-and eventually surpass. 
 

so asking for the alternative isn’t the right question 

 

So Dallas should get better coaches? We don't disagree there. But the question is if you don't think you can get it done with someone as capable as Dak what do you do? Tear it all down? No. You get the best coaches you can and you work it out. 

[Behindenemylines]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So Dallas should get better coaches? We don't disagree there. But the question is if you don't think you can get it done with someone as capable as Dak what do you do? Tear it all down? No. You get the best coaches you can and you work it out. 

Yes exactly what I was trying to say. You can only run the ponies ya got, so the variable (stable variable) to me in these situations is coaching.  A good coach hides a multitude of sins.

 

Hypothesis if McBean were the tandem in Dallas.  Probably with this talent a SB appearance if not two. 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

If it was Jackson's ACL I wonder what would have happened. They would not be giving a running QB with a bum knee anything close to their previous offer. So they would probably try to tag him and maybe he holds out. I think everyone involved got lucky it's only a PCL injury. They are going to have to sign him and the longer they wait the more expensive it becomes 

I’m not sure it’s as you portray on the offer. QBs play by totally different rules with regards to value

 

i suspect he would’ve quietly accepted something in the ballpark of the ravens past offer. 

the team would be showing good faith not to pull it. QBs are near impossible to find. 

[Playoffs?]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

Except that they forgot to give him some receivers 

[K D]

16 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

I’m not sure it’s as you portray on the offer. QBs play by totally different rules with regards to value

 

i suspect he would’ve quietly accepted something in the ballpark of the ravens past offer. 

the team would be showing good faith not to pull it. QBs are near impossible to find. 

He's a different case in that his value is in his legs. He's not going to all of a sudden be a pocket passer once he can't run anymore 

[NoSaint]

3 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

He's a different case in that his value is in his legs. He's not going to all of a sudden be a pocket passer once he can't run anymore 

a single ACL injury is unlikely to change that. 
 

If Kirk cousins can cash in as a free agent, Lamar still would coming off anything short of an absolutely catastrophic injury 

[DasNootz]

6 hours ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

There goes that highest paid nfl guaranteed contract Lamar wanted.  What a greedy idiot

I don't think he was greedy - I think he just exposed himself to more risk than he should have.  These players have one shot at it.

Was Aaron Judge greedy to turn down the Yankees last season?  He turned down 7 years for $213.5 million - had a season for the ages and was rewarded with 9 years for $360 million. 

[DaggersEOD]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

The Ravens built an entire program around Lamar. That's what any other team would need to do (but likely won't).

 

IMO Harbaugh is a top 5 coach in the NFL, and that organization drafts well and tailored a team to help him succeed. 

 

Let's say he forces a trade somewhere else. SF would be deadly, because they are a similar "run the ball, play D, make some throws" style already. Other than that, where could you plug him in and have success without re-making the entire roster on offense? 

Obviously, that was what he needed when he first joined the league, but I’ve begun to wonder if that same system is now holding him back. 
 

He’ll never QB for the Bills, so I don’t care either way, but the way these negotiations have gone has made me wonder if he really does need a team to do that for him to be successful at this stage in his career. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Behindenemylines said:

Yes exactly what I was trying to say. You can only run the ponies ya got, so the variable (stable variable) to me in these situations is coaching.  A good coach hides a multitude of sins.

 

Hypothesis if McBean were the tandem in Dallas.  Probably with this talent a SB appearance if not two. 

 

which talent---that in Dallas??

 

no chance.

[Behindenemylines]

38 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

which talent---that in Dallas??

 

no chance.

Sonic McBeane was in Dallas with the talent they have they are not true SB contenders?  

[Mr. WEO]

26 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

Sonic McBeane was in Dallas with the talent they have they are not true SB contenders?  

 

First of all, they are "SB contenders" now (pretty much--in the NFC)...plus you said "a SB appearance, if not 2".

 

Second, the talent on  the Bills is superior.  No SB appearances yet

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Thank Allah we have Josh Allen. 

[CorkScrewHill]

Lamar to miss this week and most likely next week due to his PCL sprain

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/12/11/report-lamar-jackson-likely-to-miss-next-week-return-christmas-eve/

if they only lose one of the next two they will still control their own destiny, once Lamar is back, as it relates to the AFC North .. since they beat the Bengals already and play them the last week of the season. I would prefer the Ravens win the division as the Bengals to me are the bigger threat.

[Teddy KGB]

On 12/5/2022 at 4:41 PM, GunnerBill said:

 

I would really like to think it is not that.... because it is so stupid. 

1-3 more int’s than td’s in the postseason.   Tired of hearing how “good” he is and how he deserves more than Allen and Mahomes 🤮🤮

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

1-3 more int’s than td’s in the postseason.   Tired of hearing how “good” he is and how he deserves more than Allen and Mahomes 🤮🤮

 

So your problem with Lamar is a problem with the media. Got it.

[Teddy KGB]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So your problem with Lamar is a problem with the media. Got it.

another bad playoff performance = not giving him the contract he wants.   
 

itll be too concerning. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Teddy KGB