Lamar Jackson leaves denver game with knee injury

[AlfaBill]

9 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Lamar only makes that list because his running ability if I need a QB to get me 60 yards through the air in a minute with his arm I can't buy in to Jackson 

What’s his playoff record look like?

[RocCityRoller]

On 12/4/2022 at 1:57 PM, Limeaid said:

Ravens will see if team can perform without QB unwilling to talk on contract.

Yep, could work either way.

 

If Huntley plays well and Baltimore keeps winning, hurts Jackson

If Baltimore struggles Jackson's negotiating strength improves

 

Just heard that Jackson has a sprained knee and is doubtful next week.

[gobills404]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

Lamar with the Week to Week designation

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mikemac2001 said:

Sounds like he is going to miss 2-3 games 

When he got hurt last year he was “day to day” and ended up missing 5 games. 

 

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently.

And I don’t know of a single other “elite” QB who is so consistently terrible in the playoffs.

[GunnerBill]

40 minutes ago, TheBrownBear said:

I don't think it will ever end.  It's a byproduct of being in the same draft class as Allen and the media constantly playing both sides of the "who's better" argument.  LJ is the last remaining threat to the 2018 QB class throne, so there's always going to be some animosity there from certain segments of the Bills' fanbase.  

 

I would really like to think it is not that.... because it is so stupid. 

[Captain Hindsight]

38 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Lamar only makes that list because his running ability if I need a QB to get me 60 yards through the air in a minute with his arm I can't buy in to Jackson 

Lamar has 24 Career Rushing TDs. 101 Passing

[MAJBobby]

57 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

 

When he got hurt last year he was “day to day” and ended up missing 5 games. 

 

And I don’t know of a single other “elite” QB who is so consistently terrible in the playoffs.

OMFG don’t scare me like that. I saw Allen limited and freaked the ***** out. Then I noticed the date of the tweet. 

[Since1981]

Lamar really should have taken the #2 QB money offered. Like Wilson / Watson but Lamar is equal or better on/off the field. 

[Scott7975]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 

 

8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. 

 

I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently.

 

Yes because Lamar is not a good QB.  The excuses for him run thin.  That team wins because the team is good and the coach is good.  Lamar is a great athlete that can run with the football.  He is average as a passer and you cant really point to anything that says he isnt.  

 

Blame the GM for not giving him 10 star receivers.  Blame Roman for being a running game coordinator.  All excuses.  The guy has had multiple good receivers and no other coordinator is going to make him read the field and pass the football better.  Its the same thing it has been his entire career... any defense that can cover Andrews and contain Lamar from running will shut that team down.  They will always run into one of those defenses in the playoffs unless the stars align on a full red moon and Jupiter is passing Mars.  Thats why they will never be anything more than playoff fodder.

 

 

 

Completely average

 

Their offense barely dropped off with Huntley last season.  They had practically the same ppg.

 

incoming standard red x.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Yes because Lamar is not a good QB.  The excuses for him run thin.  That team wins because the team is good and the coach is good.  Lamar is a great athlete that can run with the football.  He is average as a passer and you cant really point to anything that says he isnt.  

 

Blame the GM for not giving him 10 star receivers.  Blame Roman for being a running game coordinator.  All excuses.  The guy has had multiple good receivers and no other coordinator is going to make him read the field and pass the football better.  Its the same thing it has been his entire career... any defense that can cover Andrews and contain Lamar from running will shut that team down.  They will always run into one of those defenses in the playoffs unless the stars align on a full red moon and Jupiter is passing Mars.  Thats why they will never be anything more than playoff fodder.

 

 

 

Completely average

 

Their offense barely dropped off with Huntley last season.  They had practically the same ppg.

 

incoming standard red x.

 

304 yards of offense per game from Lamar. 7-5

 

276 yards of offense per game with Huntlet. 1-3.

 

And I say that as a guy who was a Tyler Huntley fan before it was cool. I had a draftable 5th round grade on him coming out and thought he'd make a good backup. He went undrafted but has made a good backup. 

 

But the disrespect for Lamar continues a pace. It is well known I didn't like Josh coming out of that class. Less often remarked on - I didn't like Lamar either. I got the 2018 class way wrong. But you have to adjust your opinion with evidence. Lamar is a unique Quarterback and a unique football player. I don't think he is an elite passer. I don't even think he is an elite QB. But the idea that there are easily otbainable upgrades to Lamar Jackson is for the birds. He is a top 10 QB. And those guys deserve the respect they are due.

 

EDIT: we agree on one thing re. Lamar. Roman (who is super underrated as a rule) is the best coordinator for him. Because Greg Roman is a coordinator who thinks outside the box, thinks player first, scheme second and is a brilliant creative run game mind. If an OC arrived who wanted Lamar to just be a pocket guy that wouldn't be a fit. But it would be on the coordinator, not Lamar. 

Edited December 5, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Scott7975]

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

304 yards of offense per game from Lamar. 7-5

 

276 yards of offense per game with Huntlet. 1-3.

 

And I say that as a guy who was a Tyler Huntley fan before it was cool. I had a draftable 5th round grade on him coming out and thought he'd make a good backup. He went undrafted but has made a good backup. 

 

But the disrespect for Lamar continues a pace. It is well known I didn't like Josh coming out of that class. Less often remarked on - I didn't like Lamar either. I got the 2018 class way wrong. But you have to adjust your opinion with evidence. Lamar is a unique Quarterback and a unique football player. I don't think he is an elite passer. I don't even think he is an elite QB. But the idea that there are easily otbainable upgrades to Lamar Jackson is for the birds. He is a top 10 QB. And those guys deserve the respect they are due.

 

EDIT: we agree on one thing re. Lamar. Roman (who is super underrated as a rule) is the best coordinator for him. Because Greg Roman is a coordinator who thinks outside the box, thinks player first, scheme second and is a brilliant creative run game mind. If an OC arrived who wanted Lamar to just be a pocket guy that wouldn't be a fit. But it would be on the coordinator, not Lamar. 

 

Lamars last 5 games as a starter that season 19.2 ppg

Huntley 5 games played while Lamar was out 20 ppg

 

I dont view 28 yards of offense that big of a drop off when you are talking about a first round supposedly elite QB vs and UDFA backup.  As I said... there was barely any dropoff on offense.  Winning is a team stat.

 

I agree with pretty much all you said here but if Lamar were the Bills QB, I would want better.

Edited December 5, 2022 by Scott7975

[NoSaint]

18 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Lamars last 5 games as a starter that season 19.2 ppg

Huntley 5 games played while Lamar was out 20 ppg

 

I dont view 28 yards of offense that big of a drop off when you are talking about a first round supposedly elite QB vs and UDFA backup.  As I said... there was barely any dropoff on offense.  Winning is a team stat.

though we all know the difference between a good month and a stretch of several good seasons. 
 

 

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

though we all know the difference between a good month and a stretch of several good seasons. 
 

 

 

Sure.  I dont hate Lamar or anything.  He is fun to watch.  I just dont think he is a good passer and I think because of that he will always fail in the playoffs.  That is all.  The guy is always going to need a strong defense to keep the score close because Lamar is not going to win in a shootout.

 

Lol @GunnerBill I literally said I agree with most of what you said in your post.  Yet you give me a disagree mark.  Come on man lol.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

26 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Lamars last 5 games as a starter that season 19.2 ppg

Huntley 5 games played while Lamar was out 20 ppg

 

I dont view 28 yards of offense that big of a drop off when you are talking about a first round supposedly elite QB vs and UDFA backup.  As I said... there was barely any dropoff on offense.  Winning is a team stat.

 

I agree with pretty much all you said here but if Lamar were the Bills QB, I would want better.

 

You might want better. But that is extremely hard to attain. I think one of the problems with QB debates now with Bills fan is they judge Josh Allen as the standard. There are maximum 3 guys in the world who can do that. Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott get ripped on this forum and they are both miles better than anyone the Bills had in 20 odd years between Kelly and Allen. And I do mean miles.

Edited December 6, 2022 by GunnerBill

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You might want better. But that is extremely hard to attain. I think one of the problems with QB debates now with Bills fan is they judge Josh Allen as the standard. There are maximum 3 guys in the world who can do that. Lamar Jackson and Dak Prescott get ripped on this forum and they are both miles better than anyone the Bills had in 20 odd years between Kelly and Allen. 

 

I agree with you sort of.  Yes, teams need a good QB and Lamar is one of those.  He is going to win a lot of games with his athleticism.  The problem is that I dont believe he is ever going to get past both Josh and Mahomes or even Burrow to get to the show.  If he did by chance have that amazing season where the stars aligned, I do believe he could compete with the NFC because they dont really have a Josh or a Mahomes.

 

The only way Lamar is winning a SB is if he has stellar defense.  Once they pay this guy they aint going to have stellar defense.  They really dont even have stellar defense now IMO. Once he starts losing that athleticism then what?  He isnt a good enough passer to compensate.  Ive seen nothing in his 5 years in the league to show me thats going to improve.

 

More and more teams are already containing him in the AFC too.  They may have a good record this season but they havent beaten anybody other than Cinci.  That was barely a win and I dont think Cinci had Chase at the time either.  Win or lose they have struggle against most of their games this season.  I dont see that changing.  He isnt getting better as a passer. He is actually getting worse.  He isnt going to get better as an athlete.  Only thing they can do is get better on defense.  Thats not going to happen after they pay him unless they get some steals in the draft.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Scott7975

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you sort of.  Yes, teams need a good QB and Lamar is one of those.  He is going to win a lot of games with his athleticism.  The problem is that I dont believe he is ever going to get past both Josh and Mahomes or even Burrow to get to the show.  If he did by chance have that amazing season where the stars aligned, I do believe he could compete with the NFC because they dont really have a Josh or a Mahomes.

 

The only way Lamar is winning a SB is if he has stellar defense.  Once they pay this guy they aint going to have stellar defense.  They really dont even have stellar defense now IMO. Once he starts losing that athleticism then what?  He isnt a good enough passer to compensate.  Ive seen nothing in his 5 years in the league to show me thats going to improve.

 

More and more teams are already containing him in the AFC too.  They may have a good record this season but they havent beaten anybody other than Cinci.  That was barely a win and I dont think Cinci had Chase at the time either.  Win or lose they have struggle against most of their games this season.  I dont see that changing.  He isnt getting better as a passer. He is actually getting worse.  He isnt going to get better as an athlete.  Only thing they can do is get better on defense.  Thats not going to happen after they pay him unless they get some steals in the draft.

I think you’re getting ahead of yourself.  Once he gets paid there’s no chance of having a stellar D?  Decosta is the best drafter in the biz imo.  They can build a stellar D through the draft.  

[Scott7975]

53 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think you’re getting ahead of yourself.  Once he gets paid there’s no chance of having a stellar D?  Decosta is the best drafter in the biz imo.  They can build a stellar D through the draft.  

 

We shall see. I dont think they ever get there with Lamar at QB.

[Special K]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Ah we are bashing Lamar again are we? We normally wait until a Ravens loss for that. 

 

8-4 in the division lead despite Andrews, and Stanley missing multiple games and Bateman and Dobbins being on IR (that is arguably their best 4 players on offense other than Jackson). And yet there they are. 

 

I don't know a single other QB who gets as much criticism for winning so consistently.

 

Actually don't hate Jackson as much as I hate the sports media and pundits who are always trying to convince everybody that he is some kind of elite QB when its obvious that he is not.

 

I'm sure the Ravens or some other team will overpay for him.....heck, Kirk Cousins got big money.....I'm just glad that its not going to be the Bills who are shelling out big money for an incomplete QB. Jackson is a lot closer to Kyler Murray than he is to Josh Allen or Patrick Mahomes

[Doc]

I'd hate to be in the Ravens' shoes.  I think they're going to franchise him a couple times and then let him go.

[GunnerBill]

7 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you sort of.  Yes, teams need a good QB and Lamar is one of those.  He is going to win a lot of games with his athleticism.  The problem is that I dont believe he is ever going to get past both Josh and Mahomes or even Burrow to get to the show.  If he did by chance have that amazing season where the stars aligned, I do believe he could compete with the NFC because they dont really have a Josh or a Mahomes.

 

The only way Lamar is winning a SB is if he has stellar defense.  Once they pay this guy they aint going to have stellar defense.  They really dont even have stellar defense now IMO. Once he starts losing that athleticism then what?  He isnt a good enough passer to compensate.  Ive seen nothing in his 5 years in the league to show me thats going to improve.

 

More and more teams are already containing him in the AFC too.  They may have a good record this season but they havent beaten anybody other than Cinci.  That was barely a win and I dont think Cinci had Chase at the time either.  Win or lose they have struggle against most of their games this season.  I dont see that changing.  He isnt getting better as a passer. He is actually getting worse.  He isnt going to get better as an athlete.  Only thing they can do is get better on defense.  Thats not going to happen after they pay him unless they get some steals in the draft.

 

I don't think he is getting worse as a passer. I disagree there. I get the "can you see him getting past Mahomes, Allen and Burrow?" argument... and consistently, no I can't. I can't see Lamar reaching multiple Superbowls and have said that from the start. But is there a path to one in a lightening in a bottle season? Sure. Chase did play when they beat the Bengals btw. On a FG drive at the end that was pretty much all Jackson.

 

The bigger point though, even if he never gets to a Superbowl is what is the alternative for the Ravens? It is the exact argument I had when people were nonsensically saying the Cowboys should let Dak go. You can't stand and shout "stop the world I want to get off." It sucks for teams with QBs in the bottom half of the top 10 that the market isn't good at distinguishing the good (Lamar, Dak, Carr) from the great. But that is the market. Your alternative is to say stop the world I want to get off and suck until you find someone who is top 3 in the NFL. That is not a plan. It is a wing and a prayer. 

 

When you have a guy as good as Lamar you have to lean into it and build around him accordingly. The Ravens have done that well in terms of scheme. Not sure they have done as great a job with offensive weapons. But actually their mine issue this year and last has been keeping their guys (Lamar included) healthy. 

[Doc Brown]

18 hours ago, ddaryl said:

A bird in the hand !!!

I know he was holding out for a fatter contract but injury concerns may cost him. I think he had a solid deal on the table and I think he is a bit of fool for playing hardball for a few million more.

Young people feel invincible which is why you need an agent to lay out the cold truth.  I'm sure there's a lot of close friends and even teammates who are pushing him to get that DeShaun Watson fully guaranteed contract.  They don't have his best interests at heart.  As annoying as Murray is, he was smart enough to force his way into at minimum 104.3 million guaranteed which will likely be 160 million guaranteed.  If the Ravens offered him more than that he's an idiot for not taking it.  Especially since he won't have to give a tiny slice of it to his nonexistent agent.