If you are in the "pay Edmunds" camp, how much do you have in mind?

[No_Matter_What]

27 minutes ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

I feel dumber after reading some of the comments in this thread.  Thanks I guess?  Yes, you retain your pro bowl LB that has improved every year.  I know it pisses people off because they don't want to be wrong, but oh well.  People are forgetting the fact the cap is going up to 220-230 mill next year.  They will end up retaining both Edmunds and Oliver

I disagree. I don't know about other people but I am not forgetting cap going up ($220M for sure, $230M might be just your and mine dream). But the thing is that we have already calculated with that and spent that money.

 

We are paying top QB, CB, WR, DE, LT, LB, C, S, NCB. We have 9 guys over $10M and two more over $8,5M. And yes I do know that you can restructure and make other things to work with cap, but there are limitations. So it's not like cap is $230M hooray suddenly we have a lot of space. We have used it already.

 

Btw I do think we can make both Oliver and Edmunds work but it will be very complicated and require some other tough decisions. Like letting not only Poyer but also Taron Johnson go after this season.

Edited December 6, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[auburnbillsbacker]

On 12/4/2022 at 2:56 PM, TheWeatherMan said:

Franchise and trade.  Use the money to get a halfway decent oline.  

The tag will be over 19 million.  Edmunds could simply sign it and we are screwed cap wise, since we can't pro rate the cap hit over a longer period of time.  

[CircleTheWagons99]

On 12/4/2022 at 2:09 PM, Ralonzo said:

Would like to have him at the money they're paying Knox but they paid Knox.

Knox is worth it. We dont see it on the stat sheet, but he is one hell of a lineman. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

What Edmunds could sign for on the open market : 18mm+

 

What I'd like to see Edmunds sign for: 12mm

 

What the Bills can afford given their cap situation: ???

 

The Bills cap situation for 2023 is not being talked about enough in this thread. We already have 229mm in active contracts. That's 9mm over the projected cap of 220mm. 

 

The current number of 229mm does NOT include the 20 expiring UFA contracts at the end of this season. The most notable of which are Tremaine Edmunds and Jordan Poyer. 

 

It's going to be difficult to re-sign Edmunds at any price. Is he worth the cap shenanigans ? 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

58 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

I disagree. I don't know about other people but I am not forgetting cap going up ($220M for sure, $230M might be just your and mine dream). But the thing is that we have already calculated with that and spent that money.

 

We are paying top QB, CB, WR, DE, LT, LB, C, S, NCB. We have 9 guys over $10M and two more over $8,5M. And yes I do know that you can restructure and make other things to work with cap, but there are limitations. So it's not like cap is $230M hooray suddenly we have a lot of space. We have used it already.

 

Btw I do think we can make both Oliver and Edmunds work but it will be very complicated and require some other tough decisions. Like letting not only Poyer but also Taron Johnson go after this season.

My down and dirty cap and position estimates for 2023, assuming a $220M cap are as follows:

- 35 players under contract

- approx $10M over the cap

- restructures of top 7 or 8 would net approx $60M which would give Bills approx $50M in space

- biggest needs would be QB2, SWR, RB depth/starter, LG, IOL depth, RT depth/starter, MLB, S (if not Hamlin), P

 

So it’s doable, but it won’t be painless. $50M to cover 18 roster spots, a practice squad and injury relief is not that much. I can’t see the Bills burning a third of that on tagging Tre Edmunds. It would be better to ask him for last look after he tests the market if they don’t reach a deal before FA starts.

 

I didn’t cover possible cuts or extensions as I don’t want to get that sidetracked. Doing all of the restructuring above would also put a lot of cap pressure on 2024, but most of it will be necessary. The restructures will impact large extensions though. 
 

Spotrac for reference

Edited December 6, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Dopey]

39 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

What Edmunds could sign for on the open market : 18mm+

 

What I'd like to see Edmunds sign for: 12mm

 

What the Bills can afford given their cap situation: ???

 

The Bills cap situation for 2023 is not being talked about enough in this thread. We already have 229mm in active contracts. That's 9mm over the projected cap of 220mm. 

 

The current number of 229mm does NOT include the 20 expiring UFA contracts at the end of this season. The most notable of which are Tremaine Edmunds and Jordan Poyer. 

 

It's going to be difficult to re-sign Edmunds at any price. Is he worth the cap shenanigans ? 

 

 

IMO, hell yeah!

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, Chaos said:

I know we are supposed to hate PFF but they are one of the only sites that rank

olives. They rank the bills below average at 22nd.  Probably more reliable than your eye test of a couple of games per week.   

 

 

Perhaps if it were only my eyes. But it's not. Cover1 says this, Joe B does, the announcers who've weighed in agreed. Everyone, really. It's the consensus.

 

And frankly, it only makes sense. With a line that was below average, we wouldn't be as good as this offense is. It just wouldn't make sense. Even Allen gets worse when rushed consistently. And early in the year when they were having problems, the RBs weren't going anywhere. Now they are. There's several reasons for that but the main one is that the OL just plain is not below average, though at the beginning of the season calling them that might have been fair.

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

What Edmunds could sign for on the open market : 18mm+

 

What I'd like to see Edmunds sign for: 12mm

 

What the Bills can afford given their cap situation: ???

 

The Bills cap situation for 2023 is not being talked about enough in this thread. We already have 229mm in active contracts. That's 9mm over the projected cap of 220mm. 

 

The current number of 229mm does NOT include the 20 expiring UFA contracts at the end of this season. The most notable of which are Tremaine Edmunds and Jordan Poyer. 

 

It's going to be difficult to re-sign Edmunds at any price. Is he worth the cap shenanigans ? 

 

 

 

 

That is the question.

 

After signing Von Miller we left ourselves to two or three years of cap shenanigans. Not too many, they won't be like the Saints or anything, but making that move meant either really serious cuts or more than their usual shenanigans.

 

It's why if any of the guys who are question marks insist on max market value (a reasonable thing, really) they are not likely to be kept.

 

IMO Tremaine loves it here and will not insist on max. But will the discount he is willing to give be enough? IMO it will. But really we'll have to see.

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

My down and dirty cap and position estimates for 2023, assuming a $220M cap are as follows:

- 35 players under contract

- approx $10M over the cap

- restructures of top 7 or 8 would net approx $60M which would give Bills approx $50M in space

- biggest needs would be QB2, SWR, RB depth/starter, LG, IOL depth, RT depth/starter, MLB, S (if not Hamlin), P

 

So it’s doable, but it won’t be painless. $50M to cover 18 roster spots, a practice squad and injury relief is not that much. I can’t see the Bills burning a third of that on tagging Tre Edmunds. It would be better to ask him for last look after he tests the market if they don’t reach a deal before FA starts.

 

I didn’t cover possible cuts or extensions as I don’t want to get that sidetracked. Doing all of the restructuring above would also put a lot of cap pressure on 2024, but most of it will be necessary. The restructures will impact large extensions though. 
 

Spotrac for reference

Well put, mostly agree. Couple of notes only.

 

No way that Beane keeps Hines under his current contract, so I would almost say that we have 34 players under contract with -$5M cap space. He either takes much less or is gone. I mention him since his case is really obvious, unlike others (high cap hit + no guaranteed money).

 

I also hope/believe that Beane won't do all those restructures, since that would be the Saints way. Majority yes, we won't make it without it, but not all. That's what makes it even more tough.

 

Let's hope cap will be closer to $225M.

 

Agreed that we can't afford to tag Edmunds and keep him.

 

It will be a lot of "fun".

 

Anyway, like you said, let's not hijack this. Just good to have perspective when talking about Edmunds.

[BarleyNY]

3 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Well put, mostly agree. Couple of notes only.

 

No way that Beane keeps Hines under his current contract, so I would almost say that we have 34 players under contract with -$5M cap space. He either takes much less or is gone. I mention him since his case is really obvious, unlike others (high cap hit + no guaranteed money).

 

I also hope/believe that Beane won't do all those restructures, since that would be the Saints way. Majority yes, we won't make it without it, but not all. That's what makes it even more tough.

 

Let's hope cap will be closer to $225M.

 

Agreed that we can't afford to tag Edmunds and keep him.

 

It will be a lot of "fun".

 

Anyway, like you said, let's not hijack this. Just good to have perspective when talking about Edmunds.

Agree on Hines. I didn’t go down the road of possible cuts, but Hines would be my first for that or salary reduction. We’d be left with just Cook at RB (plus a FB). 

Edited December 6, 2022 by BarleyNY

[TheWeatherMan]

2 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said:

The tag will be over 19 million.  Edmunds could simply sign it and we are screwed cap wise, since we can't pro rate the cap hit over a longer period of time.  

Not sure where you’re getting $19M I’m seeing $17.4M estimated for the franchise tag.

 

https://overthecap.com/franchise-transition-and-rfa-tenders

[Straight Hucklebuck]

I have no idea how next year's cap is going to work. 

 

Bills are over the 2023 cap by $10M right now. 

 

The cap is expected to go up again to $220M - $230M. 

 

And right now I think I heard his extension will be something like 4-years, $55M.

 

Around $14M / year. 

[sunshynman]

3 hours ago, noacls said:

Oliver>Edmunds

 

I he stops you from keeping Oliver let him walk

Not until after next year. We already picked up Olivers 5th year for next year. The cap will go up. Paying Edmunds does not affect Oliver.

[Alphadawg7]

If Beane wants to keep Edmunds, he can make it work.  
 

There is no doubt he wants to.  The question is can Edmunds and Beane find common ground where the deal is acceptable to Edmunds and works for the team.  

 

IMHO:  We win the SB this year, the odds will increase that Edmunds is gone.  One, he will have his trophy, so maxing out his ear INTs for his family probably would be a higher priority IMO.  Two, with the Bills having that Lombardi, structuring for long term success and cap flexibility might be more attractive to Beane rather than cap manipulation and potential cap problems soon.  
 

So I think a SB victory might shift the landscape of Edmunds resigning here or not a little bit.  

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, sunshynman said:

Not until after next year. We already picked up Olivers 5th year for next year. The cap will go up. Paying Edmunds does not affect Oliver.

The Bills are at the point where contract decisions are budget constrained. It’s this-or-that, not yes-or-no. The Bills can conceivably retain both Oliver and Edmunds, but doing so will have consequences for other players and roster spots. 2024 cap spending is already at $215M for 26 players. Restructures this season will bloat it further. So will new contracts for Edmunds, Oliver or any other player signed through that year. As helpful as an increasing cap is, it is not keeping pace with our spending. 

[billsbackto81]

On 12/4/2022 at 2:08 PM, Playoffs? said:

How much is Milano making?

Doesn't matter. Milano at this point is a 17+ mil a season player. At his current price he's a steal. Arguably the best cover LB in football. Let's hope he doesn't insist on a renegotiation.

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

I have no idea how next year's cap is going to work. 

 

Bills are over the 2023 cap by $10M right now. 

 

The cap is expected to go up again to $220M - $230M. 

 

And right now I think I heard his extension will be something like 4-years, $55M.

 

Around $14M / year. 

Beane would take that in a second. Don't think Edmunds would.