Gabe Davis Ankle ???

[KHAN]

He came back too early from the ankle (IMO) because we lost Crowder and McKenzie at the same time. So he gutted it out, and has been healthy enough to be the best option. But I've definitely  seen him limping at times after plays. He has dropped balls he should have caught this year. But he's also become the whipping boy here for a few contested catches where the DB's made good plays as well.

 

I've even seen him blamed for the end zone play last week because "Diggs ran it better" LOL 😂

No **** Sherlock. He's Diggs.

 

He had separation, and Josh threw it out of bounds. His touchdown catch was great!

 

If Brown has anything left in the tank, Davis may get a good look as WR3 where he could really get a favorable match up.

[MarlinTheMagician]

22 hours ago, KHAN said:

He came back too early from the ankle (IMO) because we lost Crowder and McKenzie at the same time. So he gutted it out, and has been healthy enough to be the best option. But I've definitely  seen him limping at times after plays. He has dropped balls he should have caught this year. But he's also become the whipping boy here for a few contested catches where the DB's made good plays as well.

 

I've even seen him blamed for the end zone play last week because "Diggs ran it better" LOL 😂

No **** Sherlock. He's Diggs.

 

He had separation, and Josh threw it out of bounds. His touchdown catch was great!

 

If Brown has anything left in the tank, Davis may get a good look as WR3 where he could really get a favorable match up.

 

I think he came back early to help the team too.  So while I notice less sharpness out of his breaks and less separation, I think we should credit that he is a gamer and a team guy, and hope that he can play at an even higher level as he (hopefully) heals during this mini-bye and beyond.  The KC clip posted earlier of him breaking the ankle of Chiefs DB Hughes was a great example of what he can do.  He is also a ferocious competitor, a nasty blocker for a WR.  So I am thinking that while Gabe has been good, he has the potential to be much better - which would be a huge boost for Diggs and Allen.  Go Bills!! 

[RunTheBall]

Gabe will be fine he just needs to hit the juggs machine a bit more.

 

If he just caught the passes that hit him in the hands we wouldn’t be having this conversation. His drops are an issue but he can overcome it.

 

 

[Beck Water]

On 12/4/2022 at 10:48 AM, KHAN said:

He came back too early from the ankle (IMO) because we lost Crowder and McKenzie at the same time.

 

I'm sure he did come back too early from the ankle, but it had nothing to do with losing Crowder and McKenzie.  They were both available when he came back, as was Kumerow.

 

Davis came back for 96% of the snaps in Game 3, vs Miami, and played 98% of the snaps in Game 4. 

 

It was in Game 4 (with Gabe Davis already playing) that Crowder broke his leg and McKenzie went out with a concussion. 

 

Davis had a "breakout game" in game 5 vs Pitts, for 3 catches and 171 yds (also 1 INT while targeting him).  He had a good game, 3 catches for 74 yds, against KC the next week.

His timeline doesn't fit your theory, nor has he been on injury report since Week 5, when he was  "FP" all week with no game status. 

 

On 12/4/2022 at 10:48 AM, KHAN said:

So he gutted it out, and has been healthy enough to be the best option. But I've definitely  seen him limping at times after plays. He has dropped balls he should have caught this year.

 

A lot of players come up limping after plays.  Poyer was gimping after one play vs. NE.  I'm sure a lot of players are playing hampered, where they've gone off the injury report but they're still being bothered by and getting treatment for an injury.

 

This is now the 2nd year where Davis has injured his ankle early in the season, gone on and come off the injury report, but is said to be affected by the injury for weeks afterwards.  That may be true, but if he's going to injure the same ankle and be hampered to the point where he can't run crisp routes or hang on to contested catches for 2/3 of the season, two seasons in a row, he may not be a reliable WR #2 for a contending team.  I love the guy so I hate to say that, but it's true.

 

On 12/4/2022 at 10:48 AM, KHAN said:

But he's also become the whipping boy here for a few contested catches where the DB's made good plays as well.

 

I'm not in favor of the TBD fashion for scapegoating a player and for whipping boys. 

 

I'm also not in favor of excuse making for players - especially as you do above here, where you re-write the timeline to suit your idea.

 

Here's the thing: we watch other contenting (and even non-contending) teams where multiple WR bring in the contested catches.  Yes, it's unreal athleticism, but sometimes in a crunch, it can swing a close game.  We need more than 1 guy who can haul in a contested catch reliably.

 

On 12/4/2022 at 10:48 AM, KHAN said:

I've even seen him blamed for the end zone play last week because "Diggs ran it better" LOL 😂

No **** Sherlock. He's Diggs.
He had separation, and Josh threw it out of bounds. His touchdown catch was great!

 

Neither of us see how they're practicing that, but Josh has had several interceptions targeting Davis where Davis had separation, but after Josh threw, the DB gained position on him and jumped the route.  So I think that's where Josh has to throw it so it's "Gabe's ball or no one's ball", and it's "on" Davis to get where the ball has to be placed to avoid the pick.

 

And yes, it's an expectation of a quality NFL WR to run quality routes and not round them off.  It's not as though only the top 5 or 10 WR in the league can run crisp routes.  It may well be that Davis still can't cut sharply because of his ankle - see above then.

Yes, his TD catch was great.  Great "mind meld" with Josh.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by Beck Water

[MarlinTheMagician]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I'm sure he did come back too early from the ankle, but it had nothing to do with losing Crowder and McKenzie.  They were both available when he came back, as was Kumerow.

 

Davis came back for 96% of the snaps in Game 3, vs Miami, and played 98% of the snaps in Game 4. 

 

It was in Game 4 (with Gabe Davis already playing) that Crowder broke his leg and McKenzie went out with a concussion. 

 

Davis had a "breakout game" in game 5 vs Pitts, for 3 catches and 171 yds (also 1 INT while targeting him).  He had a good game, 3 catches for 74 yds, against KC the next week.

His timeline doesn't fit your theory, nor has he been on injury report since Week 5, when he was  "FP" all week with no game status. 

 

 

A lot of players come up limping after plays.  Poyer was gimping after one play vs. NE.  I'm sure a lot of players are playing hampered, where they've gone off the injury report but they're still being bothered by and getting treatment for an injury.

 

This is now the 2nd year where Davis has injured his ankle early in the season, gone on and come off the injury report, but is said to be affected by the injury for weeks afterwards.  That may be true, but if he's going to injure the same ankle and be hampered to the point where he can't run crisp routes or hang on to contested catches for 2/3 of the season, two seasons in a row, he may not be a reliable WR #2 for a contending team.  I love the guy so I hate to say that, but it's true.

 

 

I'm not in favor of the TBD fashion for scapegoating a player and for whipping boys. 

 

I'm also not in favor of excuse making for players - especially as you do above here, where you re-write the timeline to suit your idea.

 

Here's the thing: we watch other contenting (and even non-contending) teams where multiple WR bring in the contested catches.  Yes, it's unreal athleticism, but sometimes in a crunch, it can swing a close game.  We need more than 1 guy who can haul in a contested catch reliably.

 

 

Neither of us see how they're practicing that, but Josh has had several interceptions targeting Davis where Davis had separation, but after Josh threw, the DB gained position on him and jumped the route.  So I think that's where Josh has to throw it so it's "Gabe's ball or no one's ball", and it's "on" Davis to get where the ball has to be placed to avoid the pick.

 

And yes, it's an expectation of a quality NFL WR to run quality routes and not round them off.  It's not as though only the top 5 or 10 WR in the league can run crisp routes.  It may well be that Davis still can't cut sharply because of his ankle - see above then.

Yes, his TD catch was great.  Great "mind meld" with Josh.

 

 

 

 

All fair points, and it seems Khan may have got some of the timeline wrong (I didn't remember it as exactly as you set it out either), but that does not change what I suspect are the core facts:  (i) Davis is hurt, at least to a degree that affects his cuts and ability to separate on short and intermediate routes, (ii) if true, he is being a team guy, toughing it out and doing his best to help the team, (iii) while he ain't been too bad, I think that we have seen he can do more, and (iv) it is reasonable to hope that he might after some much-needed time off. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 12/4/2022 at 11:48 AM, KHAN said:

He came back too early from the ankle (IMO) because we lost Crowder and McKenzie at the same time. So he gutted it out, and has been healthy enough to be the best option. But I've definitely  seen him limping at times after plays. He has dropped balls he should have caught this year. But he's also become the whipping boy here for a few contested catches where the DB's made good plays as well.

 

I've even seen him blamed for the end zone play last week because "Diggs ran it better" LOL 😂

No **** Sherlock. He's Diggs.

 

He had separation, and Josh threw it out of bounds. His touchdown catch was great!

 

If Brown has anything left in the tank, Davis may get a good look as WR3 where he could really get a favorable match up.

Well, good thing he's had a mini-bye week here to ice the ankle up, get the Icy-Hot on it, and try to get another full week of practice in. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Well, good thing he's had a mini-bye week here to ice the ankle up, get the Icy-Hot on it, and try to get another full week of practice in. 

And a whole lot of tens unit

[Big Turk]

Well, bad news for Davis detractors...DVOA likes what he has done this year/last year and rankings for this year/last year.

 

DYAR: 155/111 - 16th/43rd

DVOA: 16.3%/9.2% - 12th/28th 

EYDS: 666/575 - 29th/56th 

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/wr/2022

 

methods explained here: 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#DYAR

 

For EYDS:

"Effective Yards (EYds) translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR."

 

So basically, the metrics say Davis has been a good receiver for us this year. By comparison, Diggs is #1 in DYAR at 377, 1 more than Tyreek Hill at 376.

 

EYDS says that Davis has done what has been expected of him in terms of yardage gained as his actual yardage total is 665, Effective Yards are 666.  Diggs has done significantly more...yards 1202, EYDS 1403.  He has been significantly higher this year than last year and so has Diggs...I would put this on the types of routes being ran and moving Diggs all around the formation.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Big Turk

[Gugny]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

Well, bad news for Davis detractors...DVOA likes what he has done this year.  

 

DYAR: 155 - 16th 

DVOA: 16.3% - 12th 

EYDS: 666 - 29th 

 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/nfl/wr/2022

 

methods explained here: 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#DYAR

 

For EYDS:

"Effective Yards (EYds) translate DVOA into a yards per attempt figure. This provides an easy comparison: in general, players with more Effective Yards than standard yards played better than standard stats would otherwise indicate, while players with fewer Effective Yards than standard yards played worse than standard stats would otherwise indicate. Effective Yards are not the best way to measure total value because they are more dependent on usage than DYAR."

 

So basically, the metrics say Davis has been a good receiver for us this year. By comparison, Diggs is #1 in DYAR at 377, 1 more than Tyreek Hill at 376.

 

EYDS says that Davis has done what has been expected of him in terms of yardage gained as his actual yardage total is 665, Effective Yards are 666.  Diggs has done significantly more...yards 1202, EYDS 1403.

 

Again ... I don't think many of us are saying he's not producing.  He is.  He's just making too many mistakes and it's hurting the offense.