Gabe Davis Ankle ???

[Big Turk]

19 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Because his catch number is really bad.

 

Gabe is not consistent. He has a lot of drops, and doesn't catch enough balls to keep drives alive on a team with one of the best QB's in the NFL throwing the ball more than most teams in the NFL.

 

6 games out of 11 with less than 40 yards. 4 of his last 6.

 

Now, the corollary is that he has had some REALLY bright spots as well. But again, I don't think it's crazy to expect more catches than Isaiah McKenzie.  If you think that's crazy, well, you're wrong lmao.

 

There are literally 4 #2 WRs in the NFL averaging more YPG than Davis. I don't understand where this over inflated expectation comes from #2 WRs in terms of production. Because it simply isn't true except for very few cases. It's really never been true.

 

Cincinnati, Miami, TB and Seattle are the teams with a #2 WR averaging more YPG than Davis. And in Seattle Metcalf is averaging 0.55 yards per game more.

 

I guess there are a LOT of disappointed teams out there.

 

Davis is 44th in targets and 27th in YPG so you can't even use the excuses he is being targeted more than other #2s, as this isn't the case.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

There are literally 4 #2 WRs in the NFL averaging more YPG than Davis. I don't understand where this over inflated expectation comes from #2 WRs in terms of production. Because it simply isn't true except for very few cases. It's really never been true.

 

Cincinnati, Miami, TB and Seattle are the teams with a #2 WR averaging more YPG than Davis. And in Seattle Metcalf is averaging 0.55 yards per game more.

 

I guess there are a LOT of disappointed teams out there.

How many of those #2 WRs had 25% of their yards in 1 game?

[Straight Hucklebuck]

16 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

I think the Bills absolutely should draft one regardless of my thoughts on Davis. Rookies are far cheaper than players on a second contract and if you can get similar production, it makes sense to pay a rookie versus a 2nd WR 8-12 million a year.

Exactly, his play this season is more of sign the Bills need to add an elite WR early in the draft, rather than he’s been an answer.

 

Beane is not going to give Davis another season to breakout as a good #2. 
 

The pipeline has to remain filled to maximize Allen’s prime. 
 

No danger of Davis being cut or anything like that, but he’s not going to  get Jake Kumerow and Jamison Crowder as the only competition for  the #2 job again. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

I think he might be the biggest disappointment of the season so far. It isn’t uncommon for young WRs to go through a period of drops and confidence dry spell, hopefully he leans on Smoke, Dirty, and Diggs to get through it. 

[Big Turk]

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

How many of those #2 WRs had 25% of their yards in 1 game?

 

10 minutes ago, FireChans said:

How many of those #2 WRs had 25% of their yards in 1 game?

 

Metcalf had 22.2% of his yards in one game.

 

Higgins had 18% of his yards in one game.

 

Godwin had 19% of his yards in one game.

 

Waddle had 19.1% of his yards in one game.

 

Guess you are determined to show somehow Gabe is different when he really isn't. Maybe he should have saved 30 yards for a different game tho...so his numbers would be "more in line" with these other ones.

 

People keep wanting to believe what they think is true even when statistics show it isn't. It's really mind boggling. 

Edited December 3, 2022 by Big Turk

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBear said:

To be honest, I probably didn't pay too much attention to Gabe's route running his first two years, but watching him this season, it just doesn't look very precise - everything looks very slow and "rounded.". I assumed it was lingering issues with the high ankle sprain, but maybe he's always been this guy?  If that's the case, we definitely need another no. 2 type.

I’ve been on this since his rookie season. He’s a naturally gangly loper, incapable of precise stops and starts.

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

Gabe’s numbers would look a lot better if he stopped dropping passes that hit him in the hands.

Then there’s this.

 

When Josh Allen is your QB, even McKittick can seem impressive.

[FireChans]

16 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

Metcalf had 22.2% of his yards in one game.

 

Higgins had 18% of his yards in one game.

 

Godwin had 19% of his yards in one game.

 

Waddle had 19.1% of his yards in one game.

 

Guess you are determined to show somehow Gabe is different when he really isn't. Maybe he should have saved 30 yards for a different game tho...so his numbers would be "more in line" with these other ones.

 

People keep wanting to believe what they think is true even when statistics show it isn't. It's really mind boggling. 

So all of the guys who are better than Gabe Davis are more consistent than Gabe Davis?  lol.

[The Wiz]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

 

Metcalf had 22.2% of his yards in one game.

 

Higgins had 18% of his yards in one game.

 

Godwin had 19% of his yards in one game.

 

Waddle had 19.1% of his yards in one game.

 

Guess you are determined to show somehow Gabe is different when he really isn't. Maybe he should have saved 30 yards for a different game tho...so his numbers would be "more in line" with these other ones.

 

People keep wanting to believe what they think is true even when statistics show it isn't. It's really mind boggling. 

Edmunds is the reason for this thread. 

 

He's playing well so the pitchforks are just leaning next to the door for some to pick up and they are getting antsy. 

[Beck Water]

33 minutes ago, folz said:

I am still a believer in Gabe Davis, despite agreeing that his season has not been as big of a break out year as most of us expected.

 

My questions would be:

1. Has the ankle been a lingering issue? Was out week 2 and severely hampered by it in weeks 3 and 4, but then it seemed to be better for the Steelers and KC games, and then he got the bye. I wouldn't expect it to still be an issue at this point, unless he kept tweaking it throughout the season. I've had two severe ankle sprains in my life and each time (even after it had for the most part healed), I kept tweaking it here and there for months after. It took a while to build back full strength and support.

 

2. Where is Gabe? Where is Knox? Where has McKenzie been (before the NE game)? Could some of their disappearance be Dorsey's play calling? This is a question, not a statement. Has Dorse had a harder time scheming these guys open than Daboll did for some reason? I don't think these players all of a sudden became bad. None of them are superstars, but we all feel that they haven't lived up to their projections thus far. Could it be a scheme/playcalling issue rather than they just all suck? How many of Gabe's receptions last year (especially his TDs) was he literally all alone (having left some DB 5-10 yards in the dust)? What is different this year?

 

3. Did Josh's elbow affect all WR production (sans Diggs) for a few weeks?

 

And yet, despite, the ankle (missing one game and being severely hampered in two others), the drops, a new OC, and a QB who wasn't quite himself for a few weeks, he is still putting up solid #2 WR stats. Not as spectacular as we all expected, but I do think he'll come around down the stretch.

 

 

Also, TBD loves their whipping boys/scapegoats. When things are going wrong, posters love to point to one or two players as the main reasons (rather than it being a full team issue). Look at how many posters would have gladly traded Tremaine away last year. That would have been a mistake, obviously. This year its Gabe, Dane, etc. I have no problem discussing player's short-comings, mistakes, areas that need improvement, etc. But I do think it is unproductive to just continually say a guy sucks and see everything he does that way.

 

Take for instance, this last game against NE. How many posters started trashing Gabe (about drops, etc.) when he didn't reel in his first three targets on Thursday? But, you know what? All three of those were bad balls from Josh. You could debate the pass in the end zone because Gabe did get his hands/finger tips on it, but Josh led him too much. The first ball was in the dirt. And the sideline pass would have taken him out of bounds (if Josh put it on his inside shoulder instead of outside shoulder, it could have been a big play). I'm not knocking Josh, not every pass is going to be perfect. But I'm sure a lot of posters saw those all as bad drops by Gabe (Davis sucks), rather than Josh being a little off with his throws. Was anyone saying Diggs sucks when he dropped that low pass from Josh on 3rd down in the 2nd half? Diggs also had a huge drop in the Vikings game.

 

And let's face it, the onside kick that Gabe muffed against the Browns was a very difficult ball (great kick right at his feet) that I'm not even sure Micah would have corralled. But to others, just another reason for Gabe sucking. Glad he got some redemption, snagging the onside kick in NE. But, once you put on the "this player sucks" glasses, that's all you'll see, whether it is true or not.

 

Having said all of that, I do agree that Gabe needs to step up his game and I think he will, but the constant trashing of him is getting old, imo.

 

You make a number of great points that I agree with fully - about the tiresome TBD theme of trashing players and making them whipping boys for all the team's ills (especially when there are probably multiple factors)

 

In different order:

 

3) Josh's elbow (or some other performance issue) was IMHO affecting Josh from the 2nd half of the Packers game on.  A lot of his throws were off - not hugely off, but enough off to take them from "you gotta catch that" into "a bit behind, a bit above, he could have caught it but it would have been a bit of a Circus Catch".  Still off on a few throws but they're getting fewer and further between.  Some of them were way off.  I don't believe Josh was trying to throw that red-zone ball away by dirting it.

 

1) I think the ankle may be a lingering issue from the injury prior to Game 2.  But he's not been on injury report since Steelers Week.  It was said Davis had an ankle that reportedly was a lingering issue (not on injury report, but per Sal Capaccio had visibly affected him) last season.  If a guy is going to have repeated performance issues linked back to the same lingering injury, that's kind of a problem.  

2) Overall play design/play calling has been an issue.  It's easier to have an effective pass game when you have an effective run game, for one.  Then, I think both Dorsey's play design, AND Josh's execution of it, has been affecting offensive production.  I think Dorsey's preferred answer for some of the defenses we're seeing is to have deep options soaking up the DBs, and then shallow options for quick hitters that allow good YAC.  The idea is to keep thatJosh took a bunch of those quick hitters vs. NE, so if this continues, I think we'll see happier days on offense.

 

Overall, though: the Bills gambled that Gabe Davis in his 3rd year was ready to take on the #2 WR spot, just as they gambled they'd get adequate slot production from some combination of a McKenzie/Crowder platoon, increased production from Knox, and a pass-catching RB.

 

Davis in terms of YPG has come up in production to a #2 WR, currently at #27 with 60.5 YPG, but #86 for receptions per game with just over 3.  So he's had some marvelous big plays, but not that consistency we'd like in terms of game-in, game out contributions.

 

 

I think he can level-up, but he needs to take a deep breath and do it.

 

Josh Allen said it:

"If anybody says they're playing injury-free in this league, they’re probably lying to you. Everybody’s battling injuries, battling bumps and bruises. If I’m going to be the guy that I think I am, I say I am and my teammates think I am, (then) I've got to go be that guy, so that's all there is to it."

 

 

[Success]

After that KC playoff game, I am not quitting on Davis.  It's there.  He just has to tap into it again.

 

When we least expect it, and when we need it the most - he's going to have a huge game for us.

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

So all of the guys who are better than Gabe Davis are more consistent than Gabe Davis?  lol.

 

Yeah because those extra 30 yards mean so much in terms of sample size.  Really trying way too hard.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

There are literally 4 #2 WRs in the NFL averaging more YPG than Davis. I don't understand where this over inflated expectation comes from #2 WRs in terms of production. Because it simply isn't true except for very few cases. It's really never been true.

 

Cincinnati, Miami, TB and Seattle are the teams with a #2 WR averaging more YPG than Davis. And in Seattle Metcalf is averaging 0.55 yards per game more.

 

I guess there are a LOT of disappointed teams out there.

 

Davis is 44th in targets and 27th in YPG so you can't even use the excuses he is being targeted more than other #2s, as this isn't the case.

It’s a fair point…but gabe has had so many opportunities for even more yards/tds and he just isn’t making the plays 

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

There are literally 4 #2 WRs in the NFL averaging more YPG than Davis. I don't understand where this over inflated expectation comes from #2 WRs in terms of production. Because it simply isn't true except for very few cases. It's really never been true.

 

Cincinnati, Miami, TB and Seattle are the teams with a #2 WR averaging more YPG than Davis. And in Seattle Metcalf is averaging 0.55 yards per game more.

 

I guess there are a LOT of disappointed teams out there.

 

Davis is 44th in targets and 27th in YPG so you can't even use the excuses he is being targeted more than other #2s, as this isn't the case.

Agreed. He’s on pace for 950-1,000 yards. That’s pretty darn good for a #2 WR. I think there were a lot of fans with unrealistic expectations that were based on #1 WR numbers. 

[Bob in STL]

Look back at the NE game, at the pass he missed in the end zone at the end of the game - he was led a bit too far, so I am not going to critique that.  What is noteworthy is that the announcer said it was the same route that Diggs ran and scored on, he said something like "same route as Diggs, only not run as well".   

 

He does a good job on long routes in getting in good position and using his size.  Davis needs a lot more work getting open on short and medium routes.  He will get more targets and be more useful if he can take that step. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

There are literally 4 #2 WRs in the NFL averaging more YPG than Davis. I don't understand where this over inflated expectation comes from #2 WRs in terms of production. Because it simply isn't true except for very few cases. It's really never been true.

 

Cincinnati, Miami, TB and Seattle are the teams with a #2 WR averaging more YPG than Davis. And in Seattle Metcalf is averaging 0.55 yards per game more.

 

I guess there are a LOT of disappointed teams out there.

 

Davis is 44th in targets and 27th in YPG so you can't even use the excuses he is being targeted more than other #2s, as this isn't the case.

 

 

I hear you about unreasonable expectations, but perhaps the fact that he's currently 47th for targets, but 72nd for receptions might have some bearing here?

 

It's great to have a guy who can break big plays every few games, but you also need guys who can get you first downs reliably.

 

 

 

 

[bourbonboy]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I think Gabe has to get better at winning the contested and hard catches. His win percentage is near the bottom for WRs. 

 

Tuning into this thread late, I am surprised that no one has brought up the bigger issue. Gabe is not on the same page as Josh. Many of JA's misses and interceptions were targets to Davis. Davis has extreme talent, but his head does not seem to be always in it, or at least not on the same page with his QB. Even the awesome TD vs NE, Josh led Gabe to the middle, well before Gabe thought to brake that way to catch it. The natural instincts and chemistry just do not seem to be there. And I was fully expecting it to be there. Just my two cents. Once the WR's have to scramble at all, I do not have faith in Davis. Really wish I did.

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, MarlinTheMagician said:

Gabe does not seem to be getting us much separation since the ankle injury.  Anybody know anything?  Gabe is a gamer, would not surprise me if it is still not right.  I think he could have a nice stretch run with this mini-bye to get healthy.  We need him to relieve more pressure from Diggs, IMHO.

Gabe doesn’t normally get separation, so to me, everything is normal…😉

[Putin]

6 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

Hopefully a few extra days off on the “mini-bye” helps a lot of these nagging injuries.

Hopefully healed ankle will help him hang on to the ball 

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I hear you about unreasonable expectations, but perhaps the fact that he's currently 47th for targets, but 72nd for receptions might have some bearing here?

 

It's great to have a guy who can break big plays every few games, but you also need guys who can get you first downs reliably.

 

 

 

 

This is an interesting take because I can remember him coming up clutch on 3rd down plenty of times to get the first and keep the chains moving. 

 

The last time he failed was against NYJ when yes, he dropped a pass that hit him in the numbers. 

 

Not like that has ever happened to any other WR in the league. 

46 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Gabe doesn’t normally get separation, so to me, everything is normal…😉

This right here. He never had unless he made a guy go the wrong way or was coming back for a Josh scramble throw. 

 

He's not a burner. 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I hear you about unreasonable expectations, but perhaps the fact that he's currently 47th for targets, but 72nd for receptions might have some bearing here?

 

It's great to have a guy who can break big plays every few games, but you also need guys who can get you first downs reliably.

 

 

 

 

 

Deeper depth of target and higher yards per catch means fewer receptions. Those two are not exclusive.