The obsession w/ how Josh Allen runs

[Success]

I tend to peruse other boards after our games, and it is incredibly repetitive - the whole narrative that "Allen will never last running  like that - he'll wash out just like Cam Newton."  

 

Obviously, it's a cope for fans who don't have a top-tier QB.  But, is it true?

 

After spending a few years worrying about the hits JA takes, I'm a total convert:  let Allen be Allen.  He plays the game like a kid, and that's what makes him so unique.  When big plays are needed, it's like he's in the backyard again, and I honestly think he thrives on the contact and mixing it up w/ the defense he's facing.  

 

It's a statistical fact that most QB's are injured in the pocket.  I think the Cam Newton comparisons are bogus - Cam doesn't have the same skillset as JA at all.  If it ever does come to a point where Allen has to change his style, he can be a pocket passer all day and still top 5 in the league.

 

Any thoughts?

 

[BullBuchanan]

Josh initiates most contact outside of the pocket. As long as he doesn't take an illegal hit, I'm really not worried about him getting significantly injured running the ball any more than I am him dropping back for a pass. He's 6-5 245. I'm more worried for the defender.

Edited December 2, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

I tend to peruse other boards after our games, and it is incredibly repetitive - the whole narrative that "Allen will never last running  like that - he'll wash out just like Cam Newton."  

 

Obviously, it's a cope for fans who don't have a top-tier QB.  But, is it true?

 

After spending a few years worrying about the hits JA takes, I'm a total convert:  let Allen be Allen.  He plays the game like a kid, and that's what makes him so unique.  When big plays are needed, it's like he's in the backyard again, and I honestly think he thrives on the contact and mixing it up w/ the defense he's facing.  

 

It's a statistical fact that most QB's are injured in the pocket.  I think the Cam Newton comparisons are bogus - Cam doesn't have the same skillset as JA at all.  If it ever does come to a point where Allen has to change his style, he can be a pocket passer all day and still top 5 in the league.

 

Any thoughts?

 

He can and most likely will need to be a pocket passer at some point. Let’s just hope they invest in the OLine when that happens. 

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

He can and most likely will need to be a pocket passer at some point. Let’s just hope they invest in the OLine when that happens. 

Maybe 10 years from now. I haven't watched him much this year, but through last year Rodgers was still plenty mobile.

 

[Fleezoid]

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

6 minutes ago, Success said:

I tend to peruse other boards after our games, and it is incredibly repetitive - the whole narrative that "Allen will never last running  like that - he'll wash out just like Cam Newton."  

 

Obviously, it's a cope for fans who don't have a top-tier QB.  But, is it true?

 

After spending a few years worrying about the hits JA takes, I'm a total convert:  let Allen be Allen.  He plays the game like a kid, and that's what makes him so unique.  When big plays are needed, it's like he's in the backyard again, and I honestly think he thrives on the contact and mixing it up w/ the defense he's facing.  

 

It's a statistical fact that most QB's are injured in the pocket.  I think the Cam Newton comparisons are bogus - Cam doesn't have the same skillset as JA at all.  If it ever does come to a point where Allen has to change his style, he can be a pocket passer all day and still top 5 in the league.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Josh is in Year 5 and Tony Gonzalez can't wait to ask him about sliding and getting out of bounds. 

 

And Josh said there has been plenty of talk about that. 

 

I just don't ever want our Coaches to take away his aggressiveness in the run or the pass. 

 

I don't want McDermott constantly in his ear to slide, or take the check-down. 

 

One of the other posters here had a chart where it showed QBs aggressiveness by expected yards gained verses turnover worthy plays, and Allen was virtually alone in the aggressive category. You want him there, not checking down, all game. 

 

We've asked our OC to get more people besides Diggs to get involved and help. Last night it was McKenzie again, and sticking with the run. Allen has 3 TDs if not for a Tommy Sweeney hold. 

[SoCal Deek]

This isn’t complicated. For right now, Josh is doing what he thinks he needs to in order to get his team to Super Bowl. He’s very much so aware of what he’s doing. He said as much in his postgame interview. I’m not going to fault him for it. Not one bit. 

[SinceThe70s]

12 minutes ago, Success said:

I tend to peruse other boards after our games, and it is incredibly repetitive - the whole narrative that "Allen will never last running  like that - he'll wash out just like Cam Newton."  

 

Obviously, it's a cope for fans who don't have a top-tier QB.  But, is it true?

 

After spending a few years worrying about the hits JA takes, I'm a total convert:  let Allen be Allen.  He plays the game like a kid, and that's what makes him so unique.  When big plays are needed, it's like he's in the backyard again, and I honestly think he thrives on the contact and mixing it up w/ the defense he's facing.  

 

It's a statistical fact that most QB's are injured in the pocket.  I think the Cam Newton comparisons are bogus - Cam doesn't have the same skillset as JA at all.  If it ever does come to a point where Allen has to change his style, he can be a pocket passer all day and still top 5 in the league.

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

I'm on the fence. I want Josh to be Josh - but I'm not gonna be happy when he has a season ending injury. 

 

As far as "It's a statistical fact that most QB's are injured in the pocket." That strikes me as similar to "most car accidents happen within a few miles of your home". Seems like it's statistically inevitable - that's where you spend most of your time driving. Plus most QB's will slide to avoid contact when out of pocket. Josh gets nutty outside the pocket, either initiating/embracing contact or trying to hurdle someone. I love it, but at some point he will end up missing time.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

9 minutes ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Josh is in Year 5 and Tony Gonzalez can't wait to ask him about sliding and getting out of bounds. 

 

And Josh said there has been plenty of talk about that. 

 

I just don't ever want our Coaches to take away his aggressiveness in the run or the pass. 

 

I don't want McDermott constantly in his ear to slide, or take the check-down. 

 

One of the other posters here had a chart where it showed QBs aggressiveness by expected yards gained verses turnover worthy plays, and Allen was virtually alone in the aggressive category. You want him there, not checking down, all game. 

 

We've asked our OC to get more people besides Diggs to get involved and help. Last night it was McKenzie again, and sticking with the run. Allen has 3 TDs if not for a Tommy Sweeney hold. 

This is anecdotal but he does seem to run less in games where we have a comfortable lead…and it seemed like a big emphasis while he was recovering from his shoulder injury to focus on the run game/keep him in the pocket.  

[bobobonators]

His aggressiveness is part of what makes him great. We want him to be aggressive. We want him to run. However, there IS a fine line between aggressive and careless. Trying to plow over a corner 1on1 to get into the end zone is aggressive. Low risk. High reward. Trying to hurdle a group of LB/DL that are all almost all the same size as Allen to gain one extra yard is careless. Really effin Cool, but careless. 
 

I never want Allen to lose his aggressiveness - but AT TIMES he needs to learn to rein it in and slide 1 yrd earlier.

[ToGoGo]

He simply doesn't have the cast and crew around him that players like Mahomes have had. If Allen stops being aggressive, he becomes a Herbert/Burrow level QB that's a tier below. Maybe that's what the fans and media want? 

[SoCal Deek]

People act like Josh just transported down from another planet. I’d virtually guarantee you he’s been playing this style of football since he was a little kid in the backyard. He knows exactly what he’s doing and how to protect himself. You and I wouldn’t do it…but we’re not Josh Allen. (At least I’m not.) 

[HardyBoy]

4 minutes ago, ToGoGo said:

He simply doesn't have the cast and crew around him that players like Mahomes have had. If Allen stops being aggressive, he becomes a Herbert/Burrow level QB that's a tier below. Maybe that's what the fans and media want? 

 

No, he is trying to force things to happen instead of being chill and letting them happen naturally.

 

Take the check down instead of trying for the deep play when it's not there. Pinning a team inside their 10 leads to you scoring next like 80%+ of the time. Let the other people on your team help you.

 

They have good amd dangerous players if given the ball in space, let them do stuff.

 

I don't buy the lack of YAC is because of accuracy. I think it's cause he's not taking easy throws and instead is fitting balls into windows that are tiny and defenders are swarming right away. It's amazing and he shouldn't stop doing that, but a 5 yard check down with 15 yards YAC is way less risk and the same outcome as a 20 yard laser between 3 defenders with no YAC.

 

Situational awareness and playing as a point guard to ensure all players are engaged. Then in the fourth quarter, if needed go wild. Look at how Chris Paul plays point guard in the NBA.

[bobobonators]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

People act like Josh just transported down from another planet. I’d virtually guarantee you he’s been playing this style of football since he was a little kid in the backyard. He knows exactly what he’s doing and how to protect himself. You and I wouldn’t do it…but we’re not Josh Allen. (At least I’m not.) 

Yesterday’s hurdle into a crowd of defenders doesnt scream “I know what I’m doing”; it’s more instinct - I’ve done this before I’ll do it again. 
 

Past performance does not guarantee future success (re injuries)
 

This is not criticizing Allen. We all just want him to have a really long career. And ultimately the argument isn’t “don’t run” Allen. It’s “run but when the situation clearly calls to slide - slide”. Those are two different arguments. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by bobobonators

[stevestojan]

The minute he starts playing scared of injuries is the minute he gets badly injured. 

[PatsFanNH]

37 minutes ago, Success said:

I tend to peruse other boards after our games, and it is incredibly repetitive - the whole narrative that "Allen will never last running  like that - he'll wash out just like Cam Newton."  

 

Obviously, it's a cope for fans who don't have a top-tier QB.  But, is it true?

 

After spending a few years worrying about the hits JA takes, I'm a total convert:  let Allen be Allen.  He plays the game like a kid, and that's what makes him so unique.  When big plays are needed, it's like he's in the backyard again, and I honestly think he thrives on the contact and mixing it up w/ the defense he's facing.  

 

It's a statistical fact that most QB's are injured in the pocket.  I think the Cam Newton comparisons are bogus - Cam doesn't have the same skillset as JA at all.  If it ever does come to a point where Allen has to change his style, he can be a pocket passer all day and still top 5 in the league.

 

Any thoughts?

 

A coping? Or perhaps we see how other QBs who run like Allen have fared. The fact is their careers were shortened because of injury and they couldn’t adapt their game to be a pocket passer. Could Allen buck the trend? Maybe but it’s not coping point out his style has not fared well in the NFL. 

[Mikie2times]

Little concerned about blowing a knee out. Sometimes we see the air Allen, but defenders go at his legs with force and every time they land one it’s scares this crap out of me. I think the biggest difference from Josh and just about any comp or even unfair comp, is when Josh can no longer be mobile he will be just fine. His mobility gives him another dimension, but he can also beat you from the pocket just fine. 

[Matt_In_NH]

39 minutes ago, Success said:

I tend to peruse other boards after our games, and it is incredibly repetitive - the whole narrative that "Allen will never last running  like that - he'll wash out just like Cam Newton."  

I live in NE and this is all I hear about him.   I have to say, I do have some concerns about that if I'm being honest.  I think sliding a little more often depending on down/distance/situation is a good idea.

[PatsFanNH]

2 minutes ago, stevestojan said:

The minute he starts playing scared of injuries is the minute he gets badly injured. 

Not what most of us mean. We are talking about the Bills playing him like he is Newton or Lamar Jackson. Having him run the ball and get recked constantly. The sad thing is he is a better QB than both of them and he could be derailed by one bad leg injury. We saw how Mahomes was with a minor leg injury. (And yes he is probably the only QB in the NFL perhaps better than Allen)

2 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

Little concerned about blowing a knee out. Sometimes we see the air Allen, but defenders go at his legs with force and every time they land one it’s scares this crap out of me. I think the biggest difference from Josh and just about any comp or even unfair comp, is when Josh can no longer be mobile he will be just fine. His mobility gives him another dimension, but he can also beat you from the pocket just fine. 

I agree!  But that’s if it’s only his legs, Newton arm got destroyed by the nasty hits he took. He had a noodle arm by the time he got to NE. 

[ToGoGo]

8 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

No, he is trying to force things to happen instead of being chill and letting them happen naturally.

 

Take the check down instead of trying for the deep play when it's not there. Pinning a team inside their 10 leads to you scoring next like 80%+ of the time. Let the other people on your team help you.

 

They have good amd dangerous players if given the ball in space, let them do stuff.

 

I don't buy the lack of YAC is because of accuracy. I think it's cause he's not taking easy throws and instead is fitting balls into windows that are tiny and defenders are swarming right away. It's amazing and he shouldn't stop doing that, but a 5 yard check down with 15 yards YAC is way less risk and the same outcome as a 20 yard laser between 3 defenders with no YAC.

 

Situational awareness and playing as a point guard to ensure all players are engaged. Then in the fourth quarter, if needed go wild. Look at how Chris Paul plays point guard in the NBA.

 

I don't think it's one or the other.

 

Yes, he can make better decisions. But do you think the TD to Gabe Davis last night was a good decision? There's things he can do that nobody else can.

 

But the run game was working last night. WRs were making plays. Allen didn't have to put the entire team on his back like he did against the Dolphins. The defense was holding it's own. So he only made a few plays like that.