Greg Cossell not pulling any punches on Bills: "This is not a super talented offense"

[Logic]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

This certainly wasn't your perspective last spring.    Same with @eball.  

 

Lotta' guffawing when it was sensibly pointed out that the Bills were thin at WR and expecting too much from unproven,  injury prone and low pedigree talents.

I believe that if you go back to my pre-draft posts, you'd find that I openly advocated for the Bills to spend a high pick on a wide receiver, and to spend premium assets on the offense in general. Where I generally differed from you and ScottLaw was that I did not feel -- as you and Scott seemed to -- that it was the ONLY way forward, and that not doing so would constitute an outright, unforgivable mistake by Beane. Given that the Bills offense is currently ranked 2nd in PPG 11 games into the season, and that the defense is ranked 5th in PPG allowed despite being absolutely ravaged by injuries, I don't feel I was too far off base.

I do admit that I poked fun at you and ScottLaw about the concerns over the outside WR positions. I felt that Gabriel Davis would step up and become a viable #2. For all of the vitriol thrown his way this season, Davis is currently ranked 23rd in the league in receiving yards and has as many receiving TDs as Mark Andrews or Justin Jefferson do.

Where I thought they could use help in terms of weaponry -- and I still feel this way -- is in the slot. I DID think that between McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir, one of them would step up. I admit to being totally wrong in this case. Obviously, none of them has. 

 

 

[eball]

34 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

This certainly wasn't your perspective last spring.    Same with @eball.  

 

Lotta' guffawing when it was sensibly pointed out that the Bills were thin at WR and expecting too much from unproven,  injury prone and low pedigree talents.

 

And, again, it's easy to go back and find my posts in which I supported WR in R1 and signing OBJ.  I just felt that upgrading the DL was more important.

 

[GolfandBills]

I think it’s obvious to all of us we need more talent in our skill positions.  

[TH3]

6 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

I think it’s obvious to all of us we need more talent in our skill positions.  

Bills are #2 scoring offense and #1 point differential 

17 minutes ago, Logic said:

I believe that if you go back to my pre-draft posts, you'd find that I openly advocated for the Bills to spend a high pick on a wide receiver, and to spend premium assets on the offense in general. Where I generally differed from you and ScottLaw was that I did not feel -- as you and Scott seemed to -- that it was the ONLY way forward, and that not doing so would constitute an outright, unforgivable mistake by Beane. Given that the Bills offense is currently ranked 2nd in PPG 11 games into the season, and that the defense is ranked 5th in PPG allowed despite being absolutely ravaged by injuries, I don't feel I was too far off base.

I do admit that I poked fun at you and ScottLaw about the concerns over the outside WR positions. I felt that Gabriel Davis would step up and become a viable #2. For all of the vitriol thrown his way this season, Davis is currently ranked 23rd in the league in receiving yards and has as many receiving TDs as Mark Andrews or Justin Jefferson do.

Where I thought they could use help in terms of weaponry -- and I still feel this way -- is in the slot. I DID think that between McKenzie, Crowder, and Shakir, one of them would step up. I admit to being totally wrong in this case. Obviously, none of them has. 

 

 

Bills are #2 scoring offense….what do you want?

Crowder got hurt

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He made one mid range FA move to improve it. I didn't like that move. But leave that aside he didn't do enough.

As long as McDermott is here offense won't be the priority.

 

He's a great culture builder. But his and Beane's lack of care for the offense is pretty obvious to all but the biggest McDermott fans .

[Sharky7337]

Need more of this kinda press to motivate them 

[Nuncha]

6 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Andrew Luck apology number 3,264,927,141

Colts did pretty well with a washed up Rivers and got a decent year out of Carson Stench.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Nuncha

[BobbyC81]

6 hours ago, Greg S said:

The OL has been a problem for a while. I thought our WR corps would be better than they have shown. Diggs has been great, but the rest have been average at best. Either way Beane is going to have improve the OL this offseason and bring in another playmaker at WR to give Diggs some help. For this season the only option is to sign OBJ. Injuries have also been a factor but you can say that for every team in the league so that is no excuse. Just a reality that every team could face.

They could draft one this off-season but consider the probable talent with the 32nd pick.

[whorlnut]

2 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

We’ve had a top-five offense sometimes number one or number two for three years running now. We certainly can’t use the “misleading” tag after three seasons. Or can we?

Yeah it’s misleading because 2 guys are carrying the bulk. If you want to look at just rankings that’s fine, but a deeper dive shows you this offense has holes. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, BobbyC81 said:

They could draft one this off-season but consider the probable talent with the 32nd pick.

 

28th.

[Nihilarian]

6 hours ago, Logic said:

Cosell is right: the Bills offense, outside of Allen and Diggs, is nothing special. It depends too much on Allen being Superman every week.

The Bills offense is very productive, ranked 2nd in PPG.

The Bills are a very good team overall.

Dorsey needs to do a better job utilizing the weapons he DOES have, including the speed of Cook and Hines and the quickness of McKenzie.

All of these things are simultaneously true somehow. It's a confusing situation, with definite "chicken or the egg" facets to it.

Any way you slice it, it would be absolutely in the best interest of Josh Allen and the Bills as a whole if Beane spent the entire offseason building up Josh's protection and weaponry. Just pretend the defense doesn't exist this offseason. I don't even care. Weapons, protection. Weapons, protection. Wash, rinse, repeat.

To a point. We should see after this game tonight as the team did have some time to actually practice a bit. 

 

First off, defense wins championships... no question! 

 

Then, looking back at the playoffs last season the Bills line held their own all the way up to those god-awful 13 seconds. In which the Bills in a "prevent defense" lost that game for them.  Everyone but the line players were 15 yards off the LoS.

 

The Bills have a new play caller who is learning as he goes. Think back to 2018 and what was Daboll like? Peterman over Allen, really?

 

Everyone complaining about the offense needs to realize the 2022 Buffalo Bills in week 13 have the #2 offense in points scored. #2 offense in yards! Granted that's mostly due to the alien unicorn the Bills have at QB. 

 

If anything the offense needs to be more innovative much like Daboll was last season...just run the ball more like they did at the end of last season. 

 

My take is the current receiving corps they have is good enough. I am on board with upgrading that offensive line though.  

 

 

[without a drought]

What team has a super talented offense when you take away their QB and/or their top weapon?

 

 

 

[Sharky7337]

7 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Tom Brady is the GOAT. Regularly turned average receivers into good ones.

Not towards the end though nkeal Harry and Myers weren't salvageable for terrific tom.

[EffKCChiefs]

He says this when away from One Bills Live, but when he is on that show all he does is gush about the Bills. I don't get it, right or wrong. 

[BillsFanSD]

He's right.  17 and 14 are both fantastic.  Nobody else has stepped up at the skill positions, and the OL is a mess.  

 

If you watch non-Bills games, you see teams like this all the time.  They can be successful and make the playoffs, but they don't make deep runs.  If we had an elite defense that would change things, but we don't with all the injuries so it doesn't.  If Tre were interested in playing and the CB we drafted in the first round was ready to see the field and we weren't putting our HOF edge rusher on IR for some reason maybe I would be more optimistic.  As it is, we are highly likely to drop one of the next three games, which will make the division an uphill climb. 

 

The good news is that we get 17 and 14 back next year, and the defense will be healthy in August.  Maybe we'll have better luck then.  

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

You’re lumping in catch ratio with the idea that Gabe’s talent level is substandard. Aren’t you forgetting about production,(tds, yds, receptions and a team’s record) and what’s the Knox deficiency? Motor has been productive with the limited touches in Dorsey’s offense and Cook looks like he’s explosive. This is a talented offense that has been flat for a few games in the middle of a long season against a tough schedule. You’re pointing to some games where drops happened, but let me remind you Davis has been great on the biggest stage, the playoffs. His performance in consecutive games against NE and KC are two of the best in Bills history. He was great against Indy in his rookie year. How quickly we forget.

 

Who are you talking to, because it doesn't seem to be me.  I've said nothing about Gabe Davis talent level being 'substandard'

 

Neither has Cosell, actually.  He said we have "one very good WR and a bunch of guys".  "Bunch of guys" would mean "average players" not "substandard"

 

I do think Gabe's catch % is sub-par for a #2 WR, but that can relate to a lot of factors besides talent.  

 

You're showing up with a pretty hot defense of our guys, which is fine, but I think it misses Cosell's point.  He's not saying the Bills players other than Josh and Diggs are talentless scrubs or that they never "flash" and have great games where they're "King for a Day".  But he's saying (as I take it), looking at their full body of work, they're not outstanding, or even above-average talents. 

 

Cosell watches a lot of film, so he'd be doing some "eyeball test" there, but basic stats kind of back that up.  For example, if you sort by receiving yards, Miami has two receivers in the top 32 (#1 Hill and #5 Waddle).   Gabe is likely an above average #2 WR, taking his body of work as a whole, and at times he can take over a game, but he's inconsistent and can also disappear for games.

 

It's like our #3 guy, McKenzie or our TE Dawson Knox. No one could deny they've both had games where he single-handedly ruined the other team's day, and I'm sure Cosell would grant them that.  But they do it on occasion.  We would all like more consistency.

 

Davis is a game wrecker more often, but again - it's not as consistent as one would like to really call him a top receiver.

 

I'm outta here, sorry, I don't have the patience now-a-days to sort through the style of discussion here.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Beck Water

[TN Bills Fan]

Early in the year Cosell said Bills had the worst guard tandem in the league.  Correct!

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

I think it’s obvious to all of us we need more talent in our skill positions.  

 

 

Going into the future, yes.

 

Are our needs so serious that we aren't going to be able to compete very seriously for a Super Bowl? No, not at all. 

 

 

2 hours ago, TN Bills Fan said:

Early in the year Cosell said Bills had the worst guard tandem in the league.  Correct!

 

 

Not at all.

 

 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Who are you talking to, because it doesn't seem to be me.  I've said nothing about Gabe Davis talent level being 'substandard'

 

Neither has Cosell, actually.  He said we have "one very good WR and a bunch of guys".  "Bunch of guys" would mean "average players" not "substandard"

 

I do think Gabe's catch % is sub-par for a #2 WR, but that can relate to a lot of factors besides talent.  

 

You're showing up with a pretty hot defense of our guys, which is fine, but I think it misses Cosell's point.  He's not saying the Bills players other than Josh and Diggs are talentless scrubs or that they never "flash" and have great games where they're "King for a Day".  But he's saying (as I take it), looking at their full body of work, they're not outstanding, or even above-average talents. 

 

Cosell watches a lot of film, so he'd be doing some "eyeball test" there, but basic stats kind of back that up.  For example, if you sort by receiving yards, Miami has two receivers in the top 32 (#1 Hill and #5 Waddle).   Gabe is likely an above average #2 WR, taking his body of work as a whole, and at times he can take over a game, but he's inconsistent and can also disappear for games.

 

It's like our #3 guy, McKenzie or our TE Dawson Knox. No one could deny they've both had games where he single-handedly ruined the other team's day, and I'm sure Cosell would grant them that.  But they do it on occasion.  We would all like more consistency.

 

Davis is a game wrecker more often, but again - it's not as consistent as one would like to really call him a top receiver.

 

I'm outta here, sorry, I don't have the patience now-a-days to sort through the style of discussion here.

 

 

I don't think he's even saying that.

 

There are talents on the offense that are indeed above average beyond Diggs and Allen. Hell, even the offensive line is playing overall at a slightly above average level, though Quesenberry at LT with a sprained ankle certainly didn't look terrific. Yet we ran the ball down the throats of a pretty good DL on a defense that is well above average both at run defense and overall.

 

Is Gabe disappearing for periods of time? Yeah. But that happens with #2 WRs. It's kind of why they're not #1s.

 

Fair enough on discussion style. There are a lot of trolls / wild-eyed pessimists on here. Particularly for a 9-3 team that's ranked very high on offense.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I don't think he's even saying that.

 

There are talents on the offense that are indeed above average beyond Diggs and Allen. Hell, even the offensive line is playing overall at a slightly above average level, though Quesenberry at LT with a sprained ankle certainly didn't look terrific. Yet we ran the ball down the throats of a pretty good DL on a defense that is well above average both at run defense and overall.

 

Is Gabe disappearing for periods of time? Yeah. But that happens with #2 WRs. It's kind of why they're not #1s.

 

Fair enough on discussion style. There are a lot of trolls / wild-eyed pessimists on here. Particularly for a 9-3 team that's ranked very high on offense.

We’re Josh and Diggs. Our RBs I’ll say have talent when given the opportunity.

 

Davis is a scramble drill WR or someone that can sneak behind the defense. He should’ve had a deep one tonight.