Greg Cossell not pulling any punches on Bills: "This is not a super talented offense"

[The Frankish Reich]

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:35 PM, Jerome007 said:

Morse, Dawkins are good. OLine is not as bad as portrayed. Not a strength, but people pile on too much.

 

How many teams are stacked with only top talent? Ridiculous. 2nd scoring offense. Knox, Davis are better than average. Sure it's not Kelce or the Jefferson/Thiele duo but anyway

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Dawkins: very good 

Morse: average in his decline phase

Rest of O Line: replacement level

Knox: someday potential may translate to actual play. Now? Average

Davis: better than average, not clear how much room for improvement there 

RBs: average

So …. he’s not wrong. 
EDIT: I checked PFF just for fun. More or less agrees with me other than Singletary and Cook rate quite well (above average) and Davis rates as purely average at best

Edited December 1, 2022 by The Frankish Reich

[Governor]

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:33 PM, Big Turk said:

 

Tom Brady won Super Bowls with less talent on offense.

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We don’t have the physical  defenses Brady had and we never will under this regime.

[Jauronimo]

  On 12/1/2022 at 6:59 PM, John from Riverside said:

Well gunner, I really hope that that’s the case and not a situation where injuries dictate that we have to play him and then all of a sudden he has a career day

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A career day for Shakir would be 4 catches for 32 yards.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:35 PM, Jerome007 said:

Morse, Dawkins are good. OLine is not as bad as portrayed. Not a strength, but people pile on too much.

 

How many teams are stacked with only top talent? Ridiculous. 2nd scoring offense. Knox, Davis are better than average. Sure it's not Kelce or the Jefferson/Thiele duo but anyway

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or even Hill/Waddle/Giesecki

 

 

[Scott7975]

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:27 PM, FilthyBeast said:

Interesting thoughts here on the Ross Tucker podcast from NFL insider Greg Cossell. Basically stating the obvious with JA17 being surrounded by a bad oline not much else outside of Diggs:

 

 

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He is correct but I am sure you were super excited to see this so you could run here and post it.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

  On 12/1/2022 at 6:39 PM, Big Turk said:

 

Well...if Teller was playing like that here, he wouldn't have been traded.

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They'll allow ALLLLLL kinds of time for a guy like Oliver, but Teller didn't even see the start of a season.

 

Spilled milk now, but they'd better start taking stocking the offense's cabinet seriously.

 

[John from Riverside]

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:18 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

or even Hill/Waddle/Giesecki

 

 

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I mean, what does this even mean so Miami put their money into their offense

 

yet

 

The bills are still in the top five of office without allocating all of the resources towards it

 

and Miami’s defense is not that good

 

 

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:21 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

They'll allow ALLLLLL kinds of time for a guy like Oliver, but Teller didn't even see the start of a season.

 

Spilled milk now, but they'd better start taking stocking the offense's cabinet seriously.

 

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Teller handling was obviously a mistake

[Beck Water]

  On 12/1/2022 at 5:50 PM, whorlnut said:

How about taking a guy like Dylan Parham in round 3 rather than an undersized defender like Bernard?

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I haven't seen him play, but I know he's been starting for the Raiders.  So if he can start somewhere in the league as a rookie, OK.

 

The one that really torques me is 2021, Boogie Basham in the 2nd round 2 picks ahead of where KC took Creed Humphrey, when we'd already drafted for DE in the 2nd round of 2020 and the 1st round of 2021.  Humphrey isn't just starting, he's starting for one of the best teams in the league.

 

I know we had Morse at C, but Humphrey said he could play guard and I believe it from his physicals.  We coulda done what the Bills did with Eric Wood, play him at G a season or 2 and then moved him over.  And I hear "don't draft for need, but Basham is a guy Beane reported telling "don't be satisfied with your role as a backup, go out and compete to be a starter" - in the 2nd round, after a year, that's what you're telling a guy?

 

Grumph.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:22 PM, John from Riverside said:

I mean, what does this even mean so Miami put their money into their offense

 

 

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That's exactly the point. It's where the Bills should be spending while we have an all-world QB

 

[Beck Water]

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:21 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

They'll allow ALLLLLL kinds of time for a guy like Oliver, but Teller didn't even see the start of a season.

 

Spilled milk now, but they'd better start taking stocking the offense's cabinet seriously.

 

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What are you talkin' about?

 

Teller started 7 games for the Bills at LG in 2018

Did they give him enough time or, in hindsight, make a talent evaluation mistake, sure. 

 

But c'mon man don't revise what factually occurred.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:25 PM, Beck Water said:

 

What are you talkin' about?

 

Teller started 7 games for the Bills at LG in 2018

Did they give him enough time or, in hindsight, make a talent evaluation mistake, sure. 

 

But c'mon man don't revise what factually occurred.

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My bad. The point still kind of stands.

 

unless 7 games is now the standard.

 

[Beck Water]

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:25 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

That's exactly the point. It's where the Bills should be spending while we have an all-world QB

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In hindsight, that was probably Carolina's mistake with Cam Newton - making a strategic decision that an all-world QB could compensate for a mediocre OL and middling WR corps, and I share concerns that Beane is going down a path to replicate that mistake.

 

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:26 PM, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

My bad. The point still kind of stands

unless 7 games is now the standard.

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No, but the point is the Bills did have 7 games of film where he looked better than Vlad Ducasse (a very low bar) but not good.  When you go back and look at it through the lens of that off season, the Bills were determined to immediately upgrade the OL to "serviceable" in front of Allen so it was a numbers/position game.   It's been hashed out here a bunch of times, so I'm not gonna go into more depth on it here.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Beck Water

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

hell of a thread for "gameday" isn't it. oh, I know, I hear the echo's now that the truth hurts. well, I have still enjoyed the hell out of this team more then I have teams of recent years. you would almost dread gameday, knowing chances were always good the bills would lose.

 

now, they put up a fight with the team they have and gut it out, making for a good watch on gameday. sure, they could do better at some positions but sitting at 8-3 going in a divisional match up, no need to be crying the blues on what they need, save that for the offseason. they are who they are and they'll do their best to get the job done with the personnel they have to work with and may even surprise that cossell character and win this game.

[whorlnut]

  On 12/1/2022 at 7:23 PM, Beck Water said:

 

I haven't seen him play, but I know he's been starting for the Raiders.  So if he can start somewhere in the league as a rookie, OK.

 

The one that really torques me is 2021, Boogie Basham in the 2nd round 2 picks ahead of where KC took Creed Humphrey, when we'd already drafted for DE in the 2nd round of 2020 and the 1st round of 2021.  Humphrey isn't just starting, he's starting for one of the best teams in the league.

 

I know we had Morse at C, but Humphrey said he could play guard and I believe it from his physicals.  We coulda done what the Bills did with Eric Wood, play him at G a season or 2 and then moved him over.  And I hear "don't draft for need, but Basham is a guy Beane reported telling "don't be satisfied with your role as a backup, go out and compete to be a starter" - in the 2nd round, after a year, that's what you're telling a guy?

 

Grumph.

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This one burns me as well. It was really tough at the time and it only gets worse as we see how good Humphrey has become since then. 

[Mango]

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:34 PM, JayBaller10 said:

Tom Brady is the GOAT. Regularly turned average receivers into good ones.

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Brady had a better OL a lot of the time and is a better pure passer than Josh. Agreed though, he is the goat. 

That said, I think that once a QB signs the dotted line on a mega-deal the expectation is that they elevate average receivers and average OL on a regular basis. I include guys like Rodgers when I say that. There is clearly some nuance with FO's and coaching, but there has to be some understanding that taking a significant portion of the cap comes with consequences. 

 

EDIT: This is where the FO trading Teller, or drafting a million RB's in the top 100, or pass rushers over and over again bites us. You lose an opportunity to upgrade another position when you start doubling up to make up for unmet expectations. 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Mango

[Thurman#1]

 

 

 

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:33 PM, Big Turk said:

 

Tom Brady won Super Bowls with less talent on offense.

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Yup. The most common formula for winning an SB is to have a great QB and a really good defense. There are other ways but that's the most common. 

 

You can't have a really bad group surrounding the QB. And we don't. They've got no other superstars than Diggs and Allen but the rest are good or better.

 

It'd be nice if you could have sensational players at every position, but it's not realistic.

 

 

[WideNine]

I certainly think we could better scheme and involve more of our playmakers not named Diggs, but defenses have adapted better to contain offenses with QBs like ours.

 

It is the nature of the game. When one team does well frustrating an offense other teams copy that and add their own wrinkles.

 

Sharp had an article that kind of touched on that though he focused on the Chiefs and other offenses and did not include Allen and our offense in the mix which was odd.

 

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/defense-blitz-coverage-staley-fangio-2022-sharp-football-preview/

 

 

 

[Chaos]

  On 12/1/2022 at 4:33 PM, Big Turk said:

 

Tom Brady won Super Bowls with less talent on offense.

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When did Brady win with an oline the quality of the Bills current online?

[GunnerBill]

  On 12/1/2022 at 6:59 PM, John from Riverside said:

Well gunner, I really hope that that’s the case and not a situation where injuries dictate that we have to play him and then all of a sudden he has a career day

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He will break out at some point. I think his talent dictates that. I am still sure it will happen for him. But at the moment he isn't on the field as much as Isaiah because Isaiah is getting open more than he is. It is that simple

[WhoTom]

It's not a super-talented offense, yet it manages to put up an average of 28 points per game, second only to KC.