Would Cole Beasley come back to Buffalo?

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Disagree. We have to ride with Isaiah this year. He is the best guy. Then we need to think about the slot plan again in the spring. I'd rather see Isaiah than Shakir on a critical down, I'd rather see him than Crowder on a critical down and I'd much rather see him than the corpse of Cole Beasley's career on a critical down. 

Well we agree he is not a good slot option moving forward.  We also agree he’s unfortunately still been the best option thus far this year.  
 

We just disagree there are ways to improve upon him this season.  
 

Fair enough.  Truthfully, I don’t expect us to make any moves (don’t see us signing Cole and I think OBJ goes to Dallas).  Only hope is Shakir starts to get more involvement and rises to the occasion.  With how slow they prefer to bring rookies along, I don’t think we will get a chance to find out if he can over take McKenzie this year without injuries factoring in.  

 

So we probably stuck with McKenzie regardless anyway.  Again, love him as a role player type guy, but he is not a good full time slot player.  He’s let Josh down a number of times this year already.  

[C.Biscuit97]

What a sad thread. Yeah, what this offense needs a short guy who averages 7 ypc and tweets a million dumb things like an emo high school. Move on. 

59 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Unfortunately the 2021 mishandling of Beasley  effectively ended Cole’s career, and it’s a damn shame. Cole’s polarizing stance on  his personal medical autonomy ended his appeal for other franchises. He was injured and played through it last year and it affected his production. Josh loved him and trusted him and we weren’t able to replace him from within. Hopefully it doesn’t come back to haunt us.

He ended his own career. He thinks he’s some deep thinker when he gets all information from random internet sites and Joe Rogan. And when you’re not good, no one wants to deal with you.

 

a hot chick in her 20s gets away with saying dumb stuff. Now when she’s 40, people aren’t going to put up with it as much. 

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

What a sad thread. Yeah, what this offense needs a short guy who averages 7 ypc and tweets a million dumb things like an emo high school. Move on. 

He ended his own career. He thinks he’s some deep thinker when he gets all information from random internet sites and Joe Rogan. And when you’re not good, no one wants to deal with you.

 

a hot chick in her 20s gets away with saying dumb stuff. Now when she’s 40, people aren’t going to put up with it as much. 

Agree he said  some inflammatory, imbecilic things, but don’t confuse that with his toughness and ability. This guy was hurt all year and stiff caught .80 balls. Josh loved him as a security blanket and he fearlessly went over the middle and got knocked into next Tuesday. He’s got plenty left. By the way, what do you care about his silliness away from the field?

[Beck Water]

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

McKenzie is not the answer in the slot.  He is a gadget player, he isn’t a guy who can make a tough catch in traffic or get tough yards.  He also is not a refined route runner and has made mistakes many times on his routes that hurt us this year. 

 

Take aged well.  🙄 

 

Tell me about McKenzie's route running mistakes this year - what games, what routes?  I'll go look.  I can think of one.  I can think of another where someone made a route running mistake (or, it was a crap route design that spaced the receivers too close) but based on how routes are usually structured I think it was Gabe.

 

17 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I would rather see Shakir out there than McKenzie on a key third down.

 

Based upon what evidence? 

 

Shakir had a promising game and 1/2 second half of Ravens and vs. Pittsburgh with McK out.  But since then, he's had a steady 16 snaps per game.  Looks like teams got a bit of film on him and figured him out.

 

If he's preferable to have out there on a key 3rd down, he would surely have more than 3 catches on 7 targets in his 122 snaps during the last 7 games. 

 

I mean, the coaches get GPS data on speed and acceleration and separation from other players in addition to film.  They see the players in practice. 

 

What is this whole "I would rather see player B instead of player A" based on? 

 

I will grant you this - I would rather see Hines or Cook taking handoffs in the backfield than McKenzie.  My evidence is that McKenzie is smaller and slighter and I think they're both better able to protect the football and get YAC.

[C.Biscuit97]

41 minutes ago, Eastport bills said:

Agree he said  some inflammatory, imbecilic things, but don’t confuse that with his toughness and ability. This guy was hurt all year and stiff caught .80 balls. Josh loved him as a security blanket and he fearlessly went over the middle and got knocked into next Tuesday. He’s got plenty left. By the way, what do you care about his silliness away from the field?

Trust me, I was one of the biggest fans of us signing him. Very tough little dude and very productive player. But even if he learned to not tweet his every thought like a teenager, he was a declining player. 
 

again, everyone is welcome to their own opinion. If Diggs was saying the same stuff as Beasley, we would overlook it. But when you’re not as good, no one wants the distraction. Bills fans need to turn the page, especially with McKenzie starting to play much better.

[Eastport bills]

22 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Trust me, I was one of the biggest fans of us signing him. Very tough little dude and very productive player. But even if he learned to not tweet his every thought like a teenager, he was a declining player. 
 

again, everyone is welcome to their own opinion. If Diggs was saying the same stuff as Beasley, we would overlook it. But when you’re not as good, no one wants the distraction. Bills fans need to turn the page, especially with McKenzie starting to play much better.

Well said, he’s in the rear view.

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Take aged well.  🙄 

 

Tell me about McKenzie's route running mistakes this year - what games, what routes?  I'll go look.  I can think of one.  I can think of another where someone made a route running mistake (or, it was a crap route design that spaced the receivers too close) but based on how routes are usually structured I think it was Gabe.

 

I mean do you really expect me to have a log of game film time stamps of when they occurred?  There have been several, including ones that cost us a touchdown, not to mention several other mistakes like dropped passes in traffic, bobbled pass for an INT, etc.  Then there is the he goes down if the wind blows too hard.  

 

This makes it sound like I dont like him...but I actually do really like McKenzie...in the right role...I just don't like having to depend on him doing things he does not excel at, especially in gritty moments.  

 

This isn't new news either...There have been multiople discussions or threads this season and how the slot position has been an issue and McKenzie isn't getting it done.

 

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Based upon what evidence? 

 

Shakir had a promising game and 1/2 second half of Ravens and vs. Pittsburgh with McK out.  But since then, he's had a steady 16 snaps per game.  Looks like teams got a bit of film on him and figured him out.

 

I didn't say there was evidence, I am talking about getting Shakir more reps to try and develop him more.  I already said in another post that thus far McKenzie has unfortunately been the better slot player this season, but at the same time, that doesn't mean he has been good either.  

 

With Shakir, I would rather see him getting experience to see if he can bring more to the position come playoff time.  

Allen needs more help...surprisingly Davis is struggling with catching consistently, and we have inconsistent production out of the slot.  I would like to see someone out there who can make that tough catch in traffic, fight for more yards, etc.  

 

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

If he's preferable to have out there on a key 3rd down, he would surely have more than 3 catches on 7 targets in his 122 snaps during the last 7 games. 

 

I mean, the coaches get GPS data on speed and acceleration and separation from other players in addition to film.  They see the players in practice. 

 

What is this whole "I would rather see player B instead of player A" based on? 

 

That is not really a fair picture of what is going on IMO...this staff is notorious for preferring to bring rookies along slowly when they can.  Even Davis as a rookie didn't get any real relevant play until John Brown got hurt.  

 

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I will grant you this - I would rather see Hines or Cook taking handoffs in the backfield than McKenzie.  My evidence is that McKenzie is smaller and slighter and I think they're both better able to protect the football and get YAC.

 

With handoffs...I would much rather see Devin taking more handoffs than any of them.  He is the better runner.  Cook is faster, but he is slow to the hole, and does not have good vision yet.  If he gets a hole right in front of him he can pop a nice gain, but man he misses so many opportunities for yards every game.  Im fine with them as one two punch...but Devin should be the lead dog IMHO and Cook as a change of pace.  

 

I would like to see Devin get 15-18 touches and Cook like 10-12 touches (running and receiving) per game type balance.  

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I mean do you really expect me to have a log of game film time stamps of when they occurred?  There have been several, including ones that cost us a touchdown, not to mention several other mistakes like dropped passes in traffic, bobbled pass for an INT, etc.

 

I can see where that sounds a little unreasonable.  But this is what you wrote that I was responding to: "McKenzie......has made mistakes many times on his routes that hurt us this year."

 

Now a lot of us fans can remember plays during the season that we feel really cost the Bills, be it a fumble or a dropped ball or whatever.  Since you feel McKenzie has not just "many mistakes on his routes" but that specifically have hurt us this year, I just thought you might be able to remember a few of those route running mistakes as far as at least what game, what quarter etc etc. to where a fellow fan could go have a look.

 

Because to the entirety of what you said: "McKenzie is not the answer in the slot.  He is a gadget player, he isn’t a guy who can make a tough catch in traffic or get tough yards.  He also is not a refined route runner and has made mistakes many times on his routes that hurt us this year." - I mean, C'mon - you're talking about a guy who followed up a 6 reception, 1 TD, 103 Y/Sc game where he mostly caught deeper balls, with a 5 reception on 5 targets, 44 yd game, where some of those yards were tough.  And he's looked to me as though he's improved pretty damn well on his routes.

 

So in that context, what you say seems to need a bit of evidence to bolster it. 

 

Yes, McKenzie has had mistakes, so have basically every skill player on the team this season. 

 

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I actually do really like McKenzie...in the right role...I just don't like having to depend on him doing things he does not excel at, especially in gritty moments.  

 

OK, so you don't want to depend on McKenzie, even though he has had good games and, to accompany his mistakes, has actually contributed 5 TD and 25 1D to go with his gaffes (and not from gadget plays). 

 

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I didn't say there was evidence, I am talking about getting Shakir more reps to try and develop him more.  I already said in another post that thus far McKenzie has unfortunately been the better slot player this season, but at the same time, that doesn't mean he has been good either.  

 

With Shakir, I would rather see him getting experience to see if he can bring more to the position come playoff time.  

 

Instead you want to see less McKenzie (who has contributed) and more Shakir (who has not contributed much, yet, in the ~16 snaps he gets every game), to "develop Shakir" - even though as you point out:

 

6 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Allen needs more help...surprisingly Davis is struggling with catching consistently, and we have inconsistent production out of the slot.  I would like to see someone out there who can make that tough catch in traffic, fight for more yards, etc. 

 

I think you might want to re-think this a bit.  There seems to be some logical inconsistency.

 

BTW, Davis has almost the same catch % this season as his previous seasons, and his drop % is just a bit higher.  So I'm not sure where the surprise is.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Beck Water

[Warriorspikes51]

If he’ll be ready to play within a few weeks, sign him.

[Beck Water]

On 12/2/2022 at 8:26 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

Well we agree he is not a good slot option moving forward.  We also agree he’s unfortunately still been the best option thus far this year.  
 

We just disagree there are ways to improve upon him this season. 

 

TBH, having delved into it a bit, I think that Dorsey all along intended to redistribute the way the slot was used, partly onto a pass catching RB and partly onto a TE.  I don't think he's gotten as far as he wanted because apparently Cook 2.0 struggled a bit to adapt to the NFL and he's needed to keep backs/TE in to chip on pass plays.  Not that he didn't intend to use McKenzie and Crowder as slot receivers, but that he intended to re-design the scope of the role.

 

But with Cook now apparently starting to "get it", and with Dorsey starting to run 2 back sets, we may yet see (what I think was ) Dorsey's plan come to fruition.

 

On 12/2/2022 at 8:26 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

Fair enough.  Truthfully, I don’t expect us to make any moves (don’t see us signing Cole and I think OBJ goes to Dallas).  Only hope is Shakir starts to get more involvement and rises to the occasion.  With how slow they prefer to bring rookies along, I don’t think we will get a chance to find out if he can over take McKenzie this year without injuries factoring in. 

 

Shakir is getting a steady 16-ish snaps per game to show what he can do with them.  If he starts getting open and making plays, he'll get more.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Beck Water

[Saxum]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:26 AM, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Fair enough.  Truthfully, I don’t expect us to make any moves (don’t see us signing Cole and I think OBJ goes to Dallas).  Only hope is Shakir starts to get more involvement and rises to the occasion.  With how slow they prefer to bring rookies along, I don’t think we will get a chance to find out if he can over take McKenzie this year without injuries factoring in.  

 

 

Bills do not always bring rookies along slowly.  They have started rookies in past.  It depends on what system they went to college, their skillset and how well they do in camp.

 

Cornerback Christian Benford in Round 6 of the 2022 NFL Draft started vs Rams in opener.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/58838/LA_Gamebook.pdf

 

McKenzie is better as 3rd WR as opposed to slot receiver.

 

[Beck Water]

25 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Bills do not always bring rookies along slowly.  They have started rookies in past.  It depends on what system they went to college, their skillset and how well they do in camp.

 

Cornerback Christian Benford in Round 6 of the 2022 NFL Draft started vs Rams in opener.

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/58838/LA_Gamebook.pdf

 

McKenzie is better as 3rd WR as opposed to slot receiver.

 

 

Um....the WR #3 usually is the guy who plays from the slot, ie, the "slot receiver".  The slot receiver usually plays off the LOS and gets a free release.  If you mean McKenzie would be better lined up on the LOS and having to fight for a clean release...No.  No, he wouldn't.  He's worked hard to improve there, but I think he'd tell you himself: "I line up across from someone a lot bigger, and I think OK, I can run by him..unless he gets his hands on me, then I'm in trouble".  He can be jammed on the LOS and taken out of the play.  It's why the Bills don't play him outside, even though one would think his speed would lend itself to that.

 

You are, of course, completely correct that there isn't some organizational "let's bring the rookies along slowly" policy on the Bills.  Gabe Davis would be another example of a rookie who saw extensive playing time from Day One - because of how he practiced and played in pre-season and then because of what he did with the snaps he got.  In fact, Daboll said the Bills played more 4 and 5 WR sets in 2020 than he'd planned, simply because of how well Davis played.

Edited December 4, 2022 by Beck Water

[DrPJax]

On 12/2/2022 at 10:21 AM, C.Biscuit97 said:

What a sad thread. Yeah, what this offense needs a short guy who averages 7 ypc and tweets a million dumb things like an emo high school. Move on. 

He ended his own career. He thinks he’s some deep thinker when he gets all information from random internet sites and Joe Rogan. And when you’re not good, no one wants to deal with you.

 

a hot chick in her 20s gets away with saying dumb stuff. Now when she’s 40, people aren’t going to put up with it as much. 

       Don’t want to say much about a player who is retired , yet there are several pages devoted to his “ return”:already posted here, and included was a discussion about certain rights ;  plus he is the subject of your post if I am reading that correctly.   Sorry if I’m wrong  😊  An analogy might be some people apparently are arguing over/ discussing a certain Supreme Court ruling involving similar rights involving one’s body. 
     Reading all the posts suggesting they would welcome Beas back , I wonder why a player would ever want , theoretically, to return to play in a community where he was cursed at ( sadly many names were used on these pages, not by you ) and insulted with name calling such as “ he thinks he is some deep thinker”?  I apologize if there is any similarity to real life as I mean no disrespect. 
     Just asking a simple question as most players seem to prefer going to where they are wanted, right? I mean he did play through a broken fibula in the playoffs, an admirable trait you would think might make him a fan favorite and he did help in Josh’s developement! 
Booing probably doesn’t make one feel “ wanted” either,  but hey , I am no expert or pro athlete.  Tampa did CHOSE him , he just decided to retire later, so “ no one wanting to deal with him” is probably factually incorrect ; sorry to point that fact out.
     
     Because you are not someone who gets random info and obviously stays on top of facts  that are not obtained from someone like Rogan as mentioned in your post,  might I just suggest to consider reading an experts published email after performing accepted research. Irs an official recommendation for all Florida Med professionals ( to all pharmacists, Drs for example) SENT FROM the Fl Surgeon General ( not a Rogan type or some random site 😊).  It’s not in medical jargon either!  Science evolves and the surgeon general is well recognized and published. His latest email from the Fl. dept of health , went out to all medical professionals on 12/2/22, so it’s current.  Google can prob find it if you’re interested.  Denmarks actions are interesting as well. Just some sources that seem professional , perhaps useful to those with families , and it’s just an example that sometimes things we thought we knew, perhaps changed as we have learned more.  ( not my personal opinions being offered,  just providing one example of a resource for educational purposes that are interesting, not random,not political,  that are on the internet  😊) Just wondered if it’s possible to view Beas in a different light as you stated he ruined / ended his own career ?  
     I agree with you about Beas , as much as I like him , prob can’t offer much two years past his best season with the Bills. Maybe Crowder will heal soon enough to come back and contribute!  Mckenzie is good but risky to depend on.  Who knows what they are doing with shakir?  Happy holidays!  🎄

[Chandler#81]

55 minutes ago, turftoe said:

I think he is an older prospect due to being a Mormon missionary for 2 years.

 

 

On 12/2/2022 at 12:51 PM, Beck Water said:

 

Take aged well.  🙄 

 

Tell me about McKenzie's route running mistakes this year - what games, what routes?  I'll go look.  I can think of one.  I can think of another where someone made a route running mistake (or, it was a crap route design that spaced the receivers too close) but based on how routes are usually structured I think it was Gabe.

 

 

Based upon what evidence? 

 

Shakir had a promising game and 1/2 second half of Ravens and vs. Pittsburgh with McK out.  But since then, he's had a steady 16 snaps per game.  Looks like teams got a bit of film on him and figured him out.

 

If he's preferable to have out there on a key 3rd down, he would surely have more than 3 catches on 7 targets in his 122 snaps during the last 7 games. 

 

I mean, the coaches get GPS data on speed and acceleration and separation from other players in addition to film.  They see the players in practice. 

 

What is this whole "I would rather see player B instead of player A" based on? 

 

I will grant you this - I would rather see Hines or Cook taking handoffs in the backfield than McKenzie.  My evidence is that McKenzie is smaller and slighter and I think they're both better able to protect the football and get YAC.

I’ll give you this; McKittick has no better fan than you. As a pro player, he’s an afterthought. More poor plays than good. I continue to hope Beane finally sees this and thanks him for his service after the season -while parting ways.

[Manther]

1 minute ago, Manther said:

Always love this!  Awkward and awesome at the same time!

Classic Turd Ferguson!

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

I’ll give you this; McKittick has no better fan than you. As a pro player, he’s an afterthought. More poor plays than good. I continue to hope Beane finally sees this and thanks him for his service after the season -while parting ways.

 

McKenzie converted 4 1D on his 5 receptions vs. the hated Cheatriots, the week after he converted 4 1D and a TD on his way to 103 Y/Sc for a much-needed road win against the Lions - and what you have to say as a fan is "More poor plays than good, I hope Beane finally sees this and kicks him to the curb".  Jeebus.

 

McKenzie is not a great or maybe even an average pro player.  He is physically limited - a Smurf.  Yes he makes mistakes.  I'm pretty sure he has far more Homer fans than I, who would not ack that. 

 

I would be happy if we had a better WR on the roster this season (hint: Shakir is not it at present, despite your earlier paen exhaulting him), or if Beane upgrades next season.

 

Here's the thing: all of our players make mistakes.

 

Josh has been the King of Mistakes at times this season, throwing 2 INTs per game for 3 successive games,  2 of which we lost.  He threw 2 4Q picks vs the Packers which would have given a better team a chance to get back in it one on the GB 3 yard line.  On that play, McKenzie had his DB boxed on the R goal line and Josh could have placed a ball where it would be McKenzie, or No One instead of trying to force it to Gabe.  Made it a 24-17 game with more than 6 minutes less, how often have we seen Rodgers pull those out of his hat?  Josh threw a 3Q pick deep in Bills territory, to a place where Davis wasn't, that gave the Jets the lead 17-14 and they never gave it back.  Josh threw a 4Q and an EZ pick in the RZ vs Minnesota. 

 

I don't say this to dunk on Josh, whom I love - but these are mistakes I remember because they directly and credibly impacted the outcome of the game in 2 of our 3 losses.  Without them, we would arguably be 11-1 and headed for home field and a bye, not 9-3 and spinning the Prayer Wheel today for the Bengals to bail us out.  And maybe if Josh targeted Knox or McKenzie more, both of whom are often open as outlets underneath (or just threw it away), there would be better outcomes, not worse.

 

Meanwhile, folks like you who call yourself "fans" feel entitled to flap your lips and dunk on the guy, and paint anyone who points out the unreasonableness of your claims as some kind of blind homer.  I'll make you the same challenge that I made Alphadog7 with his "made mistakes on his routes many times that cost us".  If there are so many route running mistakes that cost us, surely they should be memorable enough for him to point a few of those route running mistakes out.   Same to you.

 

McK has a 70% catch % on 35 receptions, 5 TD, 25 1D.  Does he have the production we all hoped for from the slot position? No.  Has he made mistakes? Yes.  I can think of about 4.  But if there are "more poor plays than good", surely an observant Bills fan such as yourself should be able to recall and point, oh, 30 or so of them out?

 

You're coming across as a blind hater on a guy who, whatever his shortcomings may be, has contributed this season.  The fact that you paint someone who can merely acknowledge good contributions as some kind of uber McKenzie homer seems to clinch that.

 

SMDH.

[SCBills]

I think McKenzie has been solid the past two weeks. 
 

Hopefully that continues, and perhaps even grows as the season progresses down the stretch. 
 

That said, if we don’t land OBJ, I’d absolutely reach out to Beasley to gauge interest. 
 

Like John Brown, maybe he doesn’t have a ton left, but we only need (now) 5 more games and the postseason out of them. 
 

Like John Brown, he already has built in chemistry with Allen. 
 

If he’s willing to sign a cheap contract and stay off Twitter.. welcome back. 

[Solomon Grundy]

Why won't they just use Kumerow in the slot? He's a bigger body with a bigger catch radius. 

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

3 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why won't they just use Kumerow in the slot? He's a bigger body with a bigger catch radius. 

He’s hurt and he’s not good. I don’t think big body slot WRs is what we want in there anyway. I think it’s subtle move quickness that you either have or you don’t. It’s not speed, it’s quick moves in short distance, knowing where the soft spots are and above all else catching the ball. Beasley was great at that. I’m not concerned about the run after catch. I’ll take the catching the ball after the sticks and moving the chains. I’d love to see him get another shot here. Especially if we get a ring because he was a big part of this thing changing.

[Don Otreply]

On 12/2/2022 at 9:22 AM, Eastport bills said:

Unfortunately the 2021 mishandling of Beasley  effectively ended Cole’s career, and it’s a damn shame. Cole’s polarizing stance on  his personal medical autonomy ended his appeal for other franchises. He was injured and played through it last year and it affected his production. Josh loved him and trusted him and we weren’t able to replace him from within. Hopefully it doesn’t come back to haunt us.

While Beas was a valuable player while here, he also hosed himself, and the end result was of his own making.