wjag Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 20 minutes ago, MJS said: Really, we just need to get the defense healthy and all this stuff will fix itself. Given the slate of injuries this year, I have completely given up on the notion that "when the defense gets healthy". The defense will never be healthy IMO. It's just the way of this season. Without sounding too fatalistic, it's Taron Johnson and Shaq Lawson's turn to miss games. Every week is someone new. Next man up or as this season has gone, next men down.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColoradoBills Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 minutes ago, wjag said: Given the slate of injuries this year, I have completely given up on the notion that "when the defense gets healthy". The defense will never be healthy IMO. It's just the way of this season. Without sounding too fatalistic, it's Taron Johnson and Shaq Lawson's turn to miss games. Every week is someone new. Next man up or as this season has gone, next men down.. I know it's been that way, but it doesn't mean it has to continue. The 10-day break after tomorrow could be just what some of them need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Not surprised at all that he has been struggling. It is a result of the injuries. He is at his best as the slot cb in zone coverage. Being able to face up at times. Hopefully if Elam develops and Tre gets back to speed he will be able to go back to his usual role, which he is quite good at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 29 minutes ago, MJS said: It is all just a trickle down effect of the injuries. Tre White was out, which made Dane Jackson our #1. Hyde and Poyer have been out/hurt, which puts more backups on the field. Elam and Benford have been hurt, forcing even more backups on the field. Edmunds and Milano have taken turns missing games, putting more backups and more stress on the passing defense. And pass rushers have been hurt, which puts even more stress because the secondary has to cover for longer. This leads to the coaches trying to scheme differently to cover all the new player deficiencies and also the backups are not capable of doing all the things the starters are, and that eventually trickles down to Johnson having to account for a lot more and is asked to do a lot more, such as more man coverage and less help from the linebackers and safeties. Even one injury to a starter has a trickle down effect on all the other positions. If half the starters are out, that ripple effect is compounded each time. You can only do so much to cover it up. Backups are backups for a reason. Good depth is nice, nut not when half of your defensive depth is now asked to start. Really, we just need to get the defense healthy and all this stuff will fix itself. Exactly what I was going to say. Fans tend to think of injuries/depth as a simple 1-player swap out. For instance, Dane Jackson stepping into a starting role with Tre White injured. Or Damar Hamlin stepping into the Free Safety role when Micah Hyde went down. But they don't always account for the domino effect it causes on everyone else, especially when coaches need to shift gameplans to cover-up the new weak points. Hamlin has done an admirable job of filling-in since Week 2. But he clearly isn't the caliber player as Hyde (at least not yet), who was an All-Pro in 2021. Which is forcing Taron Johnson to step outside his own comfort zone. 19 minutes ago, wjag said: Given the slate of injuries this year, I have completely given up on the notion that "when the defense gets healthy". The defense will never be healthy IMO. It's just the way of this season. Without sounding too fatalistic, it's Taron Johnson and Shaq Lawson's turn to miss games. Every week is someone new. Next man up or as this season has gone, next men down.. That's definitely how it feels. I've said the same thing. Hope we are wrong. The Bills are supposed to have everyone (on defense) back tomorrow night, except Von Miller and Micah Hyde. Miller said he may be back for the Jets game, and there seems to be growing optimism that Hyde will return by playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Water Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 4 hours ago, Bruffalo said: I've gotten a lot of flak for saying this. In this week's game thread someone was trying to argue with me that Johnson has been our best secondary player. He's been bad and a lot of fans don't want to admit it. He's been bad at some aspects of playing slot corner (pass coverage man to man) and good at others (run D, zone). Everything is more nuanced and mixed than some fans want to make it out to be. The other point is: Leslie Frazier at one point explained how the Bills expect Milano, Edmunds, and Taron Johnson to act in concert. Neither Dodson nor Klein are a full replacement for what Edmunds does, and it makes Milano and Johnson's jobs harder. Milano is less affected because he's playing at an unreal level, but it's hurt Johnson. I think the lack of practice in recent weeks had a big impact on the Bills secondary. I think one reason we've played man (beyond wanting to rush 5 more to get some pressure without Rousseau and Epenesa and then Miller) is that it's an easier defense to apply to a new opponent and their receivers/routes vs the intricate read/react and pass-offs of an effective zone. Hopefully we got back on track this week, though having practically the whole secondary miss practice on Sunday and 3 of them still out Monday is not great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruffalo Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 5 minutes ago, Beck Water said: He's been bad at some aspects of playing slot corner (pass coverage man to man) and good at others (run D, zone) You're right to point this out. He has been very good at run defense and he's definitely better in zone coverage. I understand it's asking a lot, but I want to see more from him in that man coverage given the contract he received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FilthyBeast Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 7 hours ago, Big Turk said: Taron Johnson has been getting beat a lot more than usual this year it seems. Cover1 has a pretty good breakdown as to why. Bills are asking him to play more man coverage this year and he has been struggling with it at times, especially on slot fades to the outside where he gets out-leveraged many times. However, he has still been very good on run plays and in zone defense, being credited with 12 stops and has been very good at tracking the ball carrier and making plays on them in space. Bills pass D in general seems to be struggling and it seems Frazier has been trying different things to try and get it fixed, but so far nothing has helped. Leaving Johnson in man coverage more often doesn't seem to be the answer from this. Makes sense because outside of Jackson, Johnson has been a major liability on the field. The only play of note he's made all year was the game clinching INT in KC. If you truly fancy yourself a team built to defend the pass you need much better play from your slot corner/extra DB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 1 hour ago, wjag said: Given the slate of injuries this year, I have completely given up on the notion that "when the defense gets healthy". The defense will never be healthy IMO. It's just the way of this season. Without sounding too fatalistic, it's Taron Johnson and Shaq Lawson's turn to miss games. Every week is someone new. Next man up or as this season has gone, next men down.. I agree....we're not gaining any ground. Every time we get a couple guys back, we lose 2. We can't establish any tempo or continuity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 hours ago, wjag said: Given the slate of injuries this year, I have completely given up on the notion that "when the defense gets healthy". The defense will never be healthy IMO. It's just the way of this season. Without sounding too fatalistic, it's Taron Johnson and Shaq Lawson's turn to miss games. Every week is someone new. Next man up or as this season has gone, next men down.. Well, you never know. New injuries can and do happen. Just have to see how it goes. But it is also possible they can get healthy. 2 hours ago, mjt328 said: That's definitely how it feels. I've said the same thing. Hope we are wrong. The Bills are supposed to have everyone (on defense) back tomorrow night, except Von Miller and Micah Hyde. Miller said he may be back for the Jets game, and there seems to be growing optimism that Hyde will return by playoff time. Strange that we are to the point with injuries that we are EXCITED to only have Hyde and Miller out. The last couple of years we would have been really nervous if we were missing two players on defense of that caliber. This year it is the healthiest we have been for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 3 hours ago, wjag said: Given the slate of injuries this year, I have completely given up on the notion that "when the defense gets healthy". The defense will never be healthy IMO. It's just the way of this season. Without sounding too fatalistic, it's Taron Johnson and Shaq Lawson's turn to miss games. Every week is someone new. Next man up or as this season has gone, next men down.. Well when Hyde went down I knew that alone would be a major loss that would hurt the defense. I recall some posters saying it wouldn't be much of a drop off from Hyde to Hamlin/Johnson, which ever it was. Was baffling to me how many there was that actually believed that. Hyde being one of the best S, if not the best in the NFL, when losing a player of that magnitude common sense should tell you it's going to be a pretty major drop off. There's no back up on the roster that can make up for what Hyde does in this defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 (edited) Low key Johnson has been as big or bigger a problem than Jackson imo. Big if. If tre is healthy I could see Buffalo putting White in the slot depending on matchup. I think Elam and Benford this offseason brings Tyron Johnson in question. Edited November 30, 2022 by Mat68 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Low key Johnson has been as big or bigger a problem than Jackson imo. Big if. If tre is healthy I could see Buffalo putting White in the slot depending on matchup. I think Elam and Benford this offseason brings Tyron Johnson in question. To specify not saying permanent move to nickle for white. Put White in the the slot vs Kelce and top slot guys. No more 90 plus snap counts for Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mat68 said: Low key Johnson has been as big or bigger a problem than Jackson imo. Big if. If this healthy I could see Buffalo putting White in the slot depending on matchup. I think Elam and Benford this offseason brings Tyron Johnson in question. While Johnson has been beat a bit more than usual, he has also made some good plays mixed in with that. That being said, I can't see how anyone can seriously say Johnson has been struggling the same or worse as Jackson has right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 6 minutes ago, Mat68 said: To specify not saying permanent move to nickle for white. Put White in the the slot vs Kelce and top slot guys. No more 90 plus snap counts for Johnson. Isn’t White bad at run support though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 Just now, Arkady Renko said: Isn’t White bad at run support though? No. He wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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