Criticism of McD and coaching has reached insanity level…

[Southern_Bills]

We are 8-3 with a pile of injuries, yet most here would make you think we are 3-8.

 

The team will either step up in the playoffs or go home. It's really that simple, IMO they will.

[The Red King]

1 minute ago, Beast said:

No. All they can do is recover the ball. No advancement unless a player from the receiving team attempts a return and it is jarred loose. The kicking team can then return the fumble. But until control is established by the receiving team, all the kicking team is allowed to do is recover the ball.

 

Gotcha, thank you.  Wouldn't have been as bad, but still a bad choice by McD.

[The Red King]

10 minutes ago, Southern_Bills said:

We are 8-3 with a pile of injuries, yet most here would make you think we are 3-8.

 

The team will either step up in the playoffs or go home. It's really that simple, IMO they will.

 

We are 2-2 our last four games.  In those games our point differential is just +4.  Josh has thrown an alarming number of red-zone ints.

 

At the moment the wheels are coming off the bus.  It falls on the coaching staff to right the ship.

 

If we were 8-3 while looking good with an odd loss here or there people wouldn't be as worried.  This is now the fourth straight game they have not looked right.

 

Case in point, look how Pitt. started two years ago (11-0 I think?).  Then the team fell into a slump at the end of the season and got crushed by the Browns for a one-and-done in the playoffs.

Edited November 26, 2022 by The Red King

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

I thought they could if it hit a member of the recieving team first.  Regardless, putting Davis on the hands team was a clear mistake.

 

I'm not saying the coaching staff is terrible and should be fired.  Just saying there are some points of real concern at this point.

 

The receiving team actually has to possess it first; contact with the ball isn't enough to override the no advancement rule.

[Southern_Bills]

1 minute ago, The Red King said:

 

We are 2-2 our last four games.  In those games our point differential is just +4.  Josh has thrown an alarming number of red-zone ints.

 

At the moment the wheels are coming off the bus.  It falls on the coaching staff to right the ship.

 

If we were 8-3 while looking good with an odd loss here or there people wouldn't be as worried.  This is now the fourth straight game they have not looked right.

 

Yeah, and the circumstances around the last 2 games were horrible. 

 

The Jets loss was probably the worst.

 

BTW, we are 2-0 in our last 2 games gutting it out through injuries. The way you write things and cherry pick stats make a huge difference. 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

OP feels he's entitled to specifics after how last season ended?

 

Before that, I would constantly point out very specific in-game mistakes made by McDermott. At this point I feel like we just have to see how he does in the playoffs again. Just like I and many others felt at this point last year. 

[Yobogoya!]

Not for nothing but after the 13 seconds snaffu the coaches were always going to be under extra scrutiny this year. With all the off-season hype about how deep and talented this team is, that was only going to be magnified even more so. 
 

I do think the coaches on this team are good, but the talent is elite.
 

The frustration comes becomes our main competition - the Chiefs - have elite talent AND elite coaching, and so they simply make far fewer mistakes on a week to week basis. They are firmly in the driver’s seat for the #1 seed again as a result. 
 

Is it wrong to complain because we have dynasty-level talent but have coaching who aren’t able to maximize that potential? I mean there’s nothing that’s written that we still can’t win the Super Bowl this year but I think frustration with falling behind the Chiefs again is more than valid this year. 

[Reks Ryan]

17 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

Has their time as coaches here been super successful ?. . . . . . . . . . . . . oh yes.

 

 

Have they made several errors the last three weeks ?  . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . yes.

 

 

As fans we are "allowed" to point them out.

 

 

 

The general "you people are crazy"  defense doesn't work on adults.

 

 

.

There's a difference between fans criticisizing when they think coaches make mistakes, and calling for Frazier, McDermott, etc to be fired.   There have been some over the top anti-coaching takes on this forum in recent weeks.

 

Could you imagine if the  D coordinator, not mention the HC, was fired from an 8 - 3 team.   Look at it from an opposing team point of view.  Miami and New England fans would be thrilled if the Bills started firing coaches. 

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, The Red King said:

Case in point, look how Pitt. started two years ago (11-0 I think?)

 

This is not even remotely close to a case in point.

The Stillers spent 11 weeks playing the absolute worst dregs of the league until their schedule finally normalized late in the season while the Bills have been playing one fo the toughest schedules in the NFL so far.

[Epstein's Mother]

30 minutes ago, The Red King said:

 

You are completely, 100% fine with the decision to put Davis on the hands team when it almost cost us the game?

 

I'm 100% fine with not talking about things that ALMOST happened.

[JerseyBills]

Very well said op

 

I actually like the adversity and the fact we're not blowing out teams still. I think it'll be a blessing in disguise come January. 

Shoot it wasn't even a week ago ppl were questioning if we'd even make the playoffs 🤣

[PrimeTime101]

3 hours ago, eball said:

I know, I know, it’s a message board and not everyone has to agree about everything.  Debate and discussion are good.  It just seems to me that the coaching of this team is being questioned at an insane level.  The Bills are 8-3 and within 11 points of being undefeated.  Every starter on defense has missed time; they have not played ONE game with their presumed starting secondary intact.  Allen has a bum elbow.  They got a total of TWO full practices in over the past two weeks and yet won two games in five days.

 

They beat the Rams on the road (before we knew the Rams would stink).  They crushed the Titans.  They won at Baltimore in a gritty way.  They won at KC.

 

What the hell do people think McD should have been doing that he has not?  I still hear “well, he’s not a good gameday coach.”  Really?  He is ranked as one of the best 4th down decision makers in the league.  His time management has been stellar, saving timeouts for use at the ends of halves where the Bills have been excellent.

 

Should he be calling plays?  Is it Dorsey everyone is really upset about?  Well, Dorse is also learning on the job, and maybe I’m naive but I think it has been hard to gameplan the past two weeks with only two practices.  And yet, the offense is still putting up yards and points at very high levels.  The last couple of weeks the running game has showed up as well.

 

Summing up — I don’t get it.  At all.  And as far as I know, not one of you is in the locker room or on the practice field with this team.  My conclusion is that there are a lot of keyboard warriors with way too much time on their hands who expect 14-point wins weekly.  I would love to hear, specifically, what decisions some believe McD has made or not made that are responsible for the “predicament” we find ourselves in (tied for 1st).

 

I’m going to continue to enjoy this ride, knowing my team is one of the best in the league and still has every opportunity to bring home the ultimate prize.  I’m thrilled McD is our HC and Beane is our GM.

 

Go Bills!  17 and 3, BABY!!!!

 

@eball I normally agree with 99.99% of your bigger posts, BUT.. I think your missing what part of this coaching staff people are complaining about. 

 

OC is a huge complaint of mine, not McD. BUT that being said McD hired Dorsey so when Dorsey fails us, the buck drops on the HC. Many of us thought that Dorsey would pick up where Daboll left us. Same concept game planning and same concept play calling but that has not been the case. This is Dorsey's offense 1000%. I see some say, "we should have made Daboll HC" and i call that talk insane. That being said MAYBE "JA Buddy" was not the right choice for a SB ready team, I mean were many of you prepared for the growing pains we would have to go through with Dorsey? 

 

DC Frazier gets into cold streaks. Just because we had a top-notch front 4 does not mean we should not blitz against the right QB's. Example Wilson and Tua. It takes Frazier to long to realize he has to dial up the pressure packages at times... and ESPECIALLY concerning our DC, that falls on a defensive HC to fix in real time. not after the fact.

 

So, when you have games where you question both sides of the ball? bottom line? who's fault is it? What frustrates me most of these boards is people not taking in consideration the injuries... People say well that team has a huge number of players out, but they don't get it. It's not just about how many are injured but it's the WHO is injured.

 

Bottom line its not just OC or DC that has failed us during these games....  Injuries, players not playing to their potential, OMG the dropped balls, the stupid penalties!

Oh and by the way? we have a dude named JA that makes many of those 4ths down decisions look better.

 

and bottom line, like it or not, the buck stops with someone on this team and that buck is named McD.

 

ALL OF THIS BEING SAID! McD has been doing the best job possible with the cards handed to them. When you're in 110-degree heat, trying to decide if you want to play those aces? think twice when the calm cool and collected dude has quads.

[LABILLBACKER]

24 minutes ago, Rock-A-Bye Beasley said:

OP feels he's entitled to specifics after how last season ended?

 

Before that, I would constantly point out very specific in-game mistakes made by McDermott. At this point I feel like we just have to see how he does in the playoffs again. Just like I and many others felt at this point last year. 

McDermott's legacy will be determined by how he does in the playoffs.  Just like Shottenheimer.  This team regardless of injuries and in game coaching has way too much talent to miss the playoffs every year. But when the playoffs start and the level of play increases,  that's when you see the truth.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

OC is a problem yet the Bills have #2 scoring team and #1 or #2 yardage offense in the league?

 

our offense would be even better too if Allen wasn’t going though this mid season lull. I can’t put Allen’s interceptions on the OC. The lack of scoring in the second half in general is concerning though and probably more on Dorsey. But also on Allen. The two INTs in the Green Bay game for example were 100% on Allen and not Dorsey and cost the Bills second half points.

[hondo in seattle]

The current level of play is concerning: we've lost 2 of the past 4.   The O is off.   The D is off.

 

But we're 8-3 despite dealing with injuries to several key players.    If we get healthy before the playoffs, we'll make a run.

 

[The Red King]

36 minutes ago, Epstein's Mother said:

 

I'm 100% fine with not talking about things that ALMOST happened.

 

Davis had the ball hit him.  He didn't catch it.  The ball was free.  So...that did happen.   It was a (coaching) mistake to put him out there.

 

You also ducked the question.  Let me make it easier.  Do you think McD made a mistake putting a guy that regularly drops the ball out on his hands-team.  Yes or no.  You even get the benefit of hindsight on this one.

Edited November 26, 2022 by The Red King

[newcam2012]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I was not commenting on the coaching, just how these type of threads are posted to elicit positive response.  I think coaching has been so so.....  I am unhappy with the defensive play calling and some decisions.  Let's leave it at that.

 

But the Bills are 8-3.  NE will be a big test.  No excuse to lose vs. them.

Are the Bills are winning despite their coaching?

 

I will address the question. I'll be more specific about the coaching.

 

Dorsey is clearly learning on the job. Do you give him a pass because it's his first year? Numerous times he has abandoned the run game. He has failed to reign in Josh Allen in regards to his turnovers. Daboll was able to call safe plays to dail back Allen . Dorsey just hasn't put Allen in the best positions to succeed.  This is week 12 and I really struggle to find the identity of this team? This offense struggled to beat a Browns and Lions team. Both defenses are terrible and in the bottom of the league. Sure circumstance were extraordinary which includes injuries. Bottom line is the team won. I totally get that. Yes the organization including players and coaches deserves credit. However, that doesn't mean that they aren't subject to criticism. Right? To prove my point, can you comment on Dane Jackson's play?  If you haven't noticed he is getting exposed game after game. Dorsey has been mediocre at best. 

 

On to Leslie Fraizer. He clearly has a very tough task with all the injuries. The defense is a shell of itself. Truthfully, he hasn't had a healthy defense since game one or two. I believe he sticks to his scheme to a fault. That's knit picking for sure. I give him credit for selling out to stop Chubb and he actually dialed up key 4th quarter blitzes vs Geoff. Two props to him. Geoff wasnt good enough to make the Bills pay. He missed open WRs. Under the circumstances, I think Fraizer has done a really good job. 

 

On to coach McD. I'm not one to question the guy's character or heart. He's a Buffalo mold type of guy. I've really really liked him for a longgggg time. However, the 13 second disaster has dramatically changed my mindset. I'm stubborn, old, and hold onto blame far too long. Fast forward to this season and I have mixed feelings. I have failed to see many great in game adjustments and halftime adjustments. Was McD close to losing the team? That Diggs interaction was really a testimony to both Diggs' and Coach McD's character and professionalism.  However, it seems as though he has fallen short and been out coached in many games. Once again, winning cures everything. When a team is 8-3 it's a very difficult to criticize coaches. Add in injuries and the extraordinary circumstances and it becomes even more difficult. It's ludicrous to call for anyone's head. McD has built a culture and still knows how to motivate the players. That McD post game Lions speech choked me up. It reminded me of why I like Coach McD so much. 

 

In summary, this is a crazy season in which injuries have been the Bills main enemy. It reared its ugly head again with Von. The team, coaches, and players have been tested like no other season. The fans expectations rival that of the Bills team of the 90s. Reflecting and seeing my expectations were too high. I totally thought the Bills had a direct and slightly easy path to the Super Bowl. Assumed the team would be relatively healthy like the last couple of years. As a frustrated fan at times it's easy to blame the coaches. Sometimes it's easy to call for change. Bottom line is the Bills coaches are very very good. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Of course not.  It is insanity to make statements like “we’ll never win a SB with McD” and “Pegula needs to start looking for a new coach.”  Both have been bandied about regularly on this forum.

 

I also continue to ask the question of what McD has done or not done to evoke such rabid criticism.  People say “no halftime adjustments” but that is both a cop-out and obviously not true.  The adjustments just haven’t been working as well lately — likely for a number of reasons, most of which we as casual fans are not privy to.

 

Give me specifics if you are going to criticize.  Show me how the players are giving up, or obviously out of position, or making boatloads of mental mistakes — all of which would point directly to coaching.

 

 

 

 

I agree with you, criticism should be productive and specific, not knee jerk. Unfortunately frustration & emotion often shows during/after games.

 

But there are some good specific questions getting asked based on what some experts have pointed out. Like as Sal Cappacio / Joe Bascaglia mentioned with Dane Jacksons struggles what is the reason he hasn't been replaced, is it injuries or do they think he's better than Elam, Benford, or even Rhodes? (there may be several reasons). Or as Greg Cosell pointed out Dorsey doesn't run a lot of bunch formations with rubs and picks to help scheme receivers open, instead relying on them to win 1 on 1, which only Diggs has consistently been able to do, so does he need to make changes to incorporate more of this as he adjusts as a 1st year play caller? (again there may be a counter point to that).

 

Those discussions are worth having. But again I agree with you just saying fire everyone (even though the thought might cross everyone's mind in a moment of panic when Detroit took the late lead), doesn't really advance our understanding of what problems they're really having. 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

I was speaking specifically to the 2021 Ravens, Scott. The post I quoted brought up the 2021 ravens.
 

And Allen’s arm was fine when he threw 4 interceptions including two red zone INTs just prior to his elbow injury. And his arm has looked lively as ever post injury so I have a hard time putting his recent struggles all on the elbow injury. 
 

Even with Allen and the offensive woes we currently have we should thank our lucky stars he is still taking the field every Sunday. If he wears not our season would quickly go down the drain like the Ravens 2021 season without Lamar.

 

My point is that the 2021 Ravens with Lamar wasnt any better than the Bills are today.  People freak out over ugly wins and Im not exactly happy with the ugly but the team is finding ways to win.  All teams have ugly wins.  

 

You are correct.  About Josh's arm was fine when he threw those ints.  His arm is not fine now.  Probably it is getting better though.  At least I hope it is.  Allens a tough guy and a gamer.  Wouldnt trade him for anyone else.  

 

Agree.  This team is done without Allen.

[Billsfan1972]

4 hours ago, eball said:

 

Of course not.  It is insanity to make statements like “we’ll never win a SB with McD” and “Pegula needs to start looking for a new coach.”  Both have been bandied about regularly on this forum.

 

I also continue to ask the question of what McD has done or not done to evoke such rabid criticism.  People say “no halftime adjustments” but that is both a cop-out and obviously not true.  The adjustments just haven’t been working as well lately — likely for a number of reasons, most of which we as casual fans are not privy to.

 

Give me specifics if you are going to criticize.  Show me how the players are giving up, or obviously out of position, or making boatloads of mental mistakes — all of which would point directly to coaching.

 

 

 

The Bills have been badly out coached the second half since the bye week.  The offense has/should have the talent to overcome it and the defense has been suspect.  Sure they make adjustments,  however the opposing teams make better ones.  

 

Again we all want the Bills to win and we can all agree that early in the season many were predicting a magical season and right now there is doubt.

 

NE sorry should not be a scary game, but now is.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Billsfan1972