Why has tackling become a struggle?

[BillsfaninChicago]

Go back and watch some of those drought era games when Brady would decimate us with basic screen passes. They made this squad look like the Steel Curtain. Better yet maybe don’t watch it lol.

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

when will we run out of things to criticize about an 8-3 team gutting out wins with half its starting defense, half its oline and its possession receiver out? 

I think it comes with the territory when Las Vegas annoits you as Super Bowl favorites and you start the season thumping the Super Bowl winners and then dismantling the #1 seed from the AFC.

[JoshAllin]

Didn't notice much missed tackling besides maybe 2-3 just a lot of wide open fields. Looked like the defenders tried to wrap up the feet and missed

[Coach Tuesday]

Hamlin was the biggest offender on Thursday and he’s generally been pretty solid - but he was looking like Jaquan out there whiffing on his tackles.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

As much as Leslie Frasier has been criticized for play calling on defense, I think our biggest issue is YAC - we seem to be missing a disproportionate number of tackles players this year. Is it a case of reserves struggling to execute? Players on offense knowing how we tackle so being able to skip round them? Players not being coached probably to wrap up and hold? It feels like we’re putting ourselves under additional pressure due to not being able to stop the YAC, and I cannot recall us being so porous missing so many players in previous years.

 

Fixed it for you!

 

Backups are backups for a reason.  Can you get by with one or two and still play well.  A team as good as the Bills should be able to and for the most part have.  But this past game, missing both DE, LB, FS, All pro CB played two series (not criticizing how he was used either)  Other weeks Milano was out, think twice.  Wasn't there one game earlier both Milano and Edmunds were out.  Oliver missed was it two weeks early?  Right now though, think the biggest loss is Edmunds as with his size, really shuts down passing lanes.

 

On offense missing 2 OL, plus a QB with lingering effects from an elbow injury.  Brown, Knox, and Davis have missed a couple of prior games each I believe too.  Think the only position group on the  entire team not having had injuries in the RB group??

[Eastport bills]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

As much as Leslie Frasier has been criticised for play calling on defense, I think our biggest issue is YAC - we seem to be missing a disproportionate number of tackles this year. Is it a case of reserves struggling to execute? Players on offense knowing how we tackle so being able to skip round them? Players not being coached probably to wrap up and hold? It feels like we’re putting ourselves under additional pressure due to not being able to stop the YAC, and I cannot recall us being so porous in previous years.

Frazier and Sean are not coaching up young, inexperienced dbs to wrap up and bring fundamentals and physicality to tackling. These guys are trying to strip and grab and teams like Detroit and the Jets ran for big numbers. Good tackling is a mentality and other than Johnson, White and Elam our secondary is not there yet. When Milano or Edmunds are not on the field, we struggle in the run game.

[Alphadawg7]

Injuries.

[MarkyMannn]

If you watch enough games, missing tackles is like a league wide thing. Skill O guys so fast & quick & elusive now, it's Really hard to tackle them one-on-one in open field

[John from Riverside]

Just now, MarkyMannn said:

If you watch enough games, missing tackles is like a league wide thing. Skill O guys so fast & quick & elusive now, it's Really hard to tackle them one-on-one in open field

I think it’s a combination of this and players being just out of position I have been singing, Hamlinz praises, and he has been playing well however, I watched him try to make a leaping tackle in this last game, where if he would’ve been in the correct position he would’ve been there to make the tackle instead of trying to take a swipe at it

[Ta111]

This thread reminds me of a preseason game between the Bills and Vikings in the early 70’s. OJ had just put a move on middle linebacker Wally Hilgenberg for a big gain. When Hilgenberg came to the sideline, Vikings coach, Bud Grant layed into Hilgenberg and said they were paying him 250k per year to make that tackle (remember this was the early 70’s). Without missing a beat, Hilgenberg responded “but coach they’re paying OJ 650k to make me miss”.

moral is the other guys get paid too.

[RiotAct]

I agree @UKBillFan - it’s like every team has their version of Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill when they play us, as far as “shiftiness” and YAC are concerned.

[John from Riverside]

4 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

I agree @UKBillFan - it’s like every team has their version of Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill when they play us, as far as “shiftiness” and YAC are concerned.

They do just some of them are better than others
 

I still say that these QBs are looking like all star is throwing over the middle lmat us because they don’t have edmunds out there playing centerfield. He has really shown in the games that he has been out that he deserves his contract.

Edited November 26, 2022 by John from Riverside

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

They don't tackle at all in practice. It forms bad habits for when they actually do need to get the guy on the ground. Although every team is in the same position so I don't know if it's a league-wide problem or just our team but I can imagine other fanbases feel the same way about their team too

Tackling is a skill, and certain guys are excellent at it.

Others are not.  I would suggest we are NOT making player selections based on being sure handed tacklers.

 

Rather, we are going for speed and ability to pass protect like DBs.

 

I think that has something to do with it.

 

Look at Milano--he is a classic tackling LB (with great speed!) but he very very rarely misses a tackle.

 

They obviously don't prioritize this trait when picking guys.

 

 

[saundena]

The Bills have't been great at tackling during the ENTIRE McBeane era.  Joe Marino did a piece on this on one of his podcasts last week.  They started out well this year, with missed tackles way below league / historical averages- now they're back to being among the worst in the league.

[T master]

3 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

 Is it a case of reserves struggling to execute?

 

I think we have a winner a lot of the starters are out and the back ups are in could be the reason they are back ups .

 

I feel if the Bills had all of their starters on the field this season they may have 2 more wins the people missing or hurt are very important pieces to this defense & it has showed in some games but hopefully some of them will be healthy for a deep run in the play offs .

Edited November 26, 2022 by T master

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

sort of wonder if there are advanced stats out there on missed tackles. Not doubting you, but I haven’t gotten the same impression as you (ie, that this is a problem).  
 

I also don’t think YAC always correlates to missed tackles. Sometimes it is due to bad coverage, or being out of coverage position. 

Joe Marino of Locked on Bills speaks often about missed tackle percentages and the Bills were excellent the first few weeks, then regressed back to bad again. The Bills have had one of the higher rates lf missed tackles the past few years.

 

As far as individual players, basically all of the defenders have a poor rate except Tremaine Edmunds. He was the only one below 10%, unless something changed the past couple of weeks. Milano has always had a pretty high rate of missed tackles.

 

I don't have the numbers myself, or I would post them. But it is a stat that is tracked and can be found.

10 minutes ago, T master said:

 

I think we have a winner a lot of the starters are out and the back ups are in could be the reason they are back ups .

 

I feel if the Bills had all of their starters on the field this season they may have 2 more wins the people missing or hurt are very important pieces to this defense & it has showed in some games but hopefully some of them will be healthy for a deep run in the play offs .

The Bills under Sean McDermott have always had a poor tackling defense (despite being so strong in other areas). All the starters have poor tackle rates as well. I'm not sure why. I don't think it is as simple as saying it is all on coaching. I know McDermott hammers and practices fundamentals. It just might be one of those things where most of our defensive players happen to have the same weakness. Could be an inherent flaw in the scheme. Not sure.

[mrags]

This has always been an issue with Fraziers defenses. Tackling liability defenses. 

[Southern_Bills]

3 hours ago, GolfandBills said:

Bills have always been one of the worst tackling teams under McDermott 

 

Is there a stat for that? Not really saying you are wrong, just they keep everything in front of them and make tackles, that's the defensive philosophy and their defensive rank is high.

 

Seems if this was true it would look alot worse than it does.

[947]

A lot of it is technique. I see a ton of upper body tackling, especially when tackling a guy from behind.

 

If you tackle a guy by the thighs, or even ankle, from behind, he drops instantly. If you grab him around the shoulders or waist, he drags you for another 2-3 yards, or just runs through it.

[nosejob]

4 hours ago, Lothar said:

We have always been one of the worst tackling teams in the McBeane tenure. It might be the type of linebackers we get or the emphasis we place on scheme and coverage over basics like sound tackling. It's usually hard to find fault with a defense that has been among the top 5 but that is definitely a thing and since the first 2 games this year, it had become a team wide phenomenon.

 

Joe Marino listed the percent missed tackles of every player - he said we should average about 10-12%. Some like Epenesa are over 50% and most of the team is well over that threshold. 

 

 

It is because of the refusal to be able to play a defense other than nickel. Teams with a decent OL and power back will run over the nickel corner all day long. I had hoped we learned that lesson from last year. Giving up over 150....let alone 200 plus on the ground should put somebody on thin ice.

 

You couldn't find 2 more opposite games then us vs. Pats last year.  The 3 pass game and the playoff game. This upcoming game will tell everyone everything about this coaching staff.