Week 13: Bills at Pats on TNF

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

James Cook for me. He flashes potential here and there but I'm not excited to see him playing a significant role now on a team fighting to win a championship. He's too easy to bring down, for one. Bulk up in the offseason and apply what he's learned and try again next year. I trust Hines more and at this point in time he brings more to the table.

 

OK, fair enough, you have a reasonable, thought-out answer. 

 

And yet, Cook has 369 yds/scrimmage (4th on the team of players not named Allen) and 6.7 yds/touch; that's better than Hines managed in his 2 best years 2018 and 2020.  Cook has better yds/rush than Singletary at 5.6 vs 4.5 (which may reflect when and how he's used), and again, better than Hynes with Indy this year (4.9) or in Hines best years.

 

I think Hines, to fans, is the "new shiny" "greener grass" who just has to be better than what we've got - doesn't he?  Well, maybe.  Or maybe not. 

 

Personally, I think Beane traded for Hines for exactly the role he's filling: 1) take over at KR/PR, improving the return game and freeing Shakir to focus on becoming the best receiver he can be this season. 2) learn the offense and be ready to fill in at RB or in the slot/as the gadget guy if (avert) injuries strike.

 

The Bills currently have the #2 offense in the league by most parameters - PPG, Y/G, plays/g, 1D/g - and the difference is slight - 2 PPG, 5 y/g, 3 pl/g.  #3 in y/pl and again difference is slight, 0.2/y per pl

 

Where the Bills stink most markedly is in turnovers per game - where we are tied for 30th in the league at 1.73/game.  This suggests to me that where the Bills need to raise their game is in the turnover arena, and largely in INT.  "Only Josh Allen can Beat the Bills". 

 

Now maybe part of that is more creative play design that schemes guys open more.  And maybe that involves Hines, or maybe it involves better use of the guys who've been here all along, grinding.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

OK, fair enough, you have a reasonable, thought-out answer. 

 

And yet, Cook has 369 yds/scrimmage (4th on the team of players not named Allen) and 6.7 yds/touch; that's better than Hines managed in his 2 best years 2018 and 2020.  Cook has better yds/rush than Singletary at 5.6 vs 4.5 (which may reflect when and how he's used), and again, better than Hynes with Indy this year (4.9) or in Hines best years.

 

I think Hines, to fans, is the "new shiny" "greener grass" who just has to be better than what we've got - doesn't he?  Well, maybe.  Or maybe not. 

 

Personally, I think Beane traded for Hines for exactly the role he's filling: 1) take over at KR/PR, improving the return game and freeing Shakir to focus on becoming the best receiver he can be this season. 2) learn the offense and be ready to fill in at RB or in the slot/as the gadget guy if (avert) injuries strike.

 

The Bills currently have the #2 offense in the league by most parameters - PPG, Y/G, plays/g, 1D/g - and the difference is slight - 2 PPG, 5 y/g, 3 pl/g.  #3 in y/pl and again difference is slight, 0.2/y per pl

 

Where the Bills stink most markedly is in turnovers per game - where we are tied for 30th in the league at 1.73/game.  This suggests to me that where the Bills need to raise their game is in the turnover arena, and largely in INT.  "Only Josh Allen can Beat the Bills". 

 

Now maybe part of that is more creative play design that schemes guys open more.  And maybe that involves Hines, or maybe it involves better use of the guys who've been here all along, grinding.

Dirsey definitely needs to be better, or they need to find a replacement 

[Rockinon]

55 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, Geesh.  Some kind of bug running through the locker room.  Yikes.

There were a bunch of guys sick last week too

[Playoffs?]

20 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Dirsey definitely needs to be better, or they need to find a replacement 

Dorsey just needs to figure out how and when to use the weapons he has. 

[Boatdrinks]

24 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

Dorsey just needs to figure out how and when to use the weapons he has. 

That’s what he’s charged with yes. There’s cause for concern as to whether he’s capable. After starting f fast out of the gate, he hasn’t broken tendencies and defenses have caught up. His red zone design has been suspect all season. 

[Success]

8 players not practicing due to illness - has anyone heard anything about that?  Flu?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

45 minutes ago, Playoffs? said:

Dorsey just needs to figure out how and when to use the weapons he has. 

I mean, he's had all off-season and 11 weeks to do so. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, Geesh.  Some kind of bug running through the locker room.  Yikes.

Again. This season is ridiculous.

[zow2]

Fyi- for the uniform crowd…i saw a video online of Patriots practice today and it looked like they were wearing white helmets with the old Patriots logo,

the guy hiking the football.

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

Fyi- for the uniform crowd…i saw a video online of Patriots practice today and it looked like they were wearing white helmets with the old Patriots logo,

the guy hiking the football.

Saw that posted upthread 

[RiotAct]

51 minutes ago, Success said:

8 players not practicing due to illness - has anyone heard anything about that?  Flu?

 

Black Plague.

[WideNine]

Last year Allen's confidence was soaring and Daboll was game planning.

 

Dorsey is going to have to up his game finding ways to get receivers free and Allen will need more options to get rid of the ball on time.

 

Wonder if we will see Smoke on the field and if so, does he fill that slot role that has been missing that veteran component?

 

There have not been many games lately where the Bills have dominated and I suspect this will not be an easy one either. 

 

Tough group though that has had to claw for so many wins and endure close gut-wrenching defeats.

 

We will see.

 

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

4 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Question: what exactly does "squandering the trade" mean to you? 

 

Again: the trade was an RB who the Bills weren't using much and a 6th round pick, for a pass catching RB with KR/PR chops who the Colts weren't using much. 

All 3 of our starting WR, our TE, and our starting RB had higher production per game than Hines at the time of the trade.  Only James Cook and Khalil Shakir on the active roster have fewer receiving yards, and most fans are clamoring for more use of Shakir and of Cook.

 

Hines has immediately made a contribution, taking over KR/PR duties and appearing solid at both.

 

What do you think was the Bills intent in making the trade and acquiring Hines?

Who do you want to see less of, so we can see more Hines? 

Who should get fewer practice reps, so Hines can get more?

All fair questions. I obviously can’t speak for the Bills. But given the buzz over and attempts at getting a pass-catching RB (eg, McKissick), I saw the Hines trade as more than just a ST specialist. 
 

I was expecting a guy who would basically be no less than a third round back, and would be catching at least 4-5 balls per game, and being mixed in with the other RB’s with a few Carries here and there.  That would be the floor on expectations. The ceiling would Be a guy who would essentially be our slot WR, with the versatility to move into the backfield. 
 

Some of my expectations were driven by  Hines’s contract. I guess the Bills could let him walk after this season, but if they aren’t, his contract justifies higher usage. 
 

[jkeerie]

Over the past two games the Bills have had only one day of regular practice.  That might account for Hines not being part of the game plan as well as the vanilla play calling.  Hopefully we'll see more in coming weeks.

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

All fair questions. I obviously can’t speak for the Bills. But given the buzz over and attempts at getting a pass-catching RB (eg, McKissick), I saw the Hines trade as more than just a ST specialist. 
 

I was expecting a guy who would basically be no less than a third round back, and would be catching at least 4-5 balls per game, and being mixed in with the other RB’s with a few Carries here and there.  That would be the floor on expectations. The ceiling would Be a guy who would essentially be our slot WR, with the versatility to move into the backfield. 
 

Some of my expectations were driven by  Hines’s contract. I guess the Bills could let him walk after this season, but if they aren’t, his contract justifies higher usage. 
 

 

Re: the contract, Hines is earning $1.83M salary this year.  Panthers gave Andre Roberts $1.75M 1 yr to return kickoffs and punts.  Previously the Bills were paying Roberts $2.3M per year as KR/PR.  So I think his current salary is right in line for a KR/PR

 

I’m sure the Bills would like him to be more than a ST guy, but I thought he came in with the expectation to lock down the KR/PR position, as a backup/ “pony” back with Cook, and potentially/hopefully as a backup at the slot position.

 

Hines is being mixed in for 6 snaps a game so far, and what happens on those snaps I’m sure will determine which way his usage trends.

 

I’ve totally not understood the fan expectation that Hines must be force-fed 10-12 touches a game right now or Beane/Dorsey are negligent or whatever it was, but to me Hines was a nice acquisition for depth and as a punt returner with Crowder being out so all the clamor has me puzzled.  Thanks for taking the time to give me a reasonable answer!

[Gunsgoodtime]

Its good to rather you like it or not

Zayed Jones  future HOF bills wr if all time

[Kenosha2Buffalo]

40 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Its good to rather you like it or not

Zayed Jones  future HOF bills wr if all time

 

Good post there buddy, you should pay for my stroke medicine because your beautiful use of the English language just gave me one.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, RiotAct said:

Black Plague.

I thought it was scurvy. The Bills have been running low on citrus.  No wait, rickets, no gout, no chronic halitosis.

 

All kidding aside, it was probably the flu.  Remember before COVID, the most common virus every flipping year.

 

Who cares?  We won and now it’s time to destroy this Opponent!  It’s time to make it 6 out of 7 times in 3 years.  In a few more weeks it will be 7 out of 8 times.

[Frez]

I have a feeling Buffalo shows up this Thursday night and plays a great game we have all been waiting for. 
 

Bills 23 Pats 17

[Playoffs?]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Again. This season is ridiculous.

It is absurd. The guys that aren’t injured are sick. You can’t make this up. 

19 minutes ago, Frez said:

I have a feeling Buffalo shows up this Thursday night and plays a great game we have all been waiting for. 
 

Bills 23 Pats 17

I feel ya… but if it’s the great game we’ve all been waiting for, would prefer 40-7, and maybe not another couch heart attack.