Coaching won us the game

[ALLEN1QB]

That is what they get paid for right?

[WyoAZBillfan]

5 hours ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

Teams aren't figuring the Bills out. JA is banged up clearly.  The D is built to expect points from the offense. Then we play nickel on pad plays. With our qb hurt we aren't playing Bills ball. But they haven't figured us out. 

A pass first team, hurt defense. Going back to the Green Bay game, I’d say teams have figured a way to keep Allen off the field and with him hurt, knowing the reluctance to run, the struggles have shown how to beat this team, jets followed up on what GB did and Minn capitalized. Figured out, maybe not, but they sure have found ways to slow down being steam rolled.

3 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

the things I described were all it if need.  You can’t be the same team when you have 70% backups.  My old dad keeps saying to me they get paid too.

 

my response is yep and a lot less for a reason.  Johnson and Hamlin are not Hyde and poyer.

Spot on 100%

[klos63]

7 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

More trickery and gadget plays needed; jet sweeps, occasional Wild Cat and maybe a few flea flickers. Daboll definitely schemed up more trickery. 

Most trick plays are offshoots of running plays. If you don't run well consistently, you will have trouble running trick plays. Nobody will fall for a flea flicker if we are passing most of the time, they're already expecting a pass.

[Dr.Sack]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

Most trick plays are offshoots of running plays. If you don't run well consistently, you will have trouble running trick plays. Nobody will fall for a flea flicker if we are passing most of the time, they're already expecting a pass.

I think Knox throws well with a broken hand.

[QCity]

15 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Coaching did win us this game.

 

Bad coaching on Campbell's part that is.

 

I could not believe Campbell's time management before the half. Romo and Nantz were rightly baffled as well. It was like they were trying to get us the ball back with as much time as possible. Thanks for those 3 points Dan, they came in handy.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I have zero issue with the offense. We are still scoring at an incredible rate and our QB has been hurt for 3 weeks. I have no issue with McDermott. Monday through Saturday he’s as good as there is and he took our franchise from a 20 year joke, to a super bowl favorite. The last 2 games were in very difficult circumstances and we won both. That’s something to be proud of. This team I loaded with talent and if we ever get out of our own way, there may be nobody that can beat us.

My issue lies with the Defense. That’s the biggest concern I have and it’s growing worse by the week. I have never liked Fraizer. I hate his approach to calling a game. I didn’t like it when he was in Minnesota and I don’t like it here. We have an incredibly talented defense. The best personnel in the NFL on defense IMO and when healthy I don’t think anyone is close. The players are why we have had any success. There is zero imagination to this defense. It’s incredibly simple and predictable. Every team will

tell you what we do is basic. We just have executed it at a very high level because our secondary has been an eraser. We never blitz, every accurate QB has all day to sit back and carve us up. We never come off nickel even when teams are making us stop the run. Every physical team imposes their will on us inside on the ground. We cant tackle, can’t get off the field on 3rd down. We can only take away the run when we focus all effort and then the pass defense is completely compromised. When we aren’t turning people over, we aren’t stopping them. This defense has been figured out and it’s broken. This is why we lost to KC and this is how our season will end this year…unless we fix it. McDermott is the coach but this is not his defense. It’s Leslie Fraizers. We need McDermott to take this defense over, call the plays and change the aggression. We should be setting the tone on defense and making teams uncomfortable. That’s not Fraizer. He’s a soft, fall back, bend but don’t break and hope the other team gets bored. That’s not going to work in a league with this many good QBs. That’s not going to work against the better offenses in the playoffs. Look at the difference in personality. Look how intense McDermott is. I have seen him take over the play-call and immediately the pressure increases. We should be dictating play and not even allowing teams to set up to throw balls past the sticks on 3rd and long. This is a change that needs to be made. If we go down we need it to be with out fastball. Have the HC call his specialty.

[Behindenemylines]

17 hours ago, DieHardBillsFan said:

Teams aren't figuring the Bills out. JA is banged up clearly.  The D is built to expect points from the offense. Then we play nickel on pad plays. With our qb hurt we aren't playing Bills ball. But they haven't figured us out. 

I don’t understand the statement  “the D is built to expect  points from the offense”. 

The D should be built to keep the opposing team at 0.  Full stop

 

If you mean we are built to hold teams to field goals, that philosophy means give them the short stuff until they get to the 40 then tighten up you D.  Makes little to no sense to me.  
 

 

[SoCal Deek]

My biggest problem with McD is that he appears to be very uninvolved during the game. He looks like some soccer coaches where he figures if given a chair he’d sit there and let the players work things out. Maybe he’s right, and he’s definitely VERY trusting of his Assistants, but I’d prefer it if he would get more involved. It’s just a management style thing to me.

[Fan in Chicago]

17 hours ago, The Wiz said:

This is what I was thinking as well. 

 

When the clock starts at 12 and the play happens I doubt the players are going to take the time to find the game clock and see if they should call a TO yet or not. They are going to see the play is over and call it immediately. 

 

On the other hand, it very well could have been mcD.

Strangely, I thought the clock changed from 5 second to 7 seconds. At first when the TO was called, I am quite sure I saw 5 remaining seconds and then when Bass was lining up, it changed to 7 seconds. Was I imagining things?

[klos63]

2 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

My biggest problem with McD is that he appears to be very uninvolved during the game. He looks like some soccer coaches where he figures if given a chair he’d sit there and let the players work things out. Maybe he’s right, and he’s definitely VERY trusting of his Assistants, but I’d prefer it if he would get more involved. It’s just a management style thing to me.

I'm guessing that he's very involved in the game. That's a very odd take on him.

2 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have zero issue with the offense. We are still scoring at an incredible rate and our QB has been hurt for 3 weeks. I have no issue with McDermott. Monday through Saturday he’s as good as there is and he took our franchise from a 20 year joke, to a super bowl favorite. The last 2 games were in very difficult circumstances and we won both. That’s something to be proud of. This team I loaded with talent and if we ever get out of our own way, there may be nobody that can beat us.

My issue lies with the Defense. That’s the biggest concern I have and it’s growing worse by the week. I have never liked Fraizer. I hate his approach to calling a game. I didn’t like it when he was in Minnesota and I don’t like it here. We have an incredibly talented defense. The best personnel in the NFL on defense IMO and when healthy I don’t think anyone is close. The players are why we have had any success. There is zero imagination to this defense. It’s incredibly simple and predictable. Every team will

tell you what we do is basic. We just have executed it at a very high level because our secondary has been an eraser. We never blitz, every accurate QB has all day to sit back and carve us up. We never come off nickel even when teams are making us stop the run. Every physical team imposes their will on us inside on the ground. We cant tackle, can’t get off the field on 3rd down. We can only take away the run when we focus all effort and then the pass defense is completely compromised. When we aren’t turning people over, we aren’t stopping them. This defense has been figured out and it’s broken. This is why we lost to KC and this is how our season will end this year…unless we fix it. McDermott is the coach but this is not his defense. It’s Leslie Fraizers. We need McDermott to take this defense over, call the plays and change the aggression. We should be setting the tone on defense and making teams uncomfortable. That’s not Fraizer. He’s a soft, fall back, bend but don’t break and hope the other team gets bored. That’s not going to work in a league with this many good QBs. That’s not going to work against the better offenses in the playoffs. Look at the difference in personality. Look how intense McDermott is. I have seen him take over the play-call and immediately the pressure increases. We should be dictating play and not even allowing teams to set up to throw balls past the sticks on 3rd and long. This is a change that needs to be made. If we go down we need it to be with out fastball. Have the HC call his specialty.

When we were healthy the first bunch of games, the defense was absolutely dominant. Missing so many players really has a huge impact on the unit's performance.  I hated going through your ramblings, so I didn't even notice if you mentioned all the injuries on the defense at all.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

22 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

I thought our time management was really bad at the end of the 1st half, and mildly bad at the end of the 2nd half. 

 

We had 2 timeouts for this sequence at the end of the first half and didn't use one. Too much time came off the clock and really hurt out chances of getting a TD (at least we got a FG).

 

1st & 10 at BUF 25

(1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards (J.Jacobs).

1st & 10 at DET 48

(1:24 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to S.Diggs. Ball thrown away.

2nd & 10 at DET 48

(1:20 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles up the middle to DET 43 for 5 yards (C.Board).

3rd & 5 at DET 43

(0:52 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right to S.Diggs to DET 36 for 7 yards (A.Anzalone).

1st & 10 at DET 36

(0:32 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right. ball thrown away.

 

In the 2nd half we panicked after the last play and took the timeout with 7 seconds remaining. We should have waited for ~3 seconds so the FG attempt is the last play of the game. Sure, the odds aren't great that the Lions would score on a kickoff return, but it's not 0% (like it would be if we had waited on the TO). 

 

You can attempt a fg again if the snap is bad since it wasn’t 4th down.  Odds are higher that that will happen than a kickoff return td. 
I don’t believe it was ‘panic’ at all.  I’m actually not 100% sure on this but I’m pretty sure the holder can throw the ball away 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[klos63]

4 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have zero issue with the offense. We are still scoring at an incredible rate and our QB has been hurt for 3 weeks. I have no issue with McDermott. Monday through Saturday he’s as good as there is and he took our franchise from a 20 year joke, to a super bowl favorite. The last 2 games were in very difficult circumstances and we won both. That’s something to be proud of. This team I loaded with talent and if we ever get out of our own way, there may be nobody that can beat us.

My issue lies with the Defense. That’s the biggest concern I have and it’s growing worse by the week. I have never liked Fraizer. I hate his approach to calling a game. I didn’t like it when he was in Minnesota and I don’t like it here. We have an incredibly talented defense. The best personnel in the NFL on defense IMO and when healthy I don’t think anyone is close. The players are why we have had any success. There is zero imagination to this defense. It’s incredibly simple and predictable. Every team will

tell you what we do is basic. We just have executed it at a very high level because our secondary has been an eraser. We never blitz, every accurate QB has all day to sit back and carve us up. We never come off nickel even when teams are making us stop the run. Every physical team imposes their will on us inside on the ground. We cant tackle, can’t get off the field on 3rd down. We can only take away the run when we focus all effort and then the pass defense is completely compromised. When we aren’t turning people over, we aren’t stopping them. This defense has been figured out and it’s broken. This is why we lost to KC and this is how our season will end this year…unless we fix it. McDermott is the coach but this is not his defense. It’s Leslie Fraizers. We need McDermott to take this defense over, call the plays and change the aggression. We should be setting the tone on defense and making teams uncomfortable. That’s not Fraizer. He’s a soft, fall back, bend but don’t break and hope the other team gets bored. That’s not going to work in a league with this many good QBs. That’s not going to work against the better offenses in the playoffs. Look at the difference in personality. Look how intense McDermott is. I have seen him take over the play-call and immediately the pressure increases. We should be dictating play and not even allowing teams to set up to throw balls past the sticks on 3rd and long. This is a change that needs to be made. If we go down we need it to be with out fastball. Have the HC call his specialty.

Just read a stat from Thursday that we blitzed Goff 46% of his dropbacks. A little more often than 'never blitzing'.

[SoCal Deek]

2 hours ago, klos63 said:

I'm guessing that he's very involved in the game. That's a very odd take on him.

 

I’m only basing it on what I see when they show him on the sideline.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

1 hour ago, klos63 said:

Just read a stat from Thursday that we blitzed Goff 46% of his dropbacks. A little more often than 'never blitzing'.

How about before Thursday? No team blitzes less then us

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

On 11/25/2022 at 10:15 AM, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

I thought our time management was really bad at the end of the 1st half, and mildly bad at the end of the 2nd half. 

 

We had 2 timeouts for this sequence at the end of the first half and didn't use one. Too much time came off the clock and really hurt out chances of getting a TD (at least we got a FG).

 

1st & 10 at BUF 25

(1:52 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen pass deep right to I.McKenzie to DET 48 for 27 yards (J.Jacobs).

1st & 10 at DET 48

(1:24 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right to S.Diggs. Ball thrown away.

2nd & 10 at DET 48

(1:20 - 2nd) (Shotgun) J.Allen scrambles up the middle to DET 43 for 5 yards (C.Board).

3rd & 5 at DET 43

(0:52 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass short right to S.Diggs to DET 36 for 7 yards (A.Anzalone).

1st & 10 at DET 36

(0:32 - 2nd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) J.Allen pass incomplete deep right. ball thrown away.

 

In the 2nd half we panicked after the last play and took the timeout with 7 seconds remaining. We should have waited for ~3 seconds so the FG attempt is the last play of the game. Sure, the odds aren't great that the Lions would score on a kickoff return, but it's not 0% (like it would be if we had waited on the TO). 

 

 

I disagree on the first half. Bills ran out of downs not time. At most they maybe could have burned one time out early in the drive. But I like keeping at least two timeouts with the clock under 20 seconds and inside the 20 yard line. 
 

I believe the Bills fully intended to use two of the three timeouts after the last 1st and 2nd down plays. But they were both incompletions so that is why optically it looks bad as if we wasted unused timeouts. 
 

No problem at all with the last drive of the first half. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

You can attempt a fg again if the snap is bad since it wasn’t 4th down.  Odds are higher that that will happen than a kickoff return td. 
I don’t believe it was ‘panic’ at all.  I’m actually not 100% sure on this but I’m pretty sure the holder can throw the ball away 

 

As we had used our 3rd timeout there's no realistic chance at another FG in the event of a bad snap. 

 

That would require a Bills recovery and then throw the ball away without taking an intentional grounding penalty, or running the ball out of bounds. As there wouldn't be any eligible receivers downfield, that means we would have to 1) recover the fumble 2) run outside the tackle box 3) throw it past the line of scrimmage. If we tried running it out there's the risk of the clock hitting 0

 

I'd be surprised if an NFL team has ever had a bad snap with <10 seconds left, with no timeouts, and was able to get another attempt at a FG. 

 

The decision to take the timeout with 7 seconds was the wrong one. I don't think it's much of an argument either. 

[Dopey]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:37 PM, Donuts and Doritos said:

Lions are dead last defensively in pts allowed averaging 28.2. They also have the 2nd worst run D in the league (Browns have the worst) & they were missing their top CB. We, the #2 scoring offense scored 26 (the D got 2 w/ the safety). & We punted 3 consecutive times for the 1st time this year. Hardly a stellar day by Coach Dorsey.

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-points-per-game

 

 

If Josh doesn’t throw ANOTHER red zone int, we score more than what Detroit has averaged giving up. That’s not on Dorsey. No credit to Dorsey for calling the game winning drive? I even saw we had to use Van Roten and Hart on the oline. Bates at center.  Stellar? No, but nothing to complain about. Especially after winning 2 road games in a 5 day span, while walking through the snow, backwards and uphill. 

[klos63]

3 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

How about before Thursday? No team blitzes less then us

after Thursday's game, you said we never blitz. Apparently you didn't watch the game Thursday or you just don't pay attention.

 

When we were healthy on defense, not blitzing much was a great thing for our defense. We were dominant. Injuries are the problem, nothing else right now in my opinion.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

14 minutes ago, klos63 said:

after Thursday's game, you said we never blitz. Apparently you didn't watch the game Thursday or you just don't pay attention.

 

When we were healthy on defense, not blitzing much was a great thing for our defense. We were dominant. Injuries are the problem, nothing else right now in my opinion.

We started blitzing after Miller got hurt. Is that going to be the new norm or is it going to regress to the 4+ years of history that we have to go off of? Is your point supposed to be we blitz a lot now…Thursday was an outlier. Or maybe they finally got smart.

[Donuts and Doritos]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

If Josh doesn’t throw ANOTHER red zone int, we score more than what Detroit has averaged giving up. That’s not on Dorsey. No credit to Dorsey for calling the game winning drive? I even saw we had to use Van Roten and Hart on the oline. Bates at center.  Stellar? No, but nothing to complain about. Especially after winning 2 road games in a 5 day span, while walking through the snow, backwards and uphill. 

 

& If Detroit doesn't fumble they don't, so turnovers is a wash. This was not a good D they played, nor was Cleveland. The Offense has been underperforming for 4 and a half games (which predates the line injuries). Yes you're right the players aren't executing as well as they could & yes there's been adversity. There's also been some things scheme wise that could be improved. They all need to look at what the issues are & how to fix them as players & coaches. As a first year OC we all knew Dorsey would need to learn to adjust, I think he's working on that, I have confidence he'll figure it out. But I'm not going to say what a wonderful job he's doing based on squeaking by one of the worst D.s in the league (as this thread suggests). Pats, Jets & Phins are on deck & they won't be so easy. They have set a higher standard & expectations. It's SB or bust this year. He & the players can, should & will do better. Go Bills.

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Donuts and Doritos