Injuries NOT an excuse. Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury thru Week 11

[Stank_Nasty]

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

These charts shows that the Bills are actually the 2nd or 3rd MOST AFFECTED by injury of any team in the NFL.

 

 

So it looks like we finally have a graph that takes into account the QUALITY of the players being lost. And it confirms what anyone with a half a brain already knew….

 

But then there was @FilthyBeast

[MPT]

On 11/25/2022 at 2:46 PM, transient said:

How did injuries result in healthy players forgetting how to tackle?

 

Backups are backups because they're not as good at tackling.

[John from Riverside]

It’s not the amount of players it’s who is actually hurt. That’s the issue with the bills.

 

having said that they have overcome it, so nobody is making excuses no excuses need to be made

[JerseyBills]

We've missed multiple all Pro, pro bowl and 1st rd picks though.

 

Quality matters in this situation but we're still 8-3 and control our own destiny in division and potentially in the AFC 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

These charts shows that the Bills are actually the 2nd or 3rd MOST AFFECTED by injury of any team in the NFL.

 

 

Already posted this pages ago

[Dopey]

Excuses for what!!?

WE WON!!!!

WE WON!!!

WE WON!!!

2 road games in 5 days!

WE WON!!!

WE WON!!!

WE WON!!!

LAMP ALERT???

[Royale with Cheese]

19 hours ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

You are acting like we've missed Oliver/Hyde/Poyer/Edmunds/Milano/Groot/etc all together for multiple games.

 

My point is that's not the reality of the situation and it's really been one or two of these key guys at a time which still sucks but should change the entire defense and integrity of the scheme.

 

Oliver/Hyde/White/Poyer have all together have missed close to 35 games total.

I think Oliver has only played with Poyer about 3 or 4 games.

Poyer played one 1.5 games with Hyde.

Poyer played 2 series with White.

 

[Scott7975]

23 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Injuries are an excuse like it was for Baltimore last year.  Saying injuries aren't an excuse is basically saying the back ups are equally as effective as the starters.

 

A regular rate of injuries to starters, if you're a good team, shouldn't faze you too much.  But when you have this:

- Von Miller (Indefinitely)

- Jordan Poyer (4 games)

- Micah Hyde (15 games)

- Tre White (10 games)

- Kair Elam (2 games)

- Christian Benford (3 games + additional 4 games for IR)

- Jordan Phillips (3 games)

- Tim Settle (2 games)

- Ed Oliver (4 games)

- Greg Rosseau  (3 games)

- Tremaine Edmunds (3 games)

- Matt Milano (1 game)

 

Everyone of these players except Milano missed multiple games or will miss multiple games.  That's 4 All Pro's on defense that we have missed multiple games at the same time.  That's many key contributing starters who aren't All Pro's. 

Not only that, but the back ups have gotten hurt and we've had to use 3rd and 4th stringers.

We have had every single starter injured except Taron Johnson and DaQuan.  That's unreal.

 

If the Cowboys were missing Parsons, Diggs, Lawrence, Kearse, Vander Esch, Anthony Brown and Armstrong all around the same time and for multiple games...would they be as good?  

 

and that doesnt even include our oline.

[teef]

17 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Oliver/Hyde/White/Poyer have all together have missed close to 35 games total.

I think Oliver has only played with Poyer about 3 or 4 games.

Poyer played one 1.5 games with Hyde.

Poyer played 2 series with White.

 

the moment i got into the car after work yesterday, they were talking about injuries.  i think they mentioned that kc was now the leader for super bowl odds instead of buffalo.  the main reason?  injuries.  tough injuries coming at a bad time.  the bills don't seem to be trending in the better direction either.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 minute ago, teef said:

the moment i got into the car after work yesterday, they were talking about injuries.  i think they mentioned that kc was now the leader for super bowl odds instead of buffalo.  the main reason?  injuries.  tough injuries coming at a bad time.  the bills don't seem to be trending in the better direction either.

 

They are barely favorites above the Bills too even with our injuries.  

 

We have 6 weeks to get healthy.

[Shaw66]

I was in a discussion with someone a few days ago, and he pointed out the real problem with the Bills' injuries on defense, beyond just the quality of the talent the Bills lost.   The real problem is that the Bills play a complicated, team defense.   It's built based on the talents of the players, and every player's role is designed both to allow him to play within his abilities and to benefit from the abilities of the players around him.  

 

In particular, the jobs of the average players in the defense are made easier by the quality of the best players around them.  For example, with White in the lineup, the Bills can shift players around and make do with Levi Wallace or Dane Jackson at #2.  With Hyde and Poyer in the lineup, the Bills can afford to let Edmunds roam in the passing zones, because the two safeties will help in the run defense.   With Edmunds in the lineup, all of the defensive backs have smaller zones to cover.  With Miller and Rousseau in the lineup, the defensive backs know they don't have to cover too long, and they can be more aggressive in man coverage.   It all works together.

 

So, what happened this season?  They start without White, so they're man-to-man options are more limited with Jackson and the rookies at corner.   They lose Hyde, so the run defense suffers, and Edmunds has to adjust to help against the run.   Then Poyer is down, then up, then down, and the defense gets readjusted.  Then Rousseau, then Miller.   Pretty much every week, the Bills have been adjusting and readjusting the assignments of every player on the defense, because a different talented guy they rely on has gone down.   They haven't played with the same defensive scheme for three weeks in a row, because they keep losing players who allow their current scheme to work.   

 

Think about it:  every week or two the Bills were trying to work an average NFL talent into the lineup to cover for a quality NFL talent, and they were trying to figure out how to get that average talent to play well when some other high level talent disappeared.   Every week they did that, they had to adjust their assignments, because the guy coming in couldn't do all the things the starter could do.   The latest is the pass defense with Edmunds gone from the middle.  With Klein playing, Milano and five DBs have to change how they play their position. An they've already changed when Hyde went down, and the changed when Poyer was out, and they changed when Milano was out.  It's been nonstop adjustments.  In some ways, they would have been better off if all the injuries had happened at the same time.  At least then they would have had 11 guys developing together into the same defense.   

 

What the Bills need to have happen now is for everyone to get back into the lineup.  Get White back, get Rousseau back, get Edmunds back, get Miller back, probably in that order.  Hyde would be a huge bonus, but I don't think that's happening.   If they could get those guys back in the next two or three weeks, then by the end of the season they'd be able to play the defensive scheme that they intended to play when the season began, instead of adjusting and readjusting, week after week after week to try to find ways that a bunch of ordinary players can play high-level defense.  

[US Egg]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

The real problem is that the Bills play a complicated, team defense.   It's built based on the talents of the players, and every player's role is designed both to allow him to play within his abilities and to benefit from the abilities of the players around him. 

Coaching to talent does require attaining talent.

 

McBeane did, but, the cavalcade of injuries hurt.

[Dopey]

20 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea.. can’t deny I was against a first round corner… but Jackson has been garbage the past few weeks and they really miss Tre… 

More proof that McBeane has a better grasp on building a team than TBD wannabe GMs?

 I think so. 

[Logic]

5 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

Already posted this pages ago

Thanks. 

Your cookie is in the mail.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

Thanks. 

Your cookie is in the mail.

better be peanut butter or we're having words

 

[Dopey]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Plenty of “wannnabe” GMs were also very loud in the offseason about the need for better WRs and offensive linemen….. they were proven right despite the McBeane brown nosers trying to bring them down. 

Cool, you got it. Wannabe GMs LAMPING. 

[PrimeTime101]

On 11/25/2022 at 12:32 PM, Big Turk said:

Bills tied for 5th fewest man games lost to injury with only 83.

 

 

 

The difference? Many of them have been to key players unlike the last several years.

 

 

So the excuses the Bills are somehow more injured than every other team needs to stop. They are STILL one of the least injured teams in the NFL even with what seems like a crazy rash of injuries...we just don't see all the players out for other teams because we don't follow them very closely.

 

Injuries to non key players/starters would help as well.

This data means NOTHING, do you know why?

 

these graphs dont tell the whole story. Doesnt say that our entire secondary was out one game. Does not say that. One of our losses.

 

You know what you can do with this graph? print it. Take a nice look at the paper form of it, then flush it down the toilet cause that is all this information is worth... what goes down the toilet.

 

I normally love your work Turk but this is subjective nonsense. 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Plenty of “wannnabe” GMs were also very loud in the offseason about the need for better WRs and offensive linemen….. they were proven right despite the McBeane brown nosers trying to bring them down. 

 

Plenty of wannabe GM's also wanted Rosen over Allen.

Plenty of wannabe GM's also wanted Milano not re-signed because he was an off the ball linebacker.

Plenty of wannabe GM's also criticized the Poyer signing because he wasn't great in Cleveland.  

 

It's very easy to pick out spots here and there where the GM could have done better.  Most of Beane's detractors do not care about the full 53 man roster that was put together....it's not important to them.  What's important to them is finding an area where they aren't as strong and then criticizing to no end.  

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, I am the egg man said:

Coaching to talent does require attaining talent.

 

McBeane did, but, the cavalcade of injuries hurt.

The point is that McDermott's philosophy is that your scheme changes as the talent changes.   His approach is to put the best player on the field at each position, and then to adjust the scheme so that he is asking each player to do only things that that player is capable of.  So, when Klein comes in for Edmunds, he doesn't ask Klein to play the position the same way Edmunds does, he asks him to play the way Klein can play it.  But that, in turn, means that he has to go to Milano and the DBs and have each of THEM change how they're playing THEY'RE positions, because they're assignments had been designed around what Edmunds was going to do.   

 

Yes, if you don't have enough talent, at some point it falls apart, but even if you do have good talent in the backup roles, each time one of those key guys (think White, Poyer, Miller, Edmunds) goes down, several other positions get adjusted.  This season has seen new adjustments of that sort happening almost every week.   Adjustment after adjustment after adjustment.   They're not playing the same defensive scheme today that was installed in August.  

[loyal2dagame]

It's not about the quantity of players that the Bills have lost to injury.  It's the quality. And when your team is losing all pro after all pro, injuries matter more.