Dorsey Play Design Issues

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The lack of "stacks" in the scheme design to give Josh more single defender reads is sometbing I brought up 3 weeks ago. At the moment the passing concepts remind me a bit of the Greg Roman / Chris Palmer pass game design. It priortises giving each receiver "space" in which to work but it puts a greater emphasis on guys to win their 1v1 and Josh the find the guys that won as opposed to Daboll's design which had some of that but mixed it in with some clever designs to put a single DB in a bind and let Josh make a quick decision depending which way that defender jumps. 

 

Look he is a first year OC so he deserves some time to figure this stuff out a bit but we are not as creative on offense right now as we have been and as I would want us to be.

You are once again kind in your critique.
Watching some of the routes finish i wonder what Dorsey is thinking running patterns that draw two and 3 defenders into a spot.
 Not a fan of his pass play calls at all and why i want the run game. Kromer knows much more than Dorsey and Ken should lean on him more.
He is not fooling anyone with his pass designs
 

 

[Einstein]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The lack of "stacks" in the scheme design to give Josh more single defender reads is sometbing I brought up 3 weeks ago. At the moment the passing concepts remind me a bit of the Greg Roman / Chris Palmer pass game design. It priortises giving each receiver "space" in which to work but it puts a greater emphasis on guys to win their 1v1 and Josh the find the guys that won as opposed to Daboll's design which had some of that but mixed it in with some clever designs to put a single DB in a bind and let Josh make a quick decision depending which way that defender jumps. 

 

Look he is a first year OC so he deserves some time to figure this stuff out a bit but we are not as creative on offense right now as we have been and as I would want us to be.

 

I’m just surprised after watching Daboll do it for several years that Dorsey decided to change it.

[die hard bills fan]

Can't comment too much on the x' s and o's but looking through an averge fan's eye it seems like the wr's are rarely open and have too many contested catches to make. Maybe why Josh's interceptions are up. Compare that a KC offense where guys seem to running wide open all the time.

[Billz4ever]

7 hours ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Greg Cosell & Tasker have a real interesting take on problems with Dorsey's scheme / play calling (14:45 - 16:22). Expects WR's to win 1 on 1 every time, doesn't stack them w/ rubs & picks to scheme them open. Tasker points out there's no quick slants to get the ball out quickly & early to take pressure off the O-line & Josh. Watching the last 2 games it's noticeable (though he did call screens that just didn't work. & The quick 5yd pass to take the cushion yds was a nice adjustment yesterday).

 

My kids pointed out that when Davis motions back to the formation it's a run every time. It was a pretty predictable tell yesterday (I imagine the Lions saw it on film). 

 

The Offense struggles lately are reminiscent of last year, which they turned around. I get they're dealing with injuries, guys aren't executing & Dorsey is a 1st year OC. But I'm interested to see what tendency / issues they have that they can change scheme / play calling wise to get back on track. Thoughts?

 

 

 

It seems as though we've either gotten away with what was working early in the season, or we've become too predictable and teams have figured us out by studying film. 

 

I didn't think they switched up the entire playbook from when Dabs was here, so we should still have a lot of those plays as options.  I think a lot of the struggles aren't necessarily problems with the plays themselves, but more a situation of when they're being called.

 

 

Last drive before the half yesterday, they were running all sideline routes that Detroit was covering pretty well.  The Bills were playing like they had no timeouts when they had 2.  Middle of the field was there for the taking. Made absolutely no sense.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Billz4ever

[EmotionallyUnstable]

Makes me wonder, what do these film room and install days look like in the QB and offensive rooms…

 

Dorsey: “alright here’s the game plan”

Allen: 

J. Brady:

 

What is the back and forth conversation that is happening? Is Allen having a hand in this process? It was my understanding one of the main reasons people were excited about retaining and promoting Dorsey was because Allen and him had a good working rapport and seemed to be on the same page with a lot of things.

 

Does Dorsey explain the “why” behind their scheme and game plan to allen, and if so, what questions are being asked? Is Allen always on board? How about McDermott? Joe Brady? Keenum? 
 

It will never come out because of how well and buttoned up this team appears to be in regards to keeping things in house, but I am dying to know what the film study and install day conversations/thoughts and discussions look like 

 

 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

I honestly think that part of the play calling is being done to keep the receivers healthy, seems like they pull out crossing patterns/slants/rub routes when they need them

 

Did this last season to a point as well, offense was very bland/vanilla strangely (maybe not so strangely) around the same weeks

[Mrbojanglezs]

Downside of having a defensive coach is having to start over on offense whenever you have success and lose an OC

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Dorsey is on his way to becoming the next Joe Brady with the panthers

Edited November 26, 2022 by JakeFrommStateFarm

[Chaos]

7 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

The Bills cannot afford during the "Allen SB contending window" to piss away a season while Dorsey learns on the job.  Either he is an OC capable of making this team a SB winner NOW, or replace him with someone who is. 

 

An OC who requires some on the job training is for teams on the outside looking in, not the Bills.

When no one was looking Josh Allen's career is about 1/3 over.  There are only so many next years. 

25 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Downside of having a defensive coach is having to start over on offense whenever you have success and lose an OC

This is a huge point. The Coach/QB combo is the most important dynamic for succeeding in the NFL.  And when HC's sub-contract that relationship to the OC, we end up where the Bills are this year. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Chaos

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The lack of "stacks" in the scheme design to give Josh more single defender reads is sometbing I brought up 3 weeks ago. At the moment the passing concepts remind me a bit of the Greg Roman / Chris Palmer pass game design. It priortises giving each receiver "space" in which to work but it puts a greater emphasis on guys to win their 1v1 and Josh the find the guys that won as opposed to Daboll's design which had some of that but mixed it in with some clever designs to put a single DB in a bind and let Josh make a quick decision depending which way that defender jumps. 

 

Look he is a first year OC so he deserves some time to figure this stuff out a bit but we are not as creative on offense right now as we have been and as I would want us to be.

 

 

I think it's just a bit of over-adjustment to Daboll's inconsistent (wicky-wacky) play calling tendencies.   And McDermott might have something to do with that,  I don't think he loved Daboll's work last season.  If not for a number of inexcusable Allen turnovers this offense looks MUCH more productive against a much better schedule than they faced last year.   At worst they've been more consistent.  The Daboll lovers hate to hear that but there hasn't been a 6 point performance against the worst team in the NFL this year now, has there?    And I'd also add that the personnel isn't as good on offense this season either.   Saffold has been pretty lousy.  Beasley and Sanders were replaced by Shakir and Kumerow/Hodgins/Gentry(I guess?).  Yikes.  

 

I'm not enamored with the work of Dorsey either but I agree that he needs some time to figure it out.   Daboll was terrible at many stops before he became a genius overnight.

[Beck Water]

11 hours ago, Yobogoya! said:

What’s unfortunate is that we don’t seem to have anyone else in the building to assist as Dorsey comes into his own. McD just doesn’t have the knowledge and experience on that side of the ball. It’s not an ideal situation to be in to compete for a title.. 

 

I thought the whole point of hiring former Saints and LSU passing game coordinator/Panthers OC Joe Brady as QB coach, and hiring former Rams run game coordinator and OL coach as OL coach, was to give Dorsey that very assistance you say we don't have anyone in the building to provide?

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

Hopefully they make some adjustments…I really think they expected gabe Davis to be winning a lot more 1 on 1 matchups but he’s been struggling finishing the catches.  
 

this is pretty much wild speculation on my part without watching all22s in awhile  but it seems like teams know josh is playing hurt and that we are trying to minimize the qb running game which is making everything more difficult.  It hasn’t seemed like a designed part of the offense in a very long time  and when it happens it’s very late in the game with the game on the line.

Edited November 26, 2022 by Generic_Bills_Fan

[wvbillsfan]

It’s frustrating to watch at times. Last year we had Beasley and sanders. Two pretty good routes runners, guys good at creating separation. Doesn’t seem to be a strength for Davis or Mckenzie. Those guys are better at crossers or dig routes. 
Those plays work fine but take a while to develop. There’s no rhythm to our passing attack. Gotta find the balance between shot plays and getting it out quickly. 
Stick with the run and use play action to dial up a few shots