(OT) Review: Episode III Revenge of the Sith

[Hollywood Donahoe]

All this talk about the chosen one. I dont think Anakin is the chosen one. I think it is Luke.

It's Anakin. He destroys the Sith by killing the Emperor.

 

For those who do not know things that happen beyond episode 6, the Emperor does not die.

That's all EU junk. As far as the Canon is concerned, Palpatine dies in ROTJ.

 

And since in some ways, Luke kills Vader, he kills a sith lord. so i think Luke was the chosen one.

Anakin dies from Papatine's lightning, not from anything Luke did.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

One through six.  It is the only way.

Disagree. Three through six, and then one through three.

[Hollywood Donahoe]

Disagree.  Three through six, and then one through three.

The highest authority on the subject says 1-6.

 

But if you insist on watching them out of order, I recommend 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.

[taterhill]

does 1-6 mean...new ones first, then old ones?

[MadBuffaloDisease]

The highest authority on the subject says 1-6.

The "highest authority" also gave us the Ewoks and Jar Jar Binks. Nuff said! Oh and he DID create the OT first. Why?

 

I just think that the biggest thing with the OT was being introduced to, and learning to loathe, the most evil man in the universe (I still stand by that and still analogize the Emperor to Hitler and Vader to Goethe, since it's one thing to order horrible deeds to be done and another to actually DO them and ENJOY doing them), finding out he is the hero's father, and then seeing him rediscover the good in him because of the love of his son. The beauty of that storyline is what makes the OT so amazing IMHO. I mean the guy gave up ulimate power (it would only have been a matter of time before he eliminated the Emperor I believe), and in the process his life, for his son. That's real love! And once you view the NT, it brings some balance/closure to the reason he became Vader in the first place.

But if you insist on watching them out of order, I recommend 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6.

That wouldn't make sense. It's either (episodes) 3-6 and then 1-3, or 1-6.

[sweet baboo]

I saw the movie this afternoon with the wife as she surprised me by sending the kids to the grandparents, made lunch reservations prior to the movie, and looked up movie times.  I knew I married her for a reason!

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what??? you didn't take advantage of that time for some "quality" time at home without the kids?

you could've just brought the kids to star wars

[/dev/null]

does 1-6 mean...new ones first, then old ones?

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I say watch Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, A New Hope, Empire Strieks Back, and Return of the Jedi in that order

 

AoC looks alot better now as back story for RotS. Phantom Menace is still bantha stojan

[ajzepp]

HD, what the hell are you doing posting all this stuff? Where is your take on the film?? lol I thought you were going last night......Did you see it or what?!

[ajzepp]

I don't know if I believe that the Emperor had designs on Anakin since his birth, but I do believe that he had a hand in the events in Anakin's life that made him want to turn to the Dark Side to a point.  To have been able to orchestrate everything seems a little far-fetched and beyond the Emperor's powers, from what I saw in the prequels (i.e. if he could direct the flow of events, he wouldn't ever run into resistance). 

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In all honesty, this is the reason I think a lot of people didn't enjoy the prequels as much as they could have. Ask yourself what the purpose of the trade federation was in Ep.I. What sort of manipulation would be required in order to create a completely phony invasion, and what was the goal of that invasion? Was the goal met?

 

In Ep.II, what is the main issue that Anakin is confronted with? What is his greatest fear and what is happening to him to cause this? Were there events orchestrated that would perpetuate and exacerbate this fear? When you start thinking about all this stuff, you find there are some common denominators.....the need for power....development of anger......fear....etc. Also in Ep.II, what is happening with regard to the clones? How can an army this size be created without anyones knowledge? What was the purpose of those clones? Again, ALL of this stuff points to Palpatine. Ask yourself this: What events of the prequels can I say that Palpatine had his hand in? The list is staggering. Even Anakin's birth, which he hints about in Ep.III!

 

In Ep.III, everything comes to a head. Palpatine is outed as the puppet master, and what is the one thing he keeps pounding into Anakin's head? Is there a link between what Anakin went through in Ep.II (and to some degree Ep.I) and what Palpatine is telling him in III? You bet there is. As we see in Ep.III, Palpatine used EVERYONE in order to pull off this plan. It really did all start back in Ep.I and he had his hand in EVERYTHING. That's why the prequels become so cool when you view them from a 'what's REALLY going on here' perspective.

 

I understand your point about meeting resistance, but you have to remember that this guy was operating in the shadows. Nobody knew that he was Sidious. On top of that, as Palpatine he had immense power because he had become chancellor and was given emergency war powers. The whole thing is just awesome!

[MadBuffaloDisease]

what??? you didn't take advantage of that time for some "quality" time at home without the kids?

Let's just say that we had to find something else to do and leave it at that.

you could've just brought the kids to star wars

The boys are 2-1/2 and 4 years old. As it is I'm waiting until they're 5-1/2 and 7 before introducing them to episode 4, in the hopes that it leaves as great an impression on them as it did on me, because that's around the age I first saw the movie. Being that this one is darker, I'll wait until much later to show it to them.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

In all honesty, this is the reason I think a lot of people didn't enjoy the prequels as much as they could have. Ask yourself what the purpose of the trade federation was in Ep.I. What sort of manipulation would be required in order to create a completely phony invasion, and what was the goal of that invasion? Was the goal met?

 

In Ep.II, what is the main issue that Anakin is confronted with? What is his greatest fear and what is happening to him to cause this? Were there events orchestrated that would perpetuate and exacerbate this fear? When you start thinking about all this stuff, you find there are some common denominators.....the need for power....development of anger......fear....etc. Also in Ep.II, what is happening with regard to the clones? How can an army this size be created without anyones knowledge? What was the purpose of those clones? Again, ALL of this stuff points to Palpatine. Ask yourself this: What events of the prequels can I say that Palpatine had his hand in? The list is staggering. Even Anakin's birth, which he hints about in Ep.III!

 

In Ep.III, everything comes to a head. Palpatine is outed as the puppet master, and what is the one thing he keeps pounding into Anakin's head? Is there a link between what Anakin went through in Ep.II (and to some degree Ep.I) and what Palpatine is telling him in III? You bet there is. As we see in Ep.III, Palpatine used EVERYONE in order to pull off this plan. It really did all start back in Ep.I and he had his hand in EVERYTHING. That's why the prequels become so cool when you view them from a 'what's REALLY going on here' perspective.

 

I understand your point about meeting resistance, but you have to remember that this guy was operating in the shadows. Nobody knew that he was Sidious. On top of that, as Palpatine he had immense power because he had become chancellor and was given emergency war powers. The whole thing is just awesome!

Maybe I missed some things, and since I can't go back and see the first 2 without renting them, and probably won't see this latest one for awhile, clue me in a little more.

[Thurman's Helmet]

I believe Lucas said that 60% of the prequel storyline was in Ep III. Ep I and II each had 20% so the rest was filler.

[CosmicBills]

I believe Lucas said that 60% of the prequel storyline was in Ep III.    Ep I and II each had 20% so the rest was filler.

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That's exactly what he said this week in EW.

 

And it's that sort of statement that frustrated fans and even McCallum with the prequils. But, it's the story Lucas wanted to tell...and since it's his money and his story...oh well.

[ajzepp]

Maybe I missed some things, and since I can't go back and see the first 2 without renting them, and probably won't see this latest one for awhile, clue me in a little more.

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Well, let's take Ep.I as an example. I had several of my friends say they didn't like the film because the trade federation was stupid and didn't make sense. The truth is, is that it totally makes sense. If you recall, there are several scenes where Sidious is on the hologram thing talking to the leaders of the trade federation. They are nothing more than pawns that Sidious is using to create a situation that the chancelor (at the time) could not handle. So he makes a deal with these guys, tells them to threaten with invasion to freak everyone out. Palpatine then begins to start a ground-swelling for a vote of 'no confidence' in the chancellor, which eventually is carried out. That lays the groundwork for Palpatine/Sidious to toss his name in the hat, and eventually leads to his election as chancellor. Without his becoming chancellor, he cannot begin to implement additional steps that will all lead to what eventually will become the Empire. We see many of those steps (mainly the creation of the clones, the vote to give Palpatine emergency powers, and the tweaking of Anakin) take place in Ep.II.

 

The Jedi basically serve as his resistance in Ep.I, which is where Darth Maul comes in. Even though they aren't on the trail of Palpatine at this point, they are screwing with his plans for the trade federation, and he can't have that. In the end of Ep.I you have a scene where Palpatine walks by after being elected chancellor with a huge grin on his face (since his plan had basically worked perfectly), and stopping by to make the comment to the 9-year old Anakin in a very jovial manner, "we'll be watching you with GREAT interest" or something like that. Clearly the way he says it indicates knowledge of who he is and the potential that Palpatine sees in him.

 

Phew......that's the best I can do for not having seen it in a while......feel free to disagree, that's just my take. I just think that when you put all the Palpatine pieces together, they make quite a picture. To me, that is the key to really finding enjoyment in the prequels for those of us who are too old to put up with that Jar Jar business lol

 

If and when you watch it/them again, let me know if you disagree. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

[MadBuffaloDisease]

Well, let's take Ep.I as an example. I had several of my friends say they didn't like the film because the trade federation was stupid and didn't make sense. The truth is, is that it totally makes sense. If you recall, there are several scenes where Sidious is on the hologram thing talking to the leaders of the trade federation. They are nothing more than pawns that Sidious is using to create a situation that the chancelor (at the time) could not handle. So he makes a deal with these guys, tells them to threaten with invasion to freak everyone out. Palpatine then begins to start a ground-swelling for a vote of 'no confidence' in the chancellor, which eventually is carried out. That lays the groundwork for Palpatine/Sidious to toss his name in the hat, and eventually leads to his election as chancellor. Without his becoming chancellor, he cannot begin to implement additional steps that will all lead to what eventually will become the Empire. We see many of those steps (mainly the creation of the clones, the vote to give Palpatine emergency powers, and the tweaking of Anakin) take place in Ep.II.

 

The Jedi basically serve as his resistance in Ep.I, which is where Darth Maul comes in. Even though they aren't on the trail of Palpatine at this point, they are screwing with his plans for the trade federation, and he can't have that. In the end of Ep.I you have a scene where Palpatine walks by after being elected chancellor with a huge grin on his face (since his plan had basically worked perfectly), and stopping by to make the comment to the 9-year old Anakin in a very jovial manner, "we'll be watching you with GREAT interest" or something like that. Clearly the way he says it indicates knowledge of who he is and the potential that Palpatine sees in him.

 

Phew......that's the best I can do for not having seen it in a while......feel free to disagree, that's just my take. I just think that when you put all the Palpatine pieces together, they make quite a picture. To me, that is the key to really finding enjoyment in the prequels for those of us who are too old to put up with that Jar Jar business lol

 

If and when you watch it/them again, let me know if you disagree. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

I agree with what you said. I thought you were saying that Palpatine created Anakin or had knowledge of him prior to him being found by Quigon and Obi Wan. I think that once he WAS found and Palpatine knew of his potential, he orchestrated some of the things, like Anakin's mom's death. But I don't know if he planted the visions of Padme's death, or was the reason she died when physically she was fine (I believe the "she has no will to live" line), which is ultimately what drove him to seek out the powers of the Dark Side.

[ajzepp]

I agree with what you said.  I thought you were saying that Palpatine created Anakin or had knowledge of him prior to him being found by Quigon and Obi Wan.  I think that once he WAS found and Palpatine knew of his potential, he orchestrated some of the things, like Anakin's mom's death.  But I don't know if he planted the visions of Padme's death, or was the reason she died when physically she was fine (I believe the "she has no will to live" line), which is ultimately what drove him to seek out the powers of the Dark Side.

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The first part of what you said is something I now wonder about. It seemed that Palpatine hinted in Ep.III that Anakin's birth was the responsibility of either himself or Darth Plagueus. Lucas sort of gives the impression that it was the Sith who were resonsible for this. For all we know, they found some anonymous slave woman on Tatooine, screwed with her physiology, and there you have the origin of Anakin. I don't know, but it's hard for me to think that part of Ep.III didn't mean anything.

[Pac_Man]

I've thought about why the first Death Star took so much longer to build than the second one. When they started building the first Death Star, there were still vestiges of the Republic. Resources would have been less mobilized for a war effort, especially with the Clone Wars drawing to a close. Also, the possibility of Senatorial scrutiny would encourage a smaller percentage of the budget to go into a secret project like the Death Star.

 

The second time around, it's possible the Empire was in more of a hurry to get the thing built, and more willing to divert resources from Star Destroyers or other military spending. Also, the Empire would be more able to impose onerous tax burdens on people.

[ajzepp]

I've thought about why the first Death Star took so much longer to build than the second one. When they started building the first Death Star, there were still vestiges of the Republic. Resources would have been less mobilized for a war effort, especially with the Clone Wars drawing to a close. Also, the possibility of Senatorial scrutiny would encourage a smaller percentage of the budget to go into a secret project like the Death Star.

 

The second time around, it's possible the Empire was in more of a hurry to get the thing built, and more willing to divert resources from Star Destroyers or other military spending. Also, the Empire would be more able to impose onerous tax burdens on people.

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Pretty good! You've pretty much hit on what I think is a really important point: You can't just look at the events of the six movies and assume there is nothing more. You have to make the assumption that there is a whole lot going on that we DON'T know. The films are not absolutes. They are snapshots of a story and a universe that is only limited by the minds of Lucas and the fans.

 

PS. Regarding the Sith/Anakin connection, supposedly the print version of a recent Rolling Stone interview with Lucas confirms that he intended to imply that there is in fact a link with regard to Anakin's origins. He doesn't specify whether it's Sidious or Plagueis, but apparently he does confirm the link.

[Pac_Man]

Episode 3 was extremely well-done, and it's clearly one of the best movies I've seen. Having said this, there are a few inconsistencies:

 

**** Spolier Alert****

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1. With the Sith, there are only supposed to be two at any one time: the master and the pupil. Why then was Count Dooku teaching the robot Grevious about the force? Moreover, one's ability to use the Force, in Episode 1, was presumably determined by the mitichlorians present in the bloodstream. How many mitichlorians could a robot like Grevious possibly have?

 

2. In Episode 4, there is some kind of council on the Death Star, headed by some guy with a British accent. Darth Vader is on the council also, but at least one of the committee members saw the Force as a dying religion, and Darth Vader as a kind of dinosaur. But you'd think the power structure that had evolved at the end of Episode 3 would have placed Darth Vader or the Emperor at the head of this council. Not that there was a clear explanation for why the council--with its political games--was permitted to come into existence in the first place.

 

3. In Return of the Jedi, Luke and Leah had a conversation about their respective mothers. Leah said that she had vague memories of her mother, and that the only thing she remembered clearly was her mother was very beautiful. Unless you are prepared to accept the idea that Leah has memories from the day she was born--which I am not--this represents an inconsistency.

 

4. In the fight between Obi Wan and Darth Vader, the high ground was of pivotal importance; yet did not appear to matter very much in any of the other fights.

 

5. Count Dooku was able to use lightning in Episode 2 with no apparent difficulty; and seemingly did so to save himself the trouble of taking out his light saber. Likewise, Palpatine himself used lightning with no apparent problem in the Return of the Jedi. Yet Palpatine was permanently disfigured by using lightning in Episode 3.

[ajzepp]

Episode 3 was extremely well-done, and it's clearly one of the best movies I've seen. Having said this, there are a few inconsistencies:

 

**** Spolier Alert****

1. With the Sith, there are only supposed to be two at any one time: the master and the pupil. Why then was Count Dooku teaching the robot Grevious about the force? Moreover, one's ability to use the Force, in Episode 1, was presumably determined by the mitichlorians present in the bloodstream. How many mitichlorians could a robot like Grevious possibly have?

 

2. In Episode 4, there is some kind of council on the Death Star, headed by some guy with a British accent. Darth Vader is on the council also, but at least one of the committee members saw the Force as a dying religion, and Darth Vader as a kind of dinosaur. But you'd think the power structure that had evolved at the end of Episode 3 would have placed Darth Vader or the Emperor at the head of this council. Not that there was a clear explanation for why the council--with its political games--was permitted to come into existence in the first place.

 

3. In Return of the Jedi, Luke and Leah had a conversation about their respective mothers. Leah said that she had vague memories of her mother, and that the only thing she remembered clearly was her mother was very beautiful. Unless you are prepared to accept the idea that Leah has memories from the day she was born--which I am not--this represents an inconsistency.

 

4. In the fight between Obi Wan and Darth Vader, the high ground was of pivotal importance; yet did not appear to matter very much in any of the other fights.

 

5. Count Dooku was able to use lightning in Episode 2 with no apparent difficulty; and seemingly did so to save himself the trouble of taking out his light saber. Likewise, Palpatine himself used lightning with no apparent problem in the Return of the Jedi. Yet Palpatine was permanently disfigured by using lightning in Episode 3.

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1. Grievous was not a sith. He was not able to use the force, only trained in the Jedi arts - mostly with regard to lightsaber fighting. My understanding is that he is a Jedi hunter more than anything else.

 

2. The emperor was always the head of the Empire. The official site indicates that Tarkin was the Imperial Governor of the Empire, and likely was a higher 'rank' than Vader. Vader is listed as 'one of the Emperor's most trusted servants'.

 

3. There are several thoughts about this topic.

 

4. Think of it like two wrestlers in a wrestling ring. If one is inside and the other outside trying to get in, the one in the ring clearly has the upper hand. Chances are, when the guy outside tries to get in, he's going to get an asss kicking.

 

5. Lots of thoughts for this one, too.