[SUW] Onside Kicking on KO after penalty.

[boyst]

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

Edited November 23, 2022 by boyst

[KellyToTasker]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

Hopefully you’re not down 7-10 points against a poor offense. Just scoring a touchdown, you should have momentum. I don’t see the need in giving it right back to the other team, should they get a first down or two. Onside kicks are so difficult to win. I’d only do it in desperation time, not with plenty of time on the clock. 

[NoSaint]

2 minutes ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

my gut has always said that. Or even some 15-20 yard surprise bounce high in the air “Hail Mary” to field gets you pretty close to the touchback result but with high upside of someone mishandling it or your team snagging it 

[phypon]

5 minutes ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

Good question.  I wonder if the rules allow an onside after a penalty in this situation.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

 

Because (at least now), the odds of recovering one are so small.

[Just Jack]

What if your kicker can get it through the goal posts on a kickoff?  Should it count for 3 points? Some arena league football will give you 1-2 points for that. 

[Ya Digg?]

I always wonder why so many teams just blast the kickoff through the endzone in that situation. Maybe not going for the onside, but why not just kick it high and short? The chargers did it the other night and (luckily) the Chiefs player caught it and went out of bounds, but it seems like such a waste to just have them kick it through the endzone. I like that the Bills normally have Bass kick it high and short, seems like a no brainer when you kick off from The 50 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

54 minutes ago, boyst said:

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

McDermott is aggressive enough. Don't give him any ideas.

 

I'd be afraid of any momentum swings with a play like that. And if the defense is good, you can continue to play the field position game if you get a 3 and out when they start at the 25. If the other offense starts at their 40 you could find yourself backed up inside your own 10 yard line.

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

This is an interesting thought and have never contemplated.  I agree with the concept.  I’d assume once a team does this once or twice, other teams will start to catch on and decline enforcement of the penalty on the ensuing kick-off.  Might be able to give this a shot once or twice, though.

[Andrew Son]

Often times in this scenario the kicking team attempts to pop-up the kick short of the goal line and play coverage.  I think this is the best play since the coverage unit gets such an advantage 

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

my gut has always said that. Or even some 15-20 yard surprise bounce high in the air “Hail Mary” to field gets you pretty close to the touchback result but with high upside of someone mishandling it or your team snagging it 

I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball).  Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this?

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

13 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

This is an interesting thought and have never contemplated.  I agree with the concept.  I’d assume once a team does this once or twice, other teams will start to catch on and decline enforcement of the penalty on the ensuing kick-off.  Might be able to give this a shot once or twice, though.

 

6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball).  Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this?

All of a sudden, Belichick is calling for extra secret special teams practice sessions.  As some of the high school coaches of my generation did, "pull the cars up and shine their headlights on the field!"

[WhoTom]

36 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball).  Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this?

 

The returner could simply call a fair catch if he sees too many defenders approaching. We don't see it a lot, but you can fair catch a KO.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

 

If the old rules were still in effect, may see that happen. 

 

Likely so little data to review, but wonder too, in the situation you describe, does the defense tend to pull up more knowing how easy it is for team to kick out of end zone, so they are more looking for squib kick or short kick, but it over the heads of first line of defenders, etc.  Could be the receiving team is more in a natural position to defend the on-sides kick??

[WhoTom]

59 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

McDermott is aggressive enough. Don't give him any ideas.

 

Remember when people thought he was too conservative?

 

[SinceThe70s]

2 hours ago, boyst said:

SUW...

 

After a defense commits a 15 yard penalty on a touchdown or FG it moves the kickoff from the 35 to the 50. At this point you're guaranteed to kick it out of the end zone.

 

Why do teams never consider kicking an onside at this point? Field position would be at the 40 for the opposing team should they recover. A team with a good defense shouldn't fret over this, and the 15 yard difference on a touchback (25 yard line).

 

It would not be ideal in every game situation but if you are down 7-10 points against a poor offense it could make sense. So, should teams do it? 

 

I saw this in a HS football game last week - and actually called it as they were lining up. Seemed like a no brainer to me - but I think normal kickoff is from the 40. And of course one size doesn't fit all - have to consider things like the score, how far into the game, etc...

[Ethan in Cleveland]

I would fear a momentum shift just like if they got a big kickoff return.

That said many teams kick the ball very high and short because the kickoff team is 15 yards closer to the return guys. You have a good chance of pinning them well back of the 25 yard line. 

[Gugny]

WTF is SUW?

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

I always wonder why so many teams just blast the kickoff through the endzone in that situation. Maybe not going for the onside, but why not just kick it high and short? The chargers did it the other night and (luckily) the Chiefs player caught it and went out of bounds, but it seems like such a waste to just have them kick it through the endzone. I like that the Bills normally have Bass kick it high and short, seems like a no brainer when you kick off from The 50 

yup. 
 

or you line drive the hell out of it at some non hands team guy. If it bounces off his head, awesome. If not, it isn’t going to be a great return. 

53 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

I would fear a momentum shift just like if they got a big kickoff return.

That said many teams kick the ball very high and short because the kickoff team is 15 yards closer to the return guys. You have a good chance of pinning them well back of the 25 yard line. 

but is “I got the hall at the 35” a momentum shift?

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

I’ve always been curious about the ability of a kicker to put enough air under the kickoff, so that the kicking team has as much chance to get to the kickoff as the receiving team (essentially a jump ball).  Does anyone here know how much teams have ever played around with this?

 

1 hour ago, WhoTom said:

 

The returner could simply call a fair catch if he sees too many defenders approaching. We don't see it a lot, but you can fair catch a KO.

The technical term is "pooch kick."

 

The Bills attempted this in The Houston Comeback after it was 35-17.  Several Houston players called for a fair catch (I can't believe that was legal), but the swirling winds caused the ball to land on the field, which Houston recovered.

 

I think the optimal strategy for most of the game is this one:

2 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Often times in this scenario the kicking team attempts to pop-up the kick short of the goal line and play coverage.  I think this is the best play since the coverage unit gets such an advantage