McKenzie's Place in the Offense Going Forward

[OldTimer1960]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:51 PM, Arkady Renko said:

Fans seeing the result of chasing Beasley out of town now think the solution is chasing another player out of town. 

Beasley is not even in the league this year.  He was small and got older and injuries mounted.  He WAS really good at his job, but I don’t think he is good anymore.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

On 11/22/2022 at 12:51 PM, Arkady Renko said:

Fans seeing the result of chasing Beasley out of town now think the solution is chasing another player out of town. 

 

 No, no we're not. The Beasley you're referring didn't exist in the 2nd half of last season and hasn't returned. His numbers were down drastically the last 10 or so last year(counting playoffs).

 

 In a game where we scored a td on every possession he caught 1 pass, on 1 target. And that didn't come until late in the 3rd, in a game that was all but over long before then.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

14 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Neither of those things are clear to me. Shakir in his limited reps is having trouble creating clear separation from defenders and I think James Cook needs more touches, but for me those come as a running back in the running game and, if they can get it going, the designed running back screen game (something we have been bad at almost since Chan Gailey was here!)

Gunner, it is not much of an ask for this offensive coaching staff to get screen touches for Cook, Singletary and especially Hines.

 

Sorry, I don’t buy Dorsey’s excuses about “game flow” and not “forcing”anything. 
 

Nobody is saying make Hines the focal point of the offense. But frankly this team has done a poor (very) job of onboarding Hines. 
 

McDermott is laughable still talking about #20 getting acclimated, but then praising how smart and professional he is. 
 

He’s a 4+ year veteran. It should not be a scientific experiment to find dump off routes for running backs.

 

There are 7 games left and Cook is barely around the 8-10 touch mark now. Shakir still has zero role, Hines has 1-net yard on offense.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[Chicken Boo]

This staff, for some reason, sees players shine then doesn't utilize them.  It's troubling.  

 

I mean, they all saw what we saw from Shakir, right? 

 

James Cook had better see 10+ touches tomorrow.  

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

16 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

This staff, for some reason, sees players shine then doesn't utilize them.  It's troubling.  

 

I mean, they all saw what we saw from Shakir, right? 

 

James Cook had better see 10+ touches tomorrow.  

 

 

They are just so slow.

 

Jeff Wilson goes to Miami and he’s catching passes for TDs 4-days later. And yes I know he “knows” the system.

 

McCaffrey is throwing passes a week after arriving.

 

Our HC has identified Hines main skill as a returner and they can’t figure out how to hand him the ball apparently. 
 

For Cook it was 107-step plan for them to figure out that their 2nd Round draft pick from NC Georgia is an effective runner, after being told all summer about how they were going to move him all over the formation and put him in the slot. None of that has happened.

 

The creativity is poor. Allen and Diggs greatness is keeping the Bills at 28 ppg, but Dorsey is a disappointment and McDermott? He outthinks himself with “too much on his plate” statements. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

This staff, for some reason, sees players shine then doesn't utilize them.  It's troubling.  

 

I mean, they all saw what we saw from Shakir, right? 

 

James Cook had better see 10+ touches tomorrow.  

 

 

They tell us they watch the tape.

 

Shakir goes up in between three defenders and comes down with the ball. 
 

He catches a TD pass on an underthrown ball from Allen.

 

Translation? He never sees a ball down the middle of the field since.

 

He was good enough to trust in the 4th-quarter against Baltimore, but not trust worthy against Cleveland with a 2-score lead.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[BananaB]

6 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

This staff, for some reason, sees players shine then doesn't utilize them.  It's troubling.  

 

I mean, they all saw what we saw from Shakir, right? 

 

James Cook had better see 10+ touches tomorrow.  

 

 

Really it doesn’t matter what Shakir has done and more of what McKenzie isn’t doing. For 3 years Beas was a safety net for Allen and right now he needs someone who can be that guy. McKenzie definitely ain’t it. He’s been sitting behind Beas for 3 years, at this point he should be getting the job done. 

[DCofNC]

I see his future in NYG colors, Dabs hold use him, Dorsey seems to think he’s useless.. to that end, McKenzie has nothing to disprove that.

[Spiderweb]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:41 AM, fan_in_tx said:

I would add that we are not getting the production from McKenzie, that we got from our former slot receiver who I shall not name due to the political leanings of this board.  Either it is the play calling or simply McKenzie can't get open in the slot not sure which is the cause. 

Extremely few, if any, threw shade at Bease for his production. You missed the point with Bease it appears.

[Beck Water]

5 hours ago, frostbitmic said:

It would be fun seeing what they could come up with having Hines and Cook in the backfield together.

 

Dorsey: "Hold my Beer"

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/ken-dorsey-watch-bills-pony-package-worked-vs-browns/article_ec4da624-69e3-11ed-a126-3fe5b2e5b27e.html

 

Quote

The Bills used bigger personnel groups a lot more against Cleveland, and it worked in exploiting the Browns’ run defense. The Bills used two running backs on 22 plays overall, the most in any game this season.

On eight of those 22 plays, the Bills paired James Cook and Nyhiem Hines on the field at the same time in what some teams call the “Pony” package. One of those Pony plays produced an 8-yard loss on an end around to Hines. But six other runs with Cook and Hines on the field netted 50 yards, an 8.3-yard average.

 

[Beck Water]

On 11/22/2022 at 6:37 PM, Beck Water said:

 

McKenzie's snap count did decrease last week against the Browns, from ~50-60% to 40%.  As far as I can tell, that's because the Bills gave more snaps to Quintin Morris (from ~20% to 42% of the snaps) and to Reggie Gilliam (from ~15% to 25% of the snaps), not because they gave more snaps to another WR.

 

In fact, Diggs snaps also decreased from ~84% to 66%, which leads me to believe it was due to a more run-focused game plan using heavier sets.

 

Just crunched some numbers from personnel set info in a Mark Gaughan TBN article on the Bills offense in the Browns game and how it differed.

I was looking for data on Bills usual personnel usage, but as for the 2 previous years, they do spend most of their time in 11 sets (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR).

 

As I thought, Diggs and McKenzie's snaps declined vs the Browns because in fact, the personnel usage differed dramatically:

11 set (3 WR) 27 of 62 plays or 43%

12 set (2 WR, 1 RB 2 TE) 10 of 62 plays (note: this includes 2 plays with an extra OLman as a TE) 16% - Bills have used this very sparingly in 2022

21 set (2 WR, 2 RB 1 TE) 15 of 62 plays or 24% (note: this includes 2 RB such as Hines and Cook)

22 set (2 WR, 2 RB, 2 TE) 7 of 62 plays or 12% (note: this includes 4 plays with an extra OLman as a TE)

 

There you have it, folks lusting to see less of McKenzie on the field.  You did just that last week - in fact, his snaps were cut in half, from 52 to 26.  But it wasn't to give more snaps to Shakir. 

 

It was to put an extra RB, TE, or OLman on the field.

 

People mentioned the run game improving when Bates took over at LG last season, but actually, the run game seemed to improve (to my eyes) before that, when the Bills started using more heavy sets with an RB and a FB, or with an extra OLman.

 

So if McDermott is serious about wanting more run threat, this may be a harbringer of things to come.

 

I will add this.  Knox had about the same, or perhaps a couple fewer, snaps than he usually sees.  But he had 7 receptions on 7 targets.  I believe on all but one of them, he was the outlet receiver and managed to get some good YAC because he had 70 yds on those 7 targets and most were near the LOS.  If we continue to see this usage of Knox, I think most will feel he has earned his contract, and I think it will help the offense by shifting some of the attention off Diggs and Davis.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Beck Water

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Gunner, it is not much of an ask for this offensive coaching staff to get screen touches for Cook, Singletary and especially Hines.

 

Sorry, I don’t buy Dorsey’s excuses about “game flow” and not “forcing”anything. 
 

Nobody is saying make Hines the focal point of the offense. But frankly this team has done a poor (very) job of onboarding Hines. 
 

McDermott is laughable still talking about #20 getting acclimated, but then praising how smart and professional he is. 
 

He’s a 4+ year veteran. It should not be a scientific experiment to find dump off routes for running backs.

 

There are 7 games left and Cook is barely around the 8-10 touch mark now. Shakir still has zero role, Hines has 1-net yard on offense.

 

 

I didn't say it was. I just said we have been bad at creating a running back screen game since Chan was here. 

[John from Riverside]

The Beasley that we loved doesn’t exist anymore. He got old.

[bmur66]

He’s no Beasley. I wouldn’t name my dog after him.

[Warriorspikes51]

Thanks Isaiah!!

[HoofHearted]

On 11/23/2022 at 10:59 AM, Beck Water said:

 

But Dorsey doesn't scheme guys open!  I heard it ...somewhere....

 

Diggs is our best WR anywhere on the field, and it isn't close.  That said, I don't think he'd be happy being full-time in the slot, and I think it's a matchup nightmare for other teams when he's moved around the field.  I don't think Diggs wants the full-time punishment a full-time slot receiver takes. 

 

And frankly, we'd have to go a long way to replace him outside as well.  If we're looking for an outside receiver that's as exceptional as Diggs can be, is that really easier to find and develop than an exceptional slot guy?

 

I think Shakir can potentially learn to play twitchier in the slot.  I could be wrong of course, but it's my impression that a lot of what makes a guy a top slot against zone is mental processing speed added to "enough" natural athleticism.  When I can watch Shakir on film, he seems to me to be playing like a guy who's still thinking.

 

I hope so. Some folks express skepticism about Shakir as an outside WR.  I take it you're not one of those who have concern about Shakir and his 29" arms fending off the 31-33" armed corners like Sauce Gardner, and I would be interested in why, if you care to share.  Body control seems like it's only part of the equation, to me.

Shakir is sure handed and like I said, body control. Not only is that important on 50/50 balls but he understands positioning and leverage and, despite his size, is one of our most physical receivers. He’s not gonna create separation from twitch - he’s a one break and go receiver which plays well with what we do outside.

[34-78-83]

Who woulda known? McKenzie saved their bacon today in terms of consistency

[Simon]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:49 PM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Gunner, it is not much of an ask for this offensive coaching staff to get screen touches for Cook, Singletary and especially Hines.

The reason the Bills don't (can't) run a screen game has nothing to do with their backs, their OL is just not built for it.

[Solomon Grundy]

7 hours ago, 34-78-83 said:

Who woulda known? McKenzie saved their bacon today in terms of consistency

TODAY, is the key, operative word!! Needs consistency, WEEKLY. 

Edited November 25, 2022 by Solomon Grundy

[34-78-83]

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

TODAY, is the key, operative word!! Needs consistency, WEEKLY. 

I’m as surprised as the next guy…. Pleasantly. That’s an L without his efforts yesterday

[SCBills]

9 hours ago, Simon said:

The reason the Bills don't (can't) run a screen game has nothing to do with their backs, their OL is just not built for it.

Which is crazy because we have one of the most athletic OL’s in the league. 
 

But yea .. I’d prefer to not see another wasted down where Allen just has to throw it into the turf again.