Poorly constructed roster

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

Hines looks amazing.  Cook is looking better - seems motivated, which may be, in part, the result of signing Hines.  Will be interesting to see the vibe here after we kill the Lions Thursday.

 

I'm telling ya if we just crank the dial up a little with Hines, Cook & Shakir we'd be seeing a very versatile offense overly reliant on Diggs/Davis.

[No_Matter_What]

22 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Exactly. I said all off-season we would be in trouble if something happened to Diggs or Davis. That was assuming Davis would prove himself as a true 2 in the first place. He hasn’t. He’s a very good 4 or 5 and there is nothing wrong with that.

There are lot of bad takes in this thread but man you took it to a whole new level.

 

Davis is 20th among ALL receivers in yards (19th in yards/game), which means he produces MORE than 15 WR1 of other NFL teams. And that includes 2 games (Mia, Bal) where he was clearly not ok and had 31 yards combined. He has also 5 TDs which means shared 11th-18th position.

 

And you call him "a very good 4 or 5". No wonder that you deem this roster badly constructed.

Edited November 22, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[billsfan_34]

2 hours ago, SCBills said:

Hodgins was never the answer.  IMO. 
 

The draft board fell horribly for us, in terms of WR.. but if Jake Kumerow is outside WR3 on a pass heavy team, that’s a problem. 
 

We had issues coming into the season, only exacerbated by the non-production from the slot position thus far. 

We can agree to disagree. If Gabe gets back to playing how he was at the end of last season, and Shakir develops more then we will be ok. Certainly we cannot afford anymore injuries.

[todd]

10 hours ago, T master said:

IMHO i feel moving on from Beasley was a very big mistake for Josh in particular he was the safety blanket that 99.9 times out of 100 would move the chains but because some at 1 Bills dr were more worried about team perception in the NFL than having some one they could always depend on to fight in any situation the Bills are where they are with that position .

 

But they have tried to reinforce that position with others that are either hurt or still learning the game so with these new pieces that will take time for Josh to develop what he has lost by the moves that have been made & i think we are seeing that on the field .

 

But because those given 100 receptions a year that were lost & were mostly the receptions that were the ones that kept drives alive to keep the offense on the field we are seeing our offense struggle in games where it use to be easy .

 

It's the same thing when chemistry is interrupted . I remember certain bands that would lose 1 member just 1 and the bands future turned completely in a different direction !

 

Look at Zeplin with out Bonham, Molly Hatchet with out Danny Joe, then there are teams that lose 1 player & the change takes time to find another to replace the production so even though thoughts are usually that its easy to replace certain parts or pieces it can be proven that in some cases it is not as easy as it was thought to be .

 

I think they miss the beasley of 2019 and maybe 2020. The beasley of 2021 was in quite the decline, and he himself realized it when he retired from the Bucs after a few weeks. But to your point, I think they do miss his ability to find a spot in a zone and be a reliable outlet for Josh. I think Crowder would have been OK eventually. But they certainly miss a reliable slot WR, and McKenzie is not filling that role.

 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

you all realize we're still the odds on favorite to win the SB at +400 on most books, right?  I wouldn't bet those odds  (and I hop[e they get no higher) but they ain't stupid.  Seem to believe more than many fans.

[SaulGoodman]

On 11/21/2022 at 9:15 AM, Niagara Dude said:

 

 

Josh needs to be surrounded with better WR's  just like Mahomes has

 

 

As a KC fan, this notion seems ridiculous to me. 
 

Kelce, of course, is a great TE, but KC is very thin at WR right now. The WR who played the most snaps in LA was Justin Watson. Most of you had probably never heard his name before this year. He didn’t even play when he was with Tampa. 2nd most snaps went to MVS, and then Skyy Moore (who had barely been involved in the offense this year and has had a bit of a rough transition to the NFL). The rest of the WR corps were practice squad guys. 
 

Even when healthy, KC’s WR corps is average at best, and obviously way below the Bills WRs. 
 

[cwater10]

On 11/21/2022 at 10:35 AM, Eastport bills said:

The reference to KC is sadly on the money. They’re proactive and have filled holes beautifully. It doesn’t hurt to have number 15 either . 

And this so called flawed roster has beaten KC and their beautifully constructed roster along with number 15 each of the past two regular seasons.  And let's be honest, The Bills had them beaten in the playoffs as well, save for a 13 second brain cramp.  It didn't hurt to have number 17 in any of those 3 games.  You can't have everything in a salary cap league.  Give Beane his due credit.  KC is a very good team.  So is Buffalo.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

As a KC fan, this notion seems ridiculous to me. 
 

Kelce, of course, is a great TE, but KC is very thin at WR right now. The WR who played the most snaps in LA was Justin Watson. Most of you had probably never heard his name before this year. He didn’t even play when he was with Tampa. 2nd most snaps went to MVS, and then Skyy Moore (who had barely been involved in the offense this year and has had a bit of a rough transition to the NFL). The rest of the WR corps were practice squad guys. 
 

Even when healthy, KC’s WR corps is average at best, and obviously way below the Bills WRs. 
 

He wasn’t talking about this ONE game….

 

so defensive

8 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

There are lot of bad takes in this thread but man you took it to a whole new level.

 

Davis is 20th among ALL receivers in yards (19th in yards/game), which means he produces MORE than 15 WR1 of other NFL teams. And that includes 2 games (Mia, Bal) where he was clearly not ok and had 31 yards combined. He has also 5 TDs which means shared 11th-18th position.

 

And you call him "a very good 4 or 5". No wonder that you deem this roster badly constructed.

“I said this”.  “I said that”  Beane should’ve listened to me.  Me me me me.  Look at me knowing more than Beane!  
 

gabe Davis is a very good 4 or 5….. lol.

 

So is Diggs.  And Tyreek Hill.  Hell, Jerry Rice may have been the best Wr4 or 5 ever.  

[SaulGoodman]

18 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He wasn’t talking about this ONE game….

 

so defensive

“I said this”.  “I said that”  Beane should’ve listened to me.  Me me me me.  Look at me knowing more than Beane!  
 

gabe Davis is a very good 4 or 5….. lol.

 

So is Diggs.  And Tyreek Hill.  Hell, Jerry Rice may have been the best Wr4 or 5 ever.  

But the idea that KC has a plethora of good WRs is pretty silly. None of them are elite (maybe Toney has potential, but it’ll take awhile). I think Smith-Schuster is the only one you can argue is even above average right now. They do have more depth than last year, but that’s because they had no depth behind Hill. 
 

Reid/Mahomes just find a way to make it work with what they’re dealt. Last year, Kelce was out and Hill very limited vs Pittsburgh, and it was one of their best offensive games of the year. Top receivers were Byron Pringle, Darrel Williams, Derrick Gore and Hardman. 

[GunnerBill]

10 hours ago, Trock said:

Letting Bease walk was a huge mistake.  Lil dummy isn’t even close to same production. Bease was Joshs check down option for hot routes.  It’s unfortunate the Bills and fans pitch forked him out of Buffalo. Maybe we can roll out the red carpet and win him back. 

 

Beas was washed, couldn't get on the field in Tampa and retired. We miss the Beas of two years ago for sure. That guy isn't there anymore.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

But the idea that KC has a plethora of good WRs is pretty silly. None of them are elite (maybe Toney has potential, but it’ll take awhile). I think Smith-Schuster is the only one you can argue is even above average right now. They do have more depth than last year, but that’s because they had no depth behind Hill. 
 

Reid/Mahomes just find a way to make it work with what they’re dealt. Last year, Kelce was out and Hill very limited vs Pittsburgh, and it was one of their best offensive games of the year. Top receivers were Byron Pringle, Darrel Williams, Derrick Gore and Hardman. 

 

I think KC is deeper than Buffalo at receiver. But not as top end talented. The difference is really Stefon Diggs. 

[Scott7975]

On 11/21/2022 at 6:20 PM, FilthyBeast said:

 

This is a perfect summary but unlike last year it's not even a given that this team rebounds and wins the division, let alone make the playoffs this year. Best case secure #2 seed again shades of 2020 to at least avoid the inevitable until the AFCCG but worse case could be a very quick one and done as a WC or not even making it in altogether because of how ridiculously strong the conference is this year.

 

I will say this though, should the season end for the 3rd straight year at the hands of KC, you really have to wonder what the Pegulas mindset is going to be knowing the current window is only open for so long. Do you stand pat with Beane and McDermott hoping to get lucky in terms of the Chiefs ever suffering tons of injuries or every having a semblance of a down year? Or do you realize the obvious that they have taken this franchise as far as it will ever go under their watch and it's time to thank them graciously for the contributions but move on.

 

 

 

I mean you say this exact same thing every season.  

[Billsfan1972]

I thought the rule here is you are not allowed to post anything negative about the Bills, yesterday a thread got mysteriously deleted that questioned the Bills, but this thread still is up.

 

Must be the title is just ambiguous enough.

 

Right now the Bills are in their mid-season lull (like last year).  Three losses all year by a total of 8 points and shockingly all three times the Bills had the ball with a chance to win.  

 

Yes injuries, a defense that has been shaky and Allen just out of sorts the last little while.  

 

7 games (and then the playoffs) to correct it.

[Pete]

who is E.J.?  Have you watched the Bills this year?    For someone that did such thorough research about some illogical "Beane did a bad job constructing roster" rant- at least get the names right of the players you choose to bash

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

You could poll every single NFL executive, coach and player and not find one who would describe the 2022 Bills' roster as "poorly constructed".  I swear, nobody hates this team more than its fans.

[RyanC883]

On 11/21/2022 at 10:34 AM, Big Turk said:

 

It's amazing that people don't realize that literally every team in the league goes through these stretches and it's usually right around this time every year...somehow in their mind the Bills are the only team who goes through them.  Now the team is terrible being 7-3 and losing 3 games by a combined 8 points.  They will be fine. Too much hand wringing about what will turn out to be nothing in the end.

 

Complaining about an offense that has scored 27, 17, 30 and 31 points in the last month to the degree many are is kinda mind boggling to me. It's like they are scoring 13 points a game or something. Got news for ya...there are 25+ teams that would sign up to have our "roster issues" right now and would probably fight each other for the right to do so.

 

good point on the points, but we have JA and continually stall in scoring position.  Not sure if its a personnel issue, coaching issue or what.  Way to many good drives or starting position that end in fg’s.  

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

But the idea that KC has a plethora of good WRs is pretty silly. None of them are elite (maybe Toney has potential, but it’ll take awhile). I think Smith-Schuster is the only one you can argue is even above average right now. They do have more depth than last year, but that’s because they had no depth behind Hill. 
 

Reid/Mahomes just find a way to make it work with what they’re dealt. Last year, Kelce was out and Hill very limited vs Pittsburgh, and it was one of their best offensive games of the year. Top receivers were Byron Pringle, Darrel Williams, Derrick Gore and Hardman. 

Kelce is elite.  I’m going to go out on a limb and say the guy you quoted was including Kelce as a WR.  He’s your #1-  take out both of our elite pass catchers, Diggs and Kelce, and KC has a much deeper and talented stable of receivers 
 

The rest of the guys- ALL are talented and better than all of our WRs not named Diggs and Davis- 

juju- is a good WR (2nd rd)

Hardman- is a big play playmaker.

Toney- was the 20th pick in the draft.

Moore- rookiewas a 2nd pick 

MVS- you. paid him 10M per 

watson-  he’s decent- much better WR then our 5th WR. 

 

5 talented WRs + Kelce 

 

the guys after Diggs and Davis 

- Mckenzie - 75% of Billsmfans don’t want to ever see him play again. 
-shakir-  can’t even beat out mckenzie but he has some upside.  

-kumerow- made the team as a ST teamer and is likely out for the year. 
-knox- our TE-  he’s better than average.  Has less than 1/2 the catches Kelce does, 1/3 of the yards and >1/5 of the TDs. 
 

the overall ability and depth of KCs WRs after each of our All Pro reciever.  BLOWS AWAY the Bills.  It’s not even close.  But you can be defensive if you like.  
 

same can be said for OL…..where we’ve invested next to nothing in protecting him and KC has done everything in its power to protect Mahomes.  
 

 

 

 

[Eastport bills]

9 hours ago, cwater10 said:

And this so called flawed roster has beaten KC and their beautifully constructed roster along with number 15 each of the past two regular seasons.  And let's be honest, The Bills had them beaten in the playoffs as well, save for a 13 second brain cramp.  It didn't hurt to have number 17 in any of those 3 games.  You can't have everything in a salary cap league.  Give Beane his due credit.  KC is a very good team.  So is Buffalo.  

Stop talking about the roster that beat KC earlier. My point is that our depth players in the secondary are inexperienced and have been bad against good receivers and whenEdmunds, Milano or Poyer don’t play we can’t stop the run .The team that played KC last year had Hyde, Poyer, Wallace, Beasley, Sanders. When Milano or Edmunds miss time I have no faith in our defense. The receiving corp hasn’t shown we have replaced Beasley adequately and our O-line lacks quality depth. If you think this team goes into KC as constructed and wins in the playoffs you’re not objective.

[cwater10]

5 hours ago, Eastport bills said:

The team that played KC last year had Hyde, Poyer, Wallace, Beasley, Sanders. 

And the Bills team that beat KC this year had none of them except Poyer, who drove himself to the game to protect an injured lung.  They were also missing White in this year's win.  If you think this team has no secondary depth, I think you have a jaundiced view.  Their secondary depth been a nice surprise and is a primary reason their Super Bowl dreams remain alive.  Benford, Elam, Hamlin and Dane Jackson have all played above expectations.  Wallace, who you have cited for being a missed contributor was a primary culprit in 13 seconds.  He was not alone, but he played a major role in that debacle.  Would you have felt better if they had spent 5 million to retain him?  Benford, Jackson and Elam are all upgrades over Wallace in my opinion.  

 

And this is a thread regarding roster composition.  Did you expect to be without 2 All Pro Safety for all (Hyde) and half (Power) of the season?  How much salary cap were you ready to devote to that longshot?  Did you expect Tre White to still be on the sideline heading into week 12?  I didn't.  And then they were left without Dane Jackson for a 2 and a half games after he was nearly decapitated by a teammate.  What they do have in depth, has performed as well as anyone could reasonably hope for in that doomsday scenario.  

 

And of course your confidence slides when either or both of Buffalo's all star caliber linebackers are out.  Do you expect no drop-off?  Sorry but that is not a flawed roster, nor does it indicate lack of depth.  That is a horrible run of injuries that would stretch any team's defensive depth.  Let the season play out.  What was it Marv used to say about adversity?  "Adversity does not build character, it reveals character."  This team, this roster has an abundance of talent, depth and character.

Edited November 23, 2022 by cwater10

[Scott7975]

5 hours ago, NewEra said:

Kelce is elite.  I’m going to go out on a limb and say the guy you quoted was including Kelce as a WR.  He’s your #1-  take out both of our elite pass catchers, Diggs and Kelce, and KC has a much deeper and talented stable of receivers 
 

The rest of the guys- ALL are talented and better than all of our WRs not named Diggs and Davis- 

juju- is a good WR (2nd rd)

Hardman- is a big play playmaker.

Toney- was the 20th pick in the draft.

Moore- rookiewas a 2nd pick 

MVS- you. paid him 10M per 

watson-  he’s decent- much better WR then our 5th WR. 

 

5 talented WRs + Kelce 

 

the guys after Diggs and Davis 

- Mckenzie - 75% of Billsmfans don’t want to ever see him play again. 
-shakir-  can’t even beat out mckenzie but he has some upside.  

-kumerow- made the team as a ST teamer and is likely out for the year. 
-knox- our TE-  he’s better than average.  Has less than 1/2 the catches Kelce does, 1/3 of the yards and >1/5 of the TDs. 
 

the overall ability and depth of KCs WRs after each of our All Pro reciever.  BLOWS AWAY the Bills.  It’s not even close.  But you can be defensive if you like.  
 

same can be said for OL…..where we’ve invested next to nothing in protecting him and KC has done everything in its power to protect Mahomes.  
 

 

 

 

 

I agree with you but I also think part of that is Reids offense.  He is amazing at scheming guys open and keeping the offense fresh.  I dont think he would have Davis running what amounts to basically just streaks if you look at his catch chart.