Poorly constructed roster

[LABILLBACKER]

7 hours ago, Gugny said:

Teams that go 7-3, have the number one offense in the NFL and a top 5 defense in the NFL SUCK!!!!

Stop with this top 5 defense nonsense. We had a top 5 defense in 20 & 21. Alot of good that did us stopping KC.  Just pick a side (offense) and surround Josh with amazing olineman and weapons. Enough wasting high defensive picks on guys like Epenesa,  Basham etc. 

[whorlnut]

34 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

The Bills had a few questions going into the season (just like every team in the NFL).  Especially on offense.

Most of us didn't worry too much, because they all seemed like easy lay-ups.  But just like typical Bills luck, almost every gamble we made on that side of the ball has totally backfired:

 

• Could Ken Dorsey step into the offensive coordinator role, and replace Brian Daboll?  Since Dorsey had been on the staff for three seasons, and was handpicked by Josh Allen, most of us figured he would be fine.  Maybe even an upgrade.  If things got rough, all he needed to do was pull formations/plays from last season.  Things looked good for a 2-3 games, and has been horribly inconsistent ever since.  Our Red Zone performance is embarrassing.

• Could Gabe Davis take over the #2 receiver role?  After two seasons of stellar play off the bench, and absolutely torching the Chiefs in the playoffs, many of us saw him as our version of "Reggie Wayne" or Torry Holt" in a record-breaking scoring attack.  Instead, Davis has struggled badly with drops.  Last week, the Vikings said he can only run three routes and is easy to defend.

• Could someone step into the slot role and replace Cole Beasley's production?  Another slam-dunk, right?  Beasley played hurt most of last season, and his head/heart didn't seem to be in it anymore.  Jameson Crowder was a somewhat proven vet.  Khalil Shakir was a promising rookie.  And Isaiah McKenzie beat them both in training camp.  At least one should work out.  Crowder got hurt.  McKenzie is good for one dumb mistake per game.  And Shakir is invisible.

• Could the return of Aaron Kromer and addition of Rodger Saffold help upgrade the O-Line, and give us a strong pivot with the running game?  For the most part, the answer has been no (hopefully Sunday was a positive sign).  This team only seems to have consistency running with Allen, or when the defense is expecting the pass.

 

Yes.  The additions to our D-Line have been great, and we have two very promising rookies at cornerback.

But that improvement has been totally offset by injuries.  Micah Hyde gone for the season after Week 2.  Tre White still not back after 10 games.  Almost every starter has missed at least 1-2 games, if not more.

 

This season has been especially frustrating to watch... when you consider the Kansas City Chiefs traded away one of their best players and haven't missed him in the slightest.  

 

Well said. The bottom line is we didn’t do enough on offense this past offseason. I honestly think the plan was to bolster the defense (McD) and hope Allen could elevate everyone on the offense. Well…that’s proven to be a huge mistake. Our line isn’t very good and outside of Diggs, we can use upgrades everywhere. Davis is a solid 3 or 4, but he isn’t a 2. That experiment has backfired. The resigning of McKenzie pissed me off at the time it happened and it still does. Saffold to a one year deal and then don’t bring in a rookie to learn and take over last year?  Not good enough. 

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So you ask when they stunk for a long period of time then reference when they were good 23 years ago… 😂 

 

 

 

 

They were mediocre for 17 years......which was 6 years ago...........but their starters weren't worse than "other teams backups".     

[Gugny]

10 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Stop with this top 5 defense nonsense. We had a top 5 defense in 20 & 21. Alot of good that did us stopping KC.  Just pick a side (offense) and surround Josh with amazing olineman and weapons. Enough wasting high defensive picks on guys like Epenesa,  Basham etc. 

 

17.4 points per game this season, which is 4th in the league.  The team with the most points wins the game at the end.

 

I don't give a rat's ass about how many rushing yards or passing yards they give up.  Those yards = ZERO points.

 

They give up fewer points than 28 teams in the NFL.

 

That's a top 5 defense.

 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Gugny

[FilthyBeast]

20 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

To be fair, most of us came into the season expecting the Bills to win the Super Bowl.  THIS YEAR.  

Anything less is going to be considered a massive disappointment and utter failure of a season.  Regardless of injuries or adversity.

Looking inferior to the team who has eliminated us two straight seasons SHOULD upset fans, and sound warning bells.

 

Just one month ago (at the bye), we were in the driver's seat for the #1 seed in the AFC.  Just defeated the Chiefs in Arrowhead.  Boasted the best record in the conference AND had tiebreakers over every other division winner.  In the course of only three games, the Bills managed to lose control of the #1 seed AND their own division.  The AFC East still seems winnable, since we still have another game against Miami.  But homefield in the playoffs already looks long-gone. 

 

Most of us aren't upset because we honestly feel the Bills stink or that they will miss the playoffs.  Most of us are upset, because this team is repeating the same pattern as in 2021.  Bad luck.  Blowing winnable games.  Losing to inferior teams.  Letting homefield slip away.  And it all culminating in another crushing playoff defeat in Kansas City.

 

 

This is a perfect summary but unlike last year it's not even a given that this team rebounds and wins the division, let alone make the playoffs this year. Best case secure #2 seed again shades of 2020 to at least avoid the inevitable until the AFCCG but worse case could be a very quick one and done as a WC or not even making it in altogether because of how ridiculously strong the conference is this year.

 

I will say this though, should the season end for the 3rd straight year at the hands of KC, you really have to wonder what the Pegulas mindset is going to be knowing the current window is only open for so long. Do you stand pat with Beane and McDermott hoping to get lucky in terms of the Chiefs ever suffering tons of injuries or every having a semblance of a down year? Or do you realize the obvious that they have taken this franchise as far as it will ever go under their watch and it's time to thank them graciously for the contributions but move on.

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

15 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

They were mediocre for 17 years......which was 6 years ago...........but their starters weren't worse than "other teams backups".     

You’re certainly entitled to your opinion as I am mine. There was a consistent  pattern of other teams back ups signing in Buffalo and sub-planting the starters. It wasn’t particularly fun, and 17 years is a long time. 
 

and the real point here is those handwringing at the current state need to understand these are good times. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Marvin]

I was hoping that this would be something about the need for a better OL to give receivers more time to get open and to protect JA17.  Oh, well.

[SCBills]

19 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Well said. The bottom line is we didn’t do enough on offense this past offseason. I honestly think the plan was to bolster the defense (McD) and hope Allen could elevate everyone on the offense. Well…that’s proven to be a huge mistake. Our line isn’t very good and outside of Diggs, we can use upgrades everywhere. Davis is a solid 3 or 4, but he isn’t a 2. That experiment has backfired. The resigning of McKenzie pissed me off at the time it happened and it still does. Saffold to a one year deal and then don’t bring in a rookie to learn and take over last year?  Not good enough. 

I think our OL is ok.  Truth is, most teams don’t have strong OL’s.  Chiefs spent, Chargers spent, Bengals spent … are there lines any better than ours?  
 

I think James Cook is legit, and it’s about time the staff started using him.   Singletary is solid.  We traded for Hines. It’s up to Dorsey to use them correctly, but that’s a talented backfield. 
 

Knox is much better than this offense has given him credit for.  Let’s hope yesterday was a start.  
 

WR’s… swing and a miss.   Beane bet on Davis to become a high level 2, McKenzie to be a contributor and Crowder to be a rotational slot / slot insurance.   0 for 3 there, at least so far.   Nevermind the fact we came into the season short handed at the position with no outside WR3 in a pass heavy offense.   Just bizarre asset allocation with this unit. 
 

Edited November 21, 2022 by SCBills

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think our OL is ok.  Truth is, most teams don’t have strong OL’s.  Chiefs spent, Chargers spent, Bengals spent … are there lines any better than ours?  
 

I think James Cook is legit, and it’s about time the staff started using him.   Singletary is solid.  We traded for Hines. It’s up to Dorsey to use them correctly, but that’s a talented backfield. 
 

Knox is much better than this offense has given him credit for.  Let’s hope yesterday was a start.  
 

WR’s… swing and a miss.   Beane bet on Davis to become a high level 2, McKenzie to be a contributor and Crowder to be a rotational slot / slot insurance.   0 for 3 there, at least so far.   Nevermind the fact we came into the season short handed at the position with no outside WR3 in a pass heavy offense.   Just bizarre asset allocation with this unit. 
 

Exactly. I said all off-season we would be in trouble if something happened to Diggs or Davis. That was assuming Davis would prove himself as a true 2 in the first place. He hasn’t. He’s a very good 4 or 5 and there is nothing wrong with that.
 

But that’s what’s bizarre. Beane and McD preach “competition” but pretty much handed the job to Davis. That has turned into a big mistake. We need at least one stud WR this off-season to compete and probably take over after next season. 

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

I was hoping that this would be something about the need for a better OL to give receivers more time to get open and to protect JA17.  Oh, well.

Our WRs have time to get open. They just dont run good routes except for Diggs. This is the issue with this thread…too many of you fail to acknowledge the deficiencies in our overall talent at WR. It’s like you choose to be blind to it. 

[Marvin]

4 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

 

Our WRs have time to get open. They just dont run good routes except for Diggs. This is the issue with this thread…too many of you fail to acknowledge the deficiencies in our overall talent at WR. It’s like you choose to be blind to it. 

I am of the philosophy that a better line will help the receivers we do have get open.

 

I will not debate you about the quality of the WR; it is not as good as it could be -- and teams know it because they bracket or straight-up double-cover Diggs on most plays.

 

IMHO, if we can man block on the OL, then the RBs and/or TEs will draw man coverage by LBs or find openings in the zone coverage if teams insist on doubling on Diggs.  Moreover, the opposing defences will then need to respect the run, which will help our lesser receivers find soft spots in zone coverage.

 

Just my preference.  Most fans are not as line-oriented as I am.

[whorlnut]

1 minute ago, Marvin said:

I am of the philosophy that a better line will help the receivers we do have get open.

 

I will not debate you about the quality of the WR; it is not as good as it could be -- and teams know it because they bracket or straight-up double-cover Diggs on most plays.

 

IMHO, if we can man block on the OL, then the RBs and/or TEs will draw man coverage by LBs or find openings in the zone coverage if teams insist on doubling on Diggs.  Moreover, the opposing defences will then need to respect the run, which will help our lesser receivers find soft spots in zone coverage.

 

Just my preference.  Most fans are not as line-oriented as I am.

Oh I absolutely think we need to improve the talent on the line. 

[Fallser]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

I cannot help you one of those low football IQ dudes that will be crying after they lose in second round of playoffs. Maybe you need to stop drinking the heavy booze before watching games ,  you would not sound so delusional

 

Dang,  you smoked me with that one, IMA have to go lay down with a cold compress to cool off after that one!

 

[Draconator]

1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Stop with this top 5 defense nonsense. We had a top 5 defense in 20 & 21. Alot of good that did us stopping KC.  Just pick a side (offense) and surround Josh with amazing olineman and weapons. Enough wasting high defensive picks on guys like Epenesa,  Basham etc. 

So no defense and outscore everyone 55 to 51. Got it. 

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, Draconator said:

So no defense and outscore everyone 55 to 51. Got it. 

Are you kidding?  We wouldnt need to draft or sign anyone on defense this off-season and STILL have more talent than most teams. The point is…we have spent enough on that side. Time to invest on offense. 

Edited November 22, 2022 by whorlnut

[Draconator]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

Are you kidding?  We would t need to draft or sign anyone on defense this off-season and STILL have more talent than most teams. The point is…we have spent enough on that side. Time to invest on offense. 

So the trade for Diggs didn't count. Got it. 

[whorlnut]

Just now, Draconator said:

So the trade for Diggs didn't count. Got it. 

Wow. One example. Good one. You got me…👍

[blacklabel]

Roster is built pretty well IMO. There are always going to be areas that teams have to go light on. Just the name of the game sometimes. 

 

Gabe Davis hasn't quite become the guy a lot of us thought he'd be. It's also been evident that they wanted Kumerow more involved on offense but he's been hurt. They signed Crowder, he's been hurt. Shakir has had some moments but they bring the rookies along slowly. They're finally getting Knox going in the pass game more. I just assumed with only Diggs, Davis, McKenzie, and Shakir out there that they'd line up guys like Knox, Cook, and Hines to make up for it. 

 

All that said, if the WR class is another solid group maybe they ought dip into that pool within the first two or three rounds. Allen is the only first round offensive player the McBeane Era has ever drafted. Seems like they don't like using their first rounders on anything but a QB, or all three levels of defense. Just how they prioritize I guess. 

[Draconator]

26 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Wow. One example. Good one. You got me…👍

Josh Allen via draft

Gabe Davis via draft

Himes via trade

Singletary via draft

Knox via draft

 

It's not that hard if you use your brain, but I see you're lacking in that department.

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Draconator said:

Josh Allen via draft

Gabe Davis via draft

Himes via trade

Singletary via draft

Knox via draft

 

It's not that hard if you use your brain, but I see you're lacking in that department.

Of all those guys…how many are first rounders?  Then while you are at it, please list all the firsts or seconds spent on defense. 

[Draconator]

2 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Of all those guys…how many are first rounders?  Then while you are at it, please list all the firsts or seconds spent on defense. 

What has been our record? 

 

And while we're at it? Where was a 7 time Super Bowl winning QB drafted? 

 

I'll even allow you to Google that.