Poorly constructed roster

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, MPL said:

Keith Ellison was just ahead of his time! He'd be a star in today's NFL! lol

i see your Ellison and raise you Aaron Maybin!  11 overall pick. 1 career start… ONE! 

[Tanoros]

18 minutes ago, Logic said:

I just don't understand how people are so completely unable to levy fair and reasonable criticisms at the team while also maintaining perspective. It HAS to be over the top exaggeration, hyperbole, and...whatever the heck the OP is.

Like...yeah...it hasn't been a banner few weeks. We can all see that the team isn't playing up to its capabilities.

Still, like Gugny points out, the Bills are 7-3, one game out of the AFC 1-seed, and are top five in offense, defense, and overall DVOA.

They've been to the playoffs four out of five seasons. NFL analysts and fans pretty much universally agree that Beane is a very good GM, McDermott is a very good coach, and the Bills have one of the best rosters in the league.

Say you're upset with how the team has been playing. Say you wish they had blown out the Browns yesterday. But for the love of god, quit with the "fire Frazier!", "Fire McDermott!", "the roster stinks!" posts. It's just silly and reactionary, not to mention completely divorced from reality.

THANK X A MILLION! Too many are complaining about the sky falling, but their opinions are purely emotional and have no bearing on reality. I think these people want us to be like the Chiefs week in and week out, if not, the sky is falling. 

[BruceVilanch]

21 minutes ago, Logic said:

I just don't understand how people are so completely unable to levy fair and reasonable criticisms at the team while also maintaining perspective. It HAS to be over the top exaggeration, hyperbole, and...whatever the heck the OP is.

Like...yeah...it hasn't been a banner few weeks. We can all see that the team isn't playing up to its capabilities.

Still, like Gugny points out, the Bills are 7-3, one game out of the AFC 1-seed, and are top five in offense, defense, and overall DVOA.

They've been to the playoffs four out of five seasons. NFL analysts and fans pretty much universally agree that Beane is a very good GM, McDermott is a very good coach, and the Bills have one of the best rosters in the league.

Say you're upset with how the team has been playing. Say you wish they had blown out the Browns yesterday. But for the love of god, quit with the "fire Frazier!", "Fire McDermott!", "the roster stinks!" posts. It's just silly and reactionary, not to mention completely divorced from reality.

We had people asking about drafting a QB during the GD thread. I can get down about this team, and this team can be crazy frustrating, but when you look around the league it's pretty clear we have a very good team. 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

It almost seems like many fans here didn’t live through the decades where the starters weren’t as good as other teams back ups at most positions. 

 

 

When was that?   The Bills have had a handful of years where they have been truly lousy in the past 35 years.   They were usually mediocre when they were not good.  You aren't mediocre playing with starters that couldn't be reserves on "other teams".     It's like you "didn't live thru" making the playoffs 10 times in 12 years with one of the best rosters in football. 

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Yes, they figured Davis would take another step forward.  Based on his play last season, that seemed like a prudent bet.  It hasn't worked out as well as we would have hoped.

 

You seem to be forgetting that they signed Jamison Crowder -- seemed like a solid signing at the time -- and drafted Shakir.  It's not like they ignored the position in the offseason or anything.  It's just that the guy they signed to play the slot got hurt in camp and never really recovered, and they've brought Shakir along very slowly.  My guess is they probably had plans for Cook in the slot and haven't felt comfortable opening that part of the playbook up yet.  

 

What did you want them to do?  Go and get Davante Adams?  Pick a WR early in the draft instead of a CB, which we desperately needed?  Tell us what your offseason plan was.

 

I don't want to appear to support the OP's post, but I think it's pretty inarguable that the Bills haven't done enough to bolster the offense.

 

In Carolina, the philosophy seemed to be that Cam Newton would make up for inadequacies at WR and on OL, and that seems to have continued here.

 

I understand the Bills drafting Kaiir Elam in the first round when they didn't know when Tre would be back and what his play would be like.  Groot in the 1st round in 2021 also looks like a win.

 

I think a number of us look at the 2nd and 3rd round picks in the last 2 drafts and wonder if double-dipping at DE (last year) and drafting an RB for the 3rd time in 3 years and an undersized LB (this year) was the best use of those picks vs. WR or OL.

[BuffaninSarasota]

OP, I'm guessing if you were GM of the Bills you'd have no salary cap and unlimited budget to work with, correct?

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

Let's see...

Bills are ranked 2nd in YPG and 2nd PPG on offense. They are ranked 3rd in passing yards per game.

The Bills began the season as odds-on Super Bowl favorites and, even after their unimpressive recent stretch are, let me check...STILL odds-on Super Bowl favorites.

Certainly not the doom and gloom apocalypse you foretold.

Hope you're having a nice Monday, my friend.

 

 

 

No, I've been very consistent in my takes that the Bills might be able to muscle their way to a SB win because they have the deepest and most invested-in defense in the NFL.

 

But I consistently pointed out that the achilles heel of the team was their declining WR position.

 

You and @eball were among the group that insisted that the Bills were great at WR and that suggestions otherwise were not only wrong but just absurd.

 

Those take looks pretty stupid now.  

 

Allen has imposed his will offensively this season..........but it hasn't been pretty.......he's beat up and has looked diminished as a passer after taking a lot of physical punishment........and they are once again trailing in their division late in the season when they were a prohibitive favorite.    Being the 5th seed right now is OK..........but we all know that expectations were much higher.

 

 

 

[Chaos]

54 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

Every fan thinks that he could do a better job than the GM and HC. “Hey, I built a championship fantasy team and coached my kids little league team to 10 wins! How hard could it be?”

no one is saying its not hard. these guys get paid millions to be the best at it.  It is reasonable to say that the Chiefs are better than the Bills during Beane's era

 

1. This means the chiefs have better talent or
2. the chiefs have better coaching or
3. the have chiefs have better coachiing and talent.

Beanes options are too stand pat with the strategy and be the chiefs second fiddle (like the colts to the patriots or the raiders to the steel curtain steelers) or make moves to have better talent and/or better coaching than the chiefs. 

Second best in the AFC is pretty good.  Puts us ahead of 14 teams (although several would dispute we are second best).   I think calling the second best Roster/Coaching combo "poorly constructed" is a bit of an over statement.  It is hard to say it is the best however. 
 

 

[FilthyBeast]

1 hour ago, Niagara Dude said:

I am starting to see roster that is poorly constructed and not enough quality depth at key positions. You watch KC who lost Hill and Mahomes still has numerous options at the WR position beyond just Kelce( they had two starters out and still did not miss a beat). We lost vets like Beasley and Sanders and assumed Davis would take another leap,  they then proceeded to go with mediocre guys after that.  

 

Davis cannot be trusted not to drop balls and McKENZIE looks like he cannot be trusted and accident waiting to happen. Even when Josh has time,  teams are just doubling Diggs and others are not creating enough separation.  How many times when teams played zone would we see Beasley find a sport in the zone for an easy pitch & catch in previous years. For a team that throws first,  the WR has become a weakness beyond Diggs.  On the other side of the ball the Bills are paying Matakevich 3.25 million for his special teams,  anyone recall any Steve Tasker level plays for this guy.  Or why is Taiwan Jones still on this team?  Both guy are making more then our 3rd LB Tyrel Dodson who looks terrible playing for injured Edmunds. It's a reason why even when team are running in down our throats we still have only 2 LB'S in the game.

 

We have zero quality depth at the LB position right now and are lucky Milano is healthy and playing like an all pro. How you spend your money is so important and using 4.3 mllion in cap space for Jones and Matakevich is costing us from having better quality depth at regular positions. Yes I believe that money could have been used to have a more competent 3rd receiver ( maybe even Beasley) or a starting level LB who you play on special teams.  Josh needs to be surrounded with better WR's  just like Mahomes has and our defence needs more than two starting level LB'S when teams start to just run the ball

 

I also believe Bills need to stop playing EJ. Epensa over Shaq Lawson,  this looks like Beane forcing Cody Ford on the field because he was a second rounder.  Epensa looks like a second bust but continues to play because of his draft status.  Lawson makes more big plays on far less opportunities 

 

 

 

I couldn't agree more with this.

 

The Bills went out and built a team that can beat the Chiefs which is great in theory if they can actually do it when it matters in the postseason, but overall this smallish defense built to defend the pass has failed miserably in that area and for all the hype about the alleged depth Beane has built that's proving to be further from the truth outside of the dline which I still think struggles to get a consistent pass rush.

 

Also at WR, we still have one guy with a bunch of #3 and #4 players around him. This offensive line might be the worst yet under this regime despite bringing in a new position coach. And can't argue with ST assessment either since this team loves to follow that Jauron blueprint of collecting ST only players and paying them big money.

 

Assuming this coaching staff is still intact next year they are going to have a big challenge fixing all the holes this current roster has given the cap situation which is also something that needs to be considered if there is any remote possibility of a regime change that would have to retool the roster under new offensive/defensive schemes.

[Logic]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Allen has imposed his will offensively this season..........but it hasn't been pretty.......he's beat up and has looked diminished as a passer after taking a lot of physical punishment........and they are once again trailing in their division late in the season when they were a prohibitive favorite.    Being the 5th seed right now is OK..........but we all know that expectations were much higher.

 

 

 

If there is a physical reason for Allen looking diminished as a passer, I would suggest that that reason is his injured right elbow, which happened on ONE play, where his protection -- not the receiver depth chart -- was the issue.

To blame "taking a lot of physical punishment" for his poor play instead of the specific issue of his injured elbow and recent stretch of poor decision making seems like a leap. And either way -- whether the elbow is to blame or whether, as you say, "taking a lot of physical punishment" is the issue, claiming that the wide receiver depth chart is the primary reason is also a bit of a leap.

I'd suggest that poor pass blocking and defenses catching up to Ken Dorsey's offensive playcalling are as much to blame -- if not more so -- for the offensive regression as the wide receiver depth chart.

I DO agree that the Bills need help at receiver, but it's in the slot where I feel they need help, not on the outside. Wasn't it the depth at outside receiver that you were harping on all summer? Yes, I thought that Shakir and McKenzie would get the job done inside. No, to this point, that has not been the case.

In any case, I do agree that the expectations were, are, and should be much higher, and the Bills are not meeting them. But to claim that lack of receiving talent is the primary reason for their recent offensive shortcomings doesn't do it for me. 

 

20 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

 

I couldn't agree more with this.

 

I am shocked. Shocked, I say!

Edited November 21, 2022 by Logic

[BillsShredder83]

The goal is to win a Super Bowl? When do we get the moral gold standard parade, because we couldn't wait to ditch Cole. Retired or not there's no way we couldn't have got more out of Cole than we are McK. An offense he knew, had a rapport and chemistry with Josh. I'll never understand the ppl who were so excited to run our own Welker Jr out of town. 

 

We passed on DK 2.0 in Christian Watson, and George Pickens looked polished coming out of the draft. It's unfortunate, I understand why we did what we did, but either one of these guys would've done more for us than Elam (no knock on him, I think he's going to be really good).

 

Next year's draft needs to be 75% offense, especially at the top of the board. Would love to see us move up to draft Jordan Addison. 

 

In 2022 NFL WRs are arguably the 2nd or 3rd most important position in football, and we throw more than almost everyone, so the cost is justified. Especially once you take into acct the price tag of trying to sign a FA. Would love to see us grab 2 WRs and an OL in the first few rounds. 

 

It's easier to stoke the fires on offense, than it is to pile picks on the defensive side. Def picks are already a diminished return investment in this league.

 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't want to appear to support the OP's post, but I think it's pretty inarguable that the Bills haven't done enough to bolster the offense.

 

In Carolina, the philosophy seemed to be that Cam Newton would make up for inadequacies at WR and on OL, and that seems to have continued here.

 

I understand the Bills drafting Kaiir Elam in the first round when they didn't know when Tre would be back and what his play would be like.  Groot in the 1st round in 2021 also looks like a win.

 

I think a number of us look at the 2nd and 3rd round picks in the last 2 drafts and wonder if double-dipping at DE (last year) and drafting an RB for the 3rd time in 3 years and an undersized LB (this year) was the best use of those picks vs. WR or OL.

The Bernard pick was puzzling when we did it, and even more-so now.  
 

I don’t know what he does.. or projects to do, on this defense.  
 

Id be shocked if we don’t lock down Edmunds now, and Bernard isn’t an Edmunds replacement anyway… so what is he?  Milano’s backup for 4 years?  That’s what we used a 3rd round pick on when we clearly could’ve used OL or WR help?

[transient]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Yes, they figured Davis would take another step forward.  Based on his play last season, that seemed like a prudent bet.  It hasn't worked out as well as we would have hoped.

 

You seem to be forgetting that they signed Jamison Crowder -- seemed like a solid signing at the time -- and drafted Shakir.  It's not like they ignored the position in the offseason or anything.  It's just that the guy they signed to play the slot got hurt in camp and never really recovered, and they've brought Shakir along very slowly.  My guess is they probably had plans for Cook in the slot and haven't felt comfortable opening that part of the playbook up yet.  

 

What did you want them to do?  Go and get Davante Adams?  Pick a WR early in the draft instead of a CB, which we desperately needed?  Tell us what your offseason plan was.

He broke his ankle. It's unclear if he'll be back this season or not.

 

[JerseyBills]

We've been riddled by injuries to our stars and are 7-3

We have a very deep roster and beat KC

[ColoradoBills]

I swear if you gave a piece of rope to some of the people on this board, they would think they're a cowboy.

[machine gun kelly]

2 hours ago, Fallser said:

I don't know what's in the Niagara River, but this dude needs to lay off drinking it. 

I thought he was having a couple of drinks at Love Canal!  Glowing are ya.

[poblano]

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

 a starting level LB who you play on special teams.  

This is pure and simply genius . . .

 

😄😄😄😄😄

 

And the perfect example why your premise  goes futile word after word

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Davis has had drops but he has also made some amazing plays.  If you think that teams have depth all over the place you are just wrong. Look no further than your example of KC. They lost both starting OTs in the playoffs a couple years ago and that cost them a SuperBowl.  Look what Buffalo did to KC secondary after Matheiu was hurt in the game. 

Virtually no team can withstand the injuries the Bills have and have the record they do.  Rejoice in the fact that we have Josh Allen and hope that his 2 and 1/2 game slump is over.    

 

The Davis hate here has reached new levels of idiocy.  He has 11 catches for 161 yards in the past 2 games.  He's going to double his yardage from last season, he's averaging 21.1 YPC.  21 of his 29 catches were for 1st downs (higher 1stD % than Diggs).  

[Matt_In_NH]

2021 the Bills averaged 262 pass yards per game and 2.1 TD passes per game

2022 The Bills average 294 pass yards per game and 2.1 TD passes per game.  32 yards per game more than last year.

 

Where is the big drop off?

[DCofNC]

2 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Yes, they figured Davis would take another step forward.  Based on his play last season, that seemed like a prudent bet.  It hasn't worked out as well as we would have hoped.

 

You seem to be forgetting that they signed Jamison Crowder -- seemed like a solid signing at the time -- and drafted Shakir.  It's not like they ignored the position in the offseason or anything.  It's just that the guy they signed to play the slot got hurt in camp and never really recovered, and they've brought Shakir along very slowly.  My guess is they probably had plans for Cook in the slot and haven't felt comfortable opening that part of the playbook up yet.  

 

What did you want them to do?  Go and get Davante Adams?  Pick a WR early in the draft instead of a CB, which we desperately needed?  Tell us what your offseason plan was.

they let 2 vets walk, guys that took $14M in salary last year and replaced them with 1 guy making 4M and a 5th round rookie.  So you didn’t ignore WR, but it’s clear your sure as hell didn’t look to improve it either.  They spent big this off-season, just not on the skill positions and it is showing.  I think it’s fair to say a WR could have been picked long before the 5th round.  For all the impact Cook has had, and the general lack of use for any RB on the team, it’s quite astonishing they have picked 3 running backs in the last 4 years and not a single WR earlier than any of those RBs.   I’ll go so far as to almost agree the with OP, I think this was a terrible offseason for Beane and I also don’t think he’s much of a drafter in general.  Without hitting on Allen, he and McClappy would not be in Buffalo at this point.  They swung on a boom or bust guy and hit, that’s awesome, but for the rest of it?  It’s not super impressive.  I know I’m going to get crap for it, but if people were honest, there’s no way you would look back at the Drafts under Beane and take the same guys at the same place on anybody outside of Allen.   He’s found some late round gems, but the first 4 rounds have not yielded much.