Poorly constructed roster

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I agree with you but I also think part of that is Reids offense.  He is amazing at scheming guys open and keeping the offense fresh.  I dont think he would have Davis running what amounts to basically just streaks if you look at his catch chart.

Of course. Reid is a HUGE part of it.  I was just trying to stay on thread topic. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

22 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

There are lot of bad takes in this thread but man you took it to a whole new level.

 

Davis is 20th among ALL receivers in yards (19th in yards/game), which means he produces MORE than 15 WR1 of other NFL teams. And that includes 2 games (Mia, Bal) where he was clearly not ok and had 31 yards combined. He has also 5 TDs which means shared 11th-18th position.

 

And you call him "a very good 4 or 5". No wonder that you deem this roster badly constructed.

You seem to equate being a #2 reciever with getting yards and TDs. A true #1 and #2 are so good you use them almost exclusively as a decoy. Davis has an issue staying healthy because of his style of play but when healthy he is good enough to set playoff records. 

[Process]

23 hours ago, No_Matter_What said:

There are lot of bad takes in this thread but man you took it to a whole new level.

 

Davis is 20th among ALL receivers in yards (19th in yards/game), which means he produces MORE than 15 WR1 of other NFL teams. And that includes 2 games (Mia, Bal) where he was clearly not ok and had 31 yards combined. He has also 5 TDs which means shared 11th-18th position.

 

And you call him "a very good 4 or 5". No wonder that you deem this roster badly constructed.

Being 20th in yards means very little. We are a pass heavy team with an elite QB that basically only has two WRs on the roster. There are a ton of WRs that have missed multiple games and/or are stuck in garbage offenses. 

 

Just going through the teams I would say probably half the teams in the league have two+ WRs better than Davis. He's probably an average #2 WR. 

 

Our lack of a slot receiver and depth are much bigger issues than Davis being the #2, no doubt. But he's not going to be worth the money he's gonna get next contract and it would be nice to upgrade anyways.

[SaulGoodman]

7 hours ago, NewEra said:

Kelce is elite.  I’m going to go out on a limb and say the guy you quoted was including Kelce as a WR.  He’s your #1-  take out both of our elite pass catchers, Diggs and Kelce, and KC has a much deeper and talented stable of receivers 
 

The rest of the guys- ALL are talented and better than all of our WRs not named Diggs and Davis- 

juju- is a good WR (2nd rd)

Hardman- is a big play playmaker.

Toney- was the 20th pick in the draft.

Moore- rookiewas a 2nd pick 

MVS- you. paid him 10M per 

watson-  he’s decent- much better WR then our 5th WR. 

 

5 talented WRs + Kelce 

 

the guys after Diggs and Davis 

- Mckenzie - 75% of Billsmfans don’t want to ever see him play again. 
-shakir-  can’t even beat out mckenzie but he has some upside.  

-kumerow- made the team as a ST teamer and is likely out for the year. 
-knox- our TE-  he’s better than average.  Has less than 1/2 the catches Kelce does, 1/3 of the yards and >1/5 of the TDs. 
 

the overall ability and depth of KCs WRs after each of our All Pro reciever.  BLOWS AWAY the Bills.  It’s not even close.  But you can be defensive if you like.  
 

same can be said for OL…..where we’ve invested next to nothing in protecting him and KC has done everything in its power to protect Mahomes.  
 

 

 

 

I thought he was focusing solely on WR. Adding Kelce obviously changes the picture dramatically. 
 

Every fan is more critical of his team’s players than outsiders tend to be. I see Davis as a very good #2 WR. One of the best. And I see Allen’s weapons as among the best in the league overall. And you guys apparently view MVS, Hardman and Moore fairly highly. Those guys have taken a lot of criticism from KC fans. Not Moore as much, since he’s a rookie in an offense that takes awhile to learn, but he’s mostly been a non-factor. 
 

As for the line, KC interior OL is really solid but the tackles aren’t great. Brown is average at best and Wylie is pretty bad. But overall it’s a pretty good line. 
 

I don’t follow Buffalo closely enough to have much of an opinion on their OL, but the pass protection generally seems pretty solid. They definitely  have a solid LT, which is most important.

Edited November 23, 2022 by SaulGoodman

[No_Matter_What]

1 hour ago, Process said:

Being 20th in yards means very little. We are a pass heavy team with an elite QB that basically only has two WRs on the roster. There are a ton of WRs that have missed multiple games and/or are stuck in garbage offenses. 

 

Just going through the teams I would say probably half the teams in the league have two+ WRs better than Davis. He's probably an average #2 WR. 

 

Our lack of a slot receiver and depth are much bigger issues than Davis being the #2, no doubt. But he's not going to be worth the money he's gonna get next contract and it would be nice to upgrade anyways.

No major argument from me. When I was quoting those stats, I didn't want to prove Davis is WR1. My point was that if you have WR1 stats, you can be WR1 or WR2, or maybe some lucky overachieving WR3 on crazy hotrun, but never "good WR4 or WR5".

 

To me he is a solid WR2, with WR1 potential but too inconsistent.

 

 

[Billsforumsucks]

On 11/21/2022 at 10:48 AM, 97bills said:

There’s some truth in that, and when compared to KC everyone needs to remember they have Andy Reid. A HOF coach who is great at scheming a offense. Just the yac those guys get is crazy. Allen has a first year guy calling plays, not that it matters Reid makes most offensive coordinators look silly. 

And has  one Super Bowl in 30 years, lol.

[97bills]

19 minutes ago, Flucod said:

And has  one Super Bowl in 30 years, lol.

And he’s not done yet. Hell I wish Buffalo had just one in my 30 years watching them. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, SaulGoodman said:

I thought he was focusing solely on WR. Adding Kelce obviously changes the picture dramatically. 
 

Every fan is more critical of his team’s players than outsiders tend to be. I see Davis as a very good #2 WR. One of the best. And I see Allen’s weapons as among the best in the league overall. And you guys apparently view MVS, Hardman and Moore fairly highly. Those guys have taken a lot of criticism from KC fans. Not Moore as much, since he’s a rookie in an offense that takes awhile to learn, but he’s mostly been a non-factor. 
 

As for the line, KC interior OL is really solid but the tackles aren’t great. Brown is average at best and Wylie is pretty bad. But overall it’s a pretty good line. 
 

I don’t follow Buffalo closely enough to have much of an opinion on their OL, but the pass protection generally seems pretty solid. They definitely  have a solid LT, which is most important.

Beyond Diggs who would put us among the best?  Just because the talking heads on tv rave about our weapons?  They have no clue.  
 

Davis leads the league in drops while having significantly less targets than the other the other guys up top.  I don’t know where his catch% is but  Pat friermuth is 100th in the league @ 67%. Davis is 53%.  I love Mckenzie…..but he has folded under the pressure of being our slot guy.  He’s not good at all.  Shakir has talent, but can’t dethrone Mckenzie. Knox is a solid TE, but he’s about average, top 10-15.  
 

i get what you’re saying, but KC has MUCH more invested in the offense when compared to us. We’ve invested MUCH more on D than you have.  This is a fact.

[BillsVet]

Roster construction is effectively over this season (cue the OBJ reference) so the issue is now moot for 2022.  

 

Josh's contract kicking in for 2023 and the cap used on defense is going to be something to watch this off-season.  Teams with a big QB cap hit cannot spend ~50% of their cap on defense and maintain a solid offense.  The draft has never meant more to them as being solid in rounds 2-4 will be more crucial to replace the talent they can't afford to re-sign.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SCBills]

What’s wild is that outside Diggs, our RB room is now more exciting than our WR’s.   Go figure. 
 

Davis is a weapon on a team with a functioning #2 target that’s not him.  If we ever figure out how to use Knox, perhaps that opens up Davis to be the big play threat game in / game out.  What he is not showing to be is a #2.. way too inconsistent. 

Our slot production went from being one of the tops in the league with Cole Beasley to nonexistent.  
 

Someone needs to step up out of Knox, McKenzie and Shakir to be a top tier target.  Knox is more about target share … as in, get him more.   McKenzie I don’t trust at all anymore and Shakir is just a mystery that I don’t care to try to figure out anymore. 

[97bills]

On 11/21/2022 at 5:28 PM, SCBills said:

I think our OL is ok.  Truth is, most teams don’t have strong OL’s.  Chiefs spent, Chargers spent, Bengals spent … are there lines any better than ours?  
 

I think James Cook is legit, and it’s about time the staff started using him.   Singletary is solid.  We traded for Hines. It’s up to Dorsey to use them correctly, but that’s a talented backfield. 
 

Knox is much better than this offense has given him credit for.  Let’s hope yesterday was a start.  
 

WR’s… swing and a miss.   Beane bet on Davis to become a high level 2, McKenzie to be a contributor and Crowder to be a rotational slot / slot insurance.   0 for 3 there, at least so far.   Nevermind the fact we came into the season short handed at the position with no outside WR3 in a pass heavy offense.   Just bizarre asset allocation with this unit. 
 

And I hate to even type this but if diggs goes down for 3 games we’re done. And that’s not a good spot to be in. 

[Mango]

20 hours ago, SaulGoodman said:

As a KC fan, this notion seems ridiculous to me. 
 

Kelce, of course, is a great TE, but KC is very thin at WR right now. The WR who played the most snaps in LA was Justin Watson. Most of you had probably never heard his name before this year. He didn’t even play when he was with Tampa. 2nd most snaps went to MVS, and then Skyy Moore (who had barely been involved in the offense this year and has had a bit of a rough transition to the NFL). The rest of the WR corps were practice squad guys. 
 

Even when healthy, KC’s WR corps is average at best, and obviously way below the Bills WRs. 
 

Once you sign your QB to the big contract you get your Diggs/Kelce and maybe another weapon if you’re lucky.

 

Otherwise the expectation is that the QB starts to make the WR’s. 

4 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

You seem to equate being a #2 reciever with getting yards and TDs. A true #1 and #2 are so good you use them almost exclusively as a decoy. Davis has an issue staying healthy because of his style of play but when healthy he is good enough to set playoff records. 

I’m sorry what. 
 

[SaulGoodman]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Beyond Diggs who would put us among the best?  Just because the talking heads on tv rave about our weapons?  They have no clue.  
 

Davis leads the league in drops while having significantly less targets than the other the other guys up top.  I don’t know where his catch% is but  Pat friermuth is 100th in the league @ 67%. Davis is 53%.  I love Mckenzie…..but he has folded under the pressure of being our slot guy.  He’s not good at all.  Shakir has talent, but can’t dethrone Mckenzie. Knox is a solid TE, but he’s about average, top 10-15.  
 

i get what you’re saying, but KC has MUCH more invested in the offense when compared to us. We’ve invested MUCH more on D than you have.  This is a fact.

I don’t see every Bills game, so I probably miss the inconsistency that everybody talks about with Davis. I do see that his numbers are up and down, but it’s the same for every KC WR. He’s still top 20 I think in yards and has several TDs. 
 

His drop total is pretty bad based on the number of targets, but I think the good outweighs the bad. Hill had a problem with drops last year too. He may not have dropped balls at the same rate, but when he did, it was a killer. Numerous times he managed to bobble a good pass directly into the hands of a DB, including the last offensive play in the AFCC. It cost them another SB appearance. The good obviously still outweighed the bad, but I think the same’s true for Davis. He probably won’t keep that pace. 
 

To me, there aren’t many teams with a significantly better trio of weapons than Diggs/Davis/Knox. As some have said, Allen just doesn’t seem to prefer to throw to TEs. 
 

KC may have a deeper set of weapons, but I’d take the Bills’ top 3 over KC’s top three. I honestly don’t even know who the third weapon is after Kelce and JJSS. Toney’s too new to the offense and is already injured, and the rest are inconsistent or just not that productive. 

[NewEra]

29 minutes ago, SaulGoodman said:

I don’t see every Bills game, so I probably miss the inconsistency that everybody talks about with Davis. I do see that his numbers are up and down, but it’s the same for every KC WR. He’s still top 20 I think in yards and has several TDs. 
 

His drop total is pretty bad based on the number of targets, but I think the good outweighs the bad. Hill had a problem with drops last year too. He may not have dropped balls at the same rate, but when he did, it was a killer. Numerous times he managed to bobble a good pass directly into the hands of a DB, including the last offensive play in the AFCC. It cost them another SB appearance. The good obviously still outweighed the bad, but I think the same’s true for Davis. He probably won’t keep that pace. 
 

To me, there aren’t many teams with a significantly better trio of weapons than Diggs/Davis/Knox. As some have said, Allen just doesn’t seem to prefer to throw to TEs. 
 

KC may have a deeper set of weapons, but I’d take the Bills’ top 3 over KC’s top three. I honestly don’t even know who the third weapon is after Kelce and JJSS. Toney’s too new to the offense and is already injured, and the rest are inconsistent or just not that productive. 

Good post.  I’d take our top 3 too.  Problem being, injuries.  Davis is often injured and that’s where our lack of depth comes into play.  
 

You guys lose hardman and juju, then toney to open the game and Watson and moore catch 8 of 10 for 130 to compliment Kelces 6-115-3 TDs.  If the bills lost their top 3 WRs….lol.  McKenzie, Shakir and…..Tanner Gentry would be the remaining options.  
 

in your defense, I was happy when I saw you signed MVS.  He’s so terribly inconsistent.  Rodgers got the best out of his ability.  If Mahomes can’t get some use out of him, he’ll never be an asset to anyone.  

[Orlando Buffalo]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Once you sign your QB to the big contract you get your Diggs/Kelce and maybe another weapon if you’re lucky.

 

Otherwise the expectation is that the QB starts to make the WR’s. 

I’m sorry what. 
 

It was sarcasm- I thought it was obvious. I am mocking people who think a good #4 reciever could be a top 20 stat guy 

[Eastport bills]

19 hours ago, cwater10 said:

And the Bills team that beat KC this year had none of them except Poyer, who drove himself to the game to protect an injured lung.  They were also missing White in this year's win.  If you think this team has no secondary depth, I think you have a jaundiced view.  Their secondary depth been a nice surprise and is a primary reason their Super Bowl dreams remain alive.  Benford, Elam, Hamlin and Dane Jackson have all played above expectations.  Wallace, who you have cited for being a missed contributor was a primary culprit in 13 seconds.  He was not alone, but he played a major role in that debacle.  Would you have felt better if they had spent 5 million to retain him?  Benford, Jackson and Elam are all upgrades over Wallace in my opinion.  

 

And this is a thread regarding roster composition.  Did you expect to be without 2 All Pro Safety for all (Hyde) and half (Power) of the season?  How much salary cap were you ready to devote to that longshot?  Did you expect Tre White to still be on the sideline heading into week 12?  I didn't.  And then they were left without Dane Jackson for a 2 and a half games after he was nearly decapitated by a teammate.  What they do have in depth, has performed as well as anyone could reasonably hope for in that doomsday scenario.  

 

And of course your confidence slides when either or both of Buffalo's all star caliber linebackers are out.  Do you expect no drop-off?  Sorry but that is not a flawed roster, nor does it indicate lack of depth.  That is a horrible run of injuries that would stretch any team's defensive depth.  Let the season play out.  What was it Marv used to say about adversity?  "Adversity does not build character, it reveals character."  This team, this roster has an abundance of talent, depth and character.

We will see how the depth in the secondary, receivers and O-line work out. I guess for most of the games left on the schedule, we can gut it out( Lions, Jets, Pats) but Cinn and Miami will be tricky.