White, Edmunds and Rousseau - OUT

[Pete]

Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said:

But unlike regular people, NFL players have the best surgeons performing the operations, and round the clock physical therapy and imaging.

 

This isn’t Tre limping around One Bills Drive. 

sure, and they have to get up to speed to play world class athletes.  It's a little different walking without a limp after tearing your ACL.  Its another to have to match up against Jefferson, Chase, Tyreek.

Right now Benford, Elam, etc have been getting lots of experience.  That will benefit the Bills this season and next.

Put Tre out before he is ready- let him get burned time and time again by world class athletes in peak shape(ie not rehabbing from major knee injury)- that would destroy his confidence and swag.

I want a healthy Tre helping us win a Superbowl.  Not to rush him back before he is ready.  That is myopic

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, NoSaint said:

ACL injuries aren’t 2 year issues in the modern nfl unless something was catastrophically wrong out of the gate. Sure you might see a hammy or some cleanup but this is becoming noteworthy in its unique handling. 
 

frankly, it seemed the team doctors thought he might’ve been back 6 weeks ago when debating how to list him back at Labor Day 

It has been 11 months since his surgery, which occurred on Dec 14, 2022.

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

You did read the post I was replying to noting letting him be ready for next year? That would be 22 months from injury to return. To even suggest writing off the rest of this year would indeed be incredibly noteworthy.

I literally didn’t say that. Like, at all. C’mon, NoSaint. I was discussing coming back to early. Maybe he’s fine by mid-December, which would be great. But I have no idea when he’ll be ready.

Edited November 19, 2022 by dave mcbride

[dave mcbride]

9 hours ago, RiotAct said:

oh no, we’re writing off next year already as well???

Read what I wrote. Jeez. Not what I said at all. I want him for the LONG TERM, not a guy hobbling through injuries in 2023 who gets cut in training camp in summer 2024. Hence I projected forward.

Edited November 19, 2022 by dave mcbride

[newcam2012]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Yeah, that's basically right as I understand it too.  Had they shelved him for 4 additional games, he could NOT participate in practice at all.  Presumably, they want him to be able to practice before playing, so they went this route.

That all makes perfect sense.  Here's the rub!  Explaining all that would have taken McDermott 5 seconds at any one of these recent press conferences where the theme has been "what's going on with Tre?"

 

All he had to do is explain what you/I have just referenced, and explained that the team wants to ramp Tre up  a bit at a time before he hits the ground running in a real game.

 

AND YET HE HAS NOT DONE THAT!  NOTHING!  Instead, he's staying tight lipped, saying some odd things, and letting people grow their own suspicions as to what's happening for real.

Which is I why I said up-thread I think there is basically some type of psychological issue going on with Tre and they just don't want to talk about that.

 

It's like the Bills know he is medically OK, they think he is "ready" to go with practicing and reps, but yet Tre doesn't want to play, so he doesn't play.

 

In fact, he was designated "OUT" as of Friday!  The last few games they didn't do that; it was more a game time decision to scratch him.

 

SO he's a healthy scratch yet again as of a Friday before a Sunday game.

What's going on here?

 

 

Nice post. Be careful some posters might call you out as a bafoon for acting like you know what's going on. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Nice post. Be careful some posters might call you out as a bafoon for acting like you know what's going on. 

Oh, for chrissake

[Paup 1995MVP]

On 11/18/2022 at 11:01 AM, Straight Hucklebuck said:

No idea what is going on with Tre White. 

 

Our media asks snowball soft questions, but I hope they start digging into this. 

 

We've played 1/2 strength in the secondary all year. 

 

 

Exactly Hucklebuck.  We could not cover Jefferson last week.  Safety has been a big problem this year.  And corner has been decent but inconsistent.  Through the summer and training camp the question seemed to be whether Tre White would be ready for the season.  Now here we are in week 11 and he is still not playing, although he is supposedly practicing, and we the fan base are pretty perplexed by the situation and the vagueness which McDermott talks about it.  

 

If White isn't playing against the Pats after the Thanksgiving game which would be our 12th game, I would not expect him to play the rest of the year. 

[BADOLBILZ]

14 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Players talk and have access to data. Coming back too soon from an acl tear can really lead to problems with your other leg because you’re favoring one side. One of my closest friends is an elite marathoner and a minor calf injury on one side that she “played through” created a chronic hip injury on the other side. Her orthopedist walked her through how this happens and it’s basically science. If he’s not ready, he’s not ready. I want him starting for us at a high level in 2024 and 2025 rather than dealing with a chronic and debilitating injuries in his other leg because he came back too early. This is a real thing and the science is out there. He’s not one to dog it.

 

 

I think it's actually myopic to be fine with your best defensive player throwing away a prime year in a SB window to worry about years 8 and 9(2024-2025).    He's a CB.   And he ain't a freak athlete like Patrick Peterson.   Year 8 or 9 might not be high level CB play anyway.   Might be safety time by then.     

 

White might not be "one to dog it" but he also nearly made the decision to opt out last year..........which was made by very few NFL players and some of them were dogass players like Star Lotulelei who really didn't want to play anyway.  

 

His commitment to winning might be less than ideal from the perceived best player on your defense if you want to get home field and win a SB.   That can be true without being "one to dog it" which implies no commitment.

[Rico]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think it's actually myopic to be fine with your best defensive player throwing away a prime year in a SB window to worry about years 8 and 9(2024-2025).    He's a CB.   And he ain't a freak athlete like Patrick Peterson.   Year 8 or 9 might not be high level CB play anyway.   Might be safety time by then.     

 

White might not be "one to dog it" but he also nearly made the decision to opt out last year..........which was made by very few NFL players and some of them were dogass players like Star Lotulelei who really didn't want to play anyway.  

 

His commitment to winning might be less than ideal from the perceived best player on your defense if you want to get home field and win a SB.   That can be true without being "one to dog it" which implies no commitment.

Nice post, Of all the Bills' top-level stars, Tre White is by far my least favorite. Not to say I didn't appreciate him back when he was playing, but he's just meh to me.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Nice post. Be careful some posters might call you out as a bafoon for acting like you know what's going on. 

Be careful posting something on a message board….someone might not like what you said and call you a buffoon!  
 

soft

[BADOLBILZ]

21 minutes ago, Rico said:

Nice post, Of all the Bills' top-level stars, Tre White is by far my least favorite. Not to say I didn't appreciate him back when he was playing, but he's just meh to me.

 

 

I was sold on him as the top CB in the 2017 draft but I knew he didn't have the wheels to run with the fastest WR's and scheme fit would matter.   So there has always been a little over-hype on him.   An island, he is not.   He's class valedictorian smart though so he has excelled in the Bills cerebral pass defense.   Those kinda' smarts can also lead to players making personal decisions about playing that really hurt the team.   I'm not worrying about year 8 or 9 with him because he could pull a Patrick Willis by then.   If you aren't compelled to get back on the field...... you are a wild card.

[dave mcbride]

40 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I think it's actually myopic to be fine with your best defensive player throwing away a prime year in a SB window to worry about years 8 and 9(2024-2025).    He's a CB.   And he ain't a freak athlete like Patrick Peterson.   Year 8 or 9 might not be high level CB play anyway.   Might be safety time by then.     

 

White might not be "one to dog it" but he also nearly made the decision to opt out last year..........which was made by very few NFL players and some of them were dogass players like Star Lotulelei who really didn't want to play anyway.  

 

His commitment to winning might be less than ideal from the perceived best player on your defense if you want to get home field and win a SB.   That can be true without being "one to dog it" which implies no commitment.

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. My larger point is that he is 11 months out from surgery and no one on this site has the remotest of clues of what the knee situation is really like. People think that they do (based on nothing), but they don’t. He’ll return eventually and hopefully he’ll remain healthy for a long time. As for him considering opting out, the funny thing is that he didn’t.

[MJS]

9 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

Yeah, that's basically right as I understand it too.  Had they shelved him for 4 additional games, he could NOT participate in practice at all.  Presumably, they want him to be able to practice before playing, so they went this route.

That all makes perfect sense.  Here's the rub!  Explaining all that would have taken McDermott 5 seconds at any one of these recent press conferences where the theme has been "what's going on with Tre?"

 

All he had to do is explain what you/I have just referenced, and explained that the team wants to ramp Tre up  a bit at a time before he hits the ground running in a real game.

 

AND YET HE HAS NOT DONE THAT!  NOTHING!  Instead, he's staying tight lipped, saying some odd things, and letting people grow their own suspicions as to what's happening for real.

Which is I why I said up-thread I think there is basically some type of psychological issue going on with Tre and they just don't want to talk about that.

 

It's like the Bills know he is medically OK, they think he is "ready" to go with practicing and reps, but yet Tre doesn't want to play, so he doesn't play.

 

In fact, he was designated "OUT" as of Friday!  The last few games they didn't do that; it was more a game time decision to scratch him.

 

SO he's a healthy scratch yet again as of a Friday before a Sunday game.

What's going on here?

Fans always believe they are entitled to information from the coach and the team. Fact is, they aren't. The coach doesn't have to tell you anything.

 

McDermott, and basically every single other coach, fulfills the minimum requirement of his media availability and then focuses the rest of his attention on the team and football.

 

It is very soft and entitled to be complaining that the coach is not giving you information, especially if you understand that coaches have a goal of providing as little information as possible to the media at all times.

 

If you don't like it, tough.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. My larger point is that he is 11 months out from surgery and no one on this site has the remotest of clues of what the knee situation is really like. People think that they do (based on nothing), but they don’t. He’ll return eventually and hopefully he’ll remain healthy for a long time. As for him considering opting out, the funny thing is that he didn’t.

 

 

No we don't know if his knee is still bad..........because he hasn't been forthcoming about that.  We just know the team says he's not injured any longer.    When times were good he craved attention and adoration.   Not really surprising that people are perplexed by being ghosted by him now.   If this were the QB I think there would be a lot less protesting/shaming about that from people though.   Even you would want answers.

 

I'm not desperate to get him back in the lineup like some.........he's not a cure all.......Tyreek Hill made him look like a UDFA in the 2020 AFCCG so it's not a given that he is going to change results of big games but I absolutely understand why people want answers if he's not going to play.    It's a business. 

[dave mcbride]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I was sold on him as the top CB in the 2017 draft but I knew he didn't have the wheels to run with the fastest WR's and scheme fit would matter.   So there has always been a little over-hype on him.   An island, he is not.   He's class valedictorian smart though so he has excelled in the Bills cerebral pass defense.   Those kinda' smarts can also lead to players making personal decisions about playing that really hurt the team.   I'm not worrying about year 8 or 9 with him because he could pull a Patrick Willis by then.   If you aren't compelled to get back on the field...... you are a wild card.

This is a good post. That said, I don’t begrudge anyone smarts!

[JaCrispy]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:39 AM, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

No Edmunds and facing Chubb.

 

It could be a long afternoon.

I actually think we might benefit 

[Nextmanup]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

no one on this site has the remotest of clues of what the knee situation is really like. People think that they do (based on nothing), but they don’t.

Not sure that is 100% true.  The way to read between the lines here is to listen to the things Tre has personally said during his rehab and listen to the now almost daily things McDermott says about his situation.

 

It would very easy for McDermott to say "Look, we went the route we did with him so it would be legal for him to practice with the team...he is medically cleared but he is NOT READY to play in a game.  We want to get him up to speed slowly in practice and when he is ready to go, you'll see him in a game."

And that would have KILLED the "controversy" about him before it started.

 

But McDermott has NOT SAID THAT.  Why not?  Instead, he has said things implying "NO no, we (the Bills coaching staff) think he is absolutely ready to play in the game, but he is going to be a healthy scratch...again."

 

He hasn't flat out said that either, but he's implied it.

 

Something fishy is going on.  Tre is going through some type of psychological/mental problem and McDermott just doesn't wasn't to address it publicly for whatever reason.

 

He could say it in a diplomatic way to let us know what's going on, without betraying any of Tre's confidence in the team.

 

How about McDermott simply saying "He's healthy; he's ready to play; but he's going through some mental things right now and he needs time to get through them.  Until he gets through this, he won't be playing in games.  The whole organization is right here with him to help him get through this."

 

How about that McDermott?

 

The whole thing is just SO FREAKING STUPID, like most NFL football related stuff.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

1 minute ago, Nextmanup said:

Not sure that is 100% true.  The way to read between the lines here is to listen to the things Tre has personally said during his rehab and listen to the now almost daily things McDermott says about his situation.

 

It would very easy for McDermott to say "Look, we went the route we did with him so it would be legal for him to practice with the team...he is medically cleared but he is NOT READY to play in a game.  We want to get him up to speed slowly in practice and when he is ready to go, you'll see him in a game."

And that would have KILLED the "controversy" about him before it started.

 

But McDermott has NOT SAID THAT.  Why not?  Instead, he has said things implying "NO no, we (the Bills coaching staff) think he is absolutely ready to play in the game, but he is going to be a healthy scratch...again."

 

He hasn't flat out said that either, but he's implied it.

 

Something fishy is going on.  Tre is going through some type of psychological/mental problem and McDermott just doesn't wasn't to address it publicly for whatever reason.

 

He could say it in a diplomatic way to let us know what's going on, without betraying any of Tre's confidence in the team.

 

How about McDermott simply saying "He's healthy; he's ready to play; but he's going through some mental things right now and he needs time to get through them.  Until he gets through this, he won't be playing in games.  The whole organization is right here with him to help him get through this."

 

How about that McDermott?

 

The whole thing is just SO FREAKING STUPID, like most NFL football related stuff.

 

 

McDermott is preternaturally averse to giving put ANY info about the nature of injuries, so I wouldn’t read too much into that. He is your classic paranoid NFL coach to a tee, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

[Nextmanup]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

McDermott is preternaturally averse to giving put ANY info about the nature of injuries, so I wouldn’t read too much into that. He is your classic paranoid NFL coach to a tee, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you.

OK chief, you have it figured out.

 

PS: I agree McDermott is a classic, conservative, football coach, but it's a BAD THING.

 

 

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

OK chief, you have it figured out.

 

PS: I agree McDermott is a classic, conservative, football coach, but it's a BAD THING.

 

 

I don’t have anything figured out. My point is that none of us do and that all of our speculation is basically idle. I don’t pretend to have any idea. As for McDermott, he is so vague and generic about injuries it’s hard to impute any specific meaning to what he says.

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

I don’t have anything figured out. My point is that none of us do and that all of our speculation is basically idle. I don’t pretend to have any idea. As for McDermott, he is so vague and generic about injuries it’s hard to impute any specific meaning to what he says.

 

Tre hasn't been limited in practice so I can infer that it isn't a physical issue keeping him off the field. McDermott says "he's not ready" so if it isn't physical readiness it must be mental readiness. I don't think I'm being speculative here. There is no other logical conclusion. And yeah I am frustrated if one of the stars and highest paid members of our team is sitting out because he's got the yips... Recovering from ACL injuries is fairly straightforward these days but every time we hear McDermott talking about it he sounds like he's talking at a funeral. You have to admit there's a weird vibe surrounding the whole thing.